Xixax Film Forum

does anyone by anyone have a text copy of Kevin Smith's all-too-infamous Magnolia review?  I've heard about it, left and right, but I've never red it and I wonder if any has it.

did you try www.ptanderson.com?  He tears it up.  Saying stuff like he keeps a copy of it to remind him not to do self-indulgent crap, blah, blah, blah.  Which is funy becuase all of his films seem like self-indulgent crap.

Kevin Smith ain't shit compared to P.T.  Smith is responsible for some of the worst movies ever made(???Strikes Back or whatever and i thought Dogma was stupid).  I don't give a shit what Smith has to say, especially about a brillant film like Magnolia.

Here's the thing.  Smith and Pereira were saying how pretentious Magnolia because it was 3 hours long and full of whip pans.  But wouldn't you agree Smith is tons more pretentious because of J&SBSB and his whole Askewniverse?  

I thought all the Magnoliafan stuff was a chuckle when I first say J&SBSB, but after watching Magnolia for the past week non-stop, I just gotta say that Smith can still be self-deprecating, but can't talk about pretentiousness.

as a fan of magnolia, i respect the fuck out of smith for saying this

and P.T.A Would respect him for it.

As he is also someone who has said how he feels and could give a fuck if it jars some people

and again magnolia really is one of those movies that only a small amount of people will get, that does not make them idiots

its just not his thing.

and every time i say that, i always have to stress that a lot of the people who say they love this film, do not get it in the least bit.

i have read reviews of magnolia that make zero sense what so ever, you can tell the writter is talking out of his ass .

because sadlly this film has become a popular name drop for phoneys to use .






but anyways the sad thing about this, this fight has made PTA Fans look like uptight douchebags, when in reality the douchebags amungst us are the ones that just say they like movie to make themselves look deep . The rest of us are not like this at all.

Well, I guess that's his own opinion.


Now I hope he gets hits by a truck, survives, only to burn to death on the way to the hospital when the ambulance crashes and blows up.

Quote from: mogwai posted what some dumb asshole wrote
MAGNOLIA is the worst kind of failure, because it's such a self-conscious, insincere attempt to be "meaningful" and "important", and it fails so badly because P.T. doesn't have his heart in any of it, and it shows.

:(

I admire Kevin Smith in some ways... but he was just trying to start shit with that Magnolia stuff. It was just cheap backbiting. Smith is an okay to mediocre filmmaker with a lot of half-baked dialectical dialogue that can work (Chasing Amy) or not (Dogma). He is by no means in any position to criticize something of Magnolia's breadth.

I will paraphrase something I read in Salon when it comes to a lot of what puts me off Smith: "The backlash against political correctness in the '90s, which anyone who believes in independent thought could appreciate, began to give rise to a new minority, a minority who couldn't wait to flood the airwaves and printing presses: Assholes. That's right- under the guise of beating back the mind police, people who have their own ugly right wing, misogynistic, dirty-little-boy, quasi-fascist attitudes to air are riding high, and have been for some time now. Political correctness is long dead, but don't ever tell that to the assholes- P.C. is their secret excuse for rants that in any other context would just seem stupid and small."

...I thought Chasing Amy was okay; it questioned all sides and transcended. It wasn't afraid to call liberal reflexes into question; I like that. I thought Jay and Silent Bob, on the other hand, was the worst kind of reactionary moron-pandering. Kevin Smith can be interesting, but he can also be so stupid and cheap and- worst of all- not funny, unless you're a very, very insecure 14-year-old boy.

Are we still doing this?

In some respects I agree with Smith. "If this is what rabid fans are like, then I don't want any." That rings true. Some people freak me out around here when it comes to Anderson. If I was him I would be crying in a corner when most of you people defend him. Opinion is opinion. You have yours, now fucking get over it. Same thing with the manner in which everyone around here wants to kill Brett Ratner. I mean, what the fuck?

That said, I do indeed find the comment made about Anderson not having his heart in the film as somewhat bewildering. I think that for all their flaws, be they few and far between as they are, the one thing they do not lack is heart.

I also found it weird that someone like Smith, or someone who is a fan of Smith, could attack putting too much heart and love into a picture, like that is a bad thing. After all, Chasing Amy is by far the best film Smith has made, and it runs on nothing but heart. Anyway, they are completely different filmmakers. One of them is a filmmaker raised on films, the other is a filmmaker raised on comic books. Comparing them is pretty fucking stupid in the first place. Not that anyone here did that. I'm just saying.

I'm struck by the quick dismissal of opinion from Smith.  Yes, everybody has one, but not everybody's justified.  That's the whole point.  Can you justify your opinion sensibly, as Smith failed to do?  When you fail to do that, it's invalidated.  And yes, this is art, it is subjective, no opinion is more right than another, so on and so on.  I disagree.  Art is subjective, and the point of justifying your opinion is to articulate how you feel about something, good or bad.  One opinion can become more "right" than another if it has some foundation.

Maybe so, but in this case, both sides [PTA fans and KS fans] were being as childish as each other, so they were about as "right" as each other too.

"Kevin Smith shits on PTA and makes him eat it! Magnolia sucks!"
"Nah! Kevin Smith just wants to be PTA! Magnolia rocks!"

Constructive stuff from either side of the fence there. Claiming that someone is a bad filmmaker does not make someone else a good filmmaker.

Quote from: mogwai

Quote from: polkabluesAre we still doing this?

Yes. There are Freudians popping up everywhere these days.

In my own defense: Just thank the sweet lord it's not Jungians.

Quote from: godardianIn my own defense: Just thank the sweet lord it's not Jungians.

If it helps... I like Freud, but I love Jung.

I'm trying to locate a post where Smith said maybe he was a bit too harsh on Magnolia, and he'd give it another chance.  First impressions aren't always the best, remember.  Let us not forget that PTA and Smith have mutually settled their differences, (as evidence I point out the Evening With Kevin Smith DVD) whether or not they like each others films is moot, they can at least respect one another on a different level.  This is an argument too old to be bringing up once again, I think, especially when neither has attacked the other since the incident began 2 years ago (?).

But Smith, unlike Anderson, memorialized his contempt on celluloid, which many, many more people will see than An Evening with Kevin Smith. He is also really the only one who slung mud; as far as I knew, Anderson kept himself nicely above it all. When it comes to playing with pigs (and getting dirty, you know the cliche), some people know better, and I've been happy to believe that Anderson was one of those...

This, for me, was not so much a matter of opinion as of decorum. I felt the same way about Camille Paglia (whom I think offers a great deal more than Kevin Smith) when she went on her inexplicable anti-Susan Sontag rampage last decade. It just makes public figures look bad when they decide to "go after" another public figure with an unwarranted voraciousness.

I really don't care if Kevin Smith doesn't like Magnolia, or what Anderson thinks of his films. I just think Smith behaved so poorly and with so little merit to his big opinion, it just looked like he was trying in some very un-savvy, juvenile way to stir up controversy, i.e. publicity, the cheap-tabloid way: By causing trouble for an innocent party.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman

Quote from: godardianIn my own defense: Just thank the sweet lord it's not Jungians.

If it helps... I like Freud, but I love Jung.

Like the archetype stuff, but the Freudian movement seems to have headed in a much more common-sense direction than the Jungians... couldn't have had one without the other, though. A little conflict can be a great motivator to push the ol' teachings forward.

I don't like mysticism, so I prefer Freud. I find him very applicable; demystifying and unsentimental.

Quote from: godardianI don't like mysticism

Oh c'mon. It's good for you.

"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul."

"Every psychic advance of man arises from the suffering of the soul."

I like Jungisms.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman

Quote from: godardianI don't like mysticism

Oh c'mon. It's good for you.

"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own soul."

"Every psychic advance of man arises from the suffering of the soul."

I like Jungisms.

Hmmm... quotes appreciated, but that's a lotta soul-talk for an agnostic like me.

Quote from: godardianthat's a lotta soul-talk for an agnostic like me.

As an agnostic, you should be open minded...

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman

Quote from: godardianthat's a lotta soul-talk for an agnostic like me.

As an agnostic, you should be open minded...

Oh, I am... I don't reject Jung or any "spiritually" inclined psychoanalytic or theological theory outright, as there's usually at least something of value... but neither do I fully accept any of it, especially what I feel are the overly mystical bits. Since Freud seems to be working on a less mystical plane, I feel his theories are more comprehensive and applicable to my life and the world around me. Not as pretty as Jung's, but they make more sense to me.

Quote from: mogwaiSo Freud, how about getting back to the topic?

Ah, touche...

... but since I wanna "do" neither PTA nor Kevin Smith, it's not really the same thing. What we're talking here proceeded organically from the topic, and I'm sure it will very leisurely and circuitously find its way back there eventually. I wasn't sure I wanted to know where the YYY thing was going... maybe that was a whole different thread. We should just have a whole topic called "pants-creamers," maybe, so our other threads don't devolve into these feverish onanistic things... not that there isn't a place or time for fevered onanism. I mean, we are talking about the fabled Internet, here.

Quote from: godardianWe should just have a whole topic called "pants-creamers," maybe, so our other threads don't devolve into these feverish onanistic things.

http://xixax.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=453

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: godardianWe should just have a whole topic called "pants-creamers," maybe, so our other threads don't devolve into these feverish onanistic things.

http://xixax.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=453

I checked it out... looks like an okay refuge for those who, when discussing the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, are suddenly distracted from the music and style of the band by an urgent impulse to discuss their desire to "do" the sex-goddess lead singer.

pateo ustedes en las pelotas

Sorry for resurrecting this post, but I couldn't resist.

Talk about Kevin Smith and the ole' "pot calling the kettle black".

In 2004, Kevin Smith will release Jersey Girl.

If I recall, didn't the original theatrical poster for this film have Jennifer Lopez on the front with Ben Affleck?

I'm sorta curious. Why did they change it?

:yabbse-wink:

Quote from: MyxomatosisSorry for resurrecting this post, but I couldn't resist.

Talk about Kevin Smith and the ole' "pot calling the kettle black".

In 2004, Kevin Smith will release Jersey Girl.

If I recall, didn't the original theatrical poster for this film have Jennifer Lopez on the front with Ben Affleck? The new poster looks like this.

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmiramax.com%2Fimages%2Fp_Jerseygirl.jpg&hash=69a2a182b17c97c33a4a10a76c4cf0f8125b57ae)

I'm sorta curious. Why did they change it?

:yabbse-wink:

that has been the only official poster released.

Quote from: SHAFTR

Quote from: MyxomatosisSorry for resurrecting this post, but I couldn't resist.

Talk about Kevin Smith and the ole' "pot calling the kettle black".

In 2004, Kevin Smith will release Jersey Girl.

If I recall, didn't the original theatrical poster for this film have Jennifer Lopez on the front with Ben Affleck? The new poster looks like this.

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmiramax.com%2Fimages%2Fp_Jerseygirl.jpg&hash=69a2a182b17c97c33a4a10a76c4cf0f8125b57ae)

I'm sorta curious. Why did they change it?

:yabbse-wink:

that has been the only official poster released.

Nope. There was another poster. I am sure of it. It might have been a teaser poster or something, but it was playing up the Bennifer relationship big time. When Gigli came out, suddenly I didn't see the poster in theaters anymore.

there was a poster at one time but it was not official and it had the kid, affleck, jlo, and liz.  by the way


http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=369

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mrflix.com%2Fcomingsoon%2Fjerseygirl_poster.jpg&hash=719c339ca26d1a1793a0dc6adc86886a3a885027)

they even had her name first and she's in it for like 15 mins
fucking people baffle me

Quote from: poserismsfucking people baffle me

if i wasn't so drunk on _______, this would be my motto

hhhhhhhahahahaha, JLO got top billing, now she's not even mentioned!  how's that for a change?!?

Quote from: MacGuffin(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mrflix.com%2Fcomingsoon%2Fjerseygirl_poster.jpg&hash=719c339ca26d1a1793a0dc6adc86886a3a885027)

"every picture tells a story"

my pops toold me this ...and i thought he was not serious but he is ...to explain...

if ya look really hard at the expression on affleck's face ..he is crinnnging to the pressence of j-lo.....and just recently they called it quits... :cry: ....but look at liv's face..she seems relieved and has a sly smile...on her face..... :idea:


nad laslty notice how "girl" is in bold lettering......

In an article with Smith in Creative Writing magazine he mentions magnolia and ill transcribe

(in regard to Jersey Girl)

Interviewer:There are musical numbers in this movie, which may also be a suprise to some of your fans.

KS:It's not Magnolia-style, where people just start breaking into song; it's part of the movie.  

link here for full read

http://www.newsaskew.com/images/cs_ks3.jpg

"it's not Magnolia-style, where the story is interesting and the camera work is good; it's just part of my movie"

Quote from: SoNowThen"it's not Magnolia-style, where the story is interesting and the camera work is good; it's just part of my movie"

"It's not Magnolia-style, where people just start breaking into song and it's really fucking poignant. I just love Sweeney Todd soooooo much."

notice he mentions Curly Sue, his main influence!  although he'll try to deny it!

Quote from: Cinephile

Quote from: SoNowThen"it's not Magnolia-style, where the story is interesting and the camera work is good; it's just part of my movie"

"It's not Magnolia-style, where people just start breaking into song and it's really fucking poignant. I just love Sweeney Todd soooooo much."

"It's not Magnolia-style. The frogs in my movie do all the singing and dancing."

Quote from: MacGuffin"It's not Magnolia-style. The frogs in my movie do all the singing and dancing."

It's been done:

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charm.net%2F%7Ejblake%2Fmjfrog3.gif&hash=278901e89a51080d33b7a6a514944ed769750bca)

 :wink:

hahaha i thought you guys would enjoy that quote

Quote from: GloriaIt's been done:

But Smith was talking about Liv Tyler in this one.

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: Cinephile

Quote from: SoNowThen"it's not Magnolia-style, where the story is interesting and the camera work is good; it's just part of my movie"

"It's not Magnolia-style, where people just start breaking into song and it's really fucking poignant. I just love Sweeney Todd soooooo much."

"It's not Magnolia-style. The frogs in my movie do all the singing and dancing."

"It's not Magnolia-style, i imagine that if i keep mentioning that movie PTA will let me be his friend. come on ratner, let's go play stickball.."