All That Jazz

Started by mutinyco, August 20, 2003, 08:00:04 AM

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mutinyco

#30
August 22, 2003, 05:06:36 PM
All three films: Cabaret, Lenny, and All That Jazz are as good as anything made during the 1970s.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

SoNowThen

#31
August 22, 2003, 07:10:02 PM
Quote from: P
Quote from: SoNowThenI would just like to point out yet again that Lenny is a brilliant piece of cinema..
fuck ATJ, i havn't seen it so i can say that. i can't see it being better than LENNY. i just saw that like 3 times this week, shit, damn, that's sum great biopic ish. dusty was really riskin it back in the day. now u couldn't tell by lookin at him, but he had sum balls.

So true. Great fucking movie.

Sorry to interrupt the ATJ thread (though it's become more like a Fosse thread), but I gotta just say: the climax scene of Lenny, the stand-up routine with the insanely wide-shot and no cutting... SO FUCKING GREAT. SO GREAT. How great? FUCKING GREAT!! I kept thinking "is he holding this... he's gonna cut, no, he's holding it... motherfucking amazing... it's locked off...". I'm perverse like that. That shot, and the one in AutoFocus where Schrader stays on Dafoe in that crazy handheld... I think my favorite two climax shots in films.

Well, in non-xxx films anyway...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

mutinyco

#32
August 23, 2003, 03:18:33 PM
Go see All That Jazz already!!!
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Alexandro

#33
August 24, 2003, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: mutinycoAll three films: Cabaret, Lenny, and All That Jazz are as good as anything made during the 1970s.


Haven't seen All that Jazz, but just in the last month I saw Cabaret (I own it now) and Lenny on the big screen (but on DVD)...both fucking amazing, I'm a new Fosse fan...

I foyu tell me this movie is on your top 10, I know it's gonna be interesting...Even if you have this childish "fuck Martin Scorsese" thing going on, we seem to have the same movies on our top of mind: Apocalypse Now, 2001, 8 1/2 .......

mutinyco

#34
August 25, 2003, 09:59:29 AM
Don't get started with MS again...
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Ravi

#35
August 31, 2003, 01:49:13 AM
I watched the film today with no expectations.  ATJ is a masterfully unflinching portrait of Joe Gideon.  The ending song may have been a tad overlong, but it reflects to some degree Gideon's self-absorption.  I don't mean this in the selfish sense, but in the sense that he lives and breathes dancing, right until the end.  Instead of having the glitzy musical number fade out, Fosse unexpectedly cuts to the cold reality of his body being zipped up.  If he hadn't done that, the honesty about Gideon portrayed in the rest of the film would have been compromised.

Pubrick

#36
August 31, 2003, 12:36:33 PM
all that jizz.
under the paving stones.

Ravi

#37
August 31, 2003, 05:24:04 PM
Quote from: Pall that jizz.

The GDIDM Story.

Gold Trumpet

#38
August 31, 2003, 06:55:06 PM
Quote from: RaviThe ending song may have been a tad overlong, but it reflects to some degree Gideon's self-absorption.  I don't mean this in the selfish sense, but in the sense that he lives and breathes dancing, right until the end.

rationalization.

~rougerum

Ravi

#39
August 31, 2003, 08:42:42 PM
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Quote from: RaviThe ending song may have been a tad overlong, but it reflects to some degree Gideon's self-absorption.  I don't mean this in the selfish sense, but in the sense that he lives and breathes dancing, right until the end.

rationalization.

~rougerum

Of what?  The length of the number?  Yeah, it was a little tiresome, but it didn't ruin the film.

Gold Trumpet

#40
August 31, 2003, 11:20:48 PM
You rationalized an over long number into a mind of thought that was fitting for the film. Me calling it a "rationalization" was saying you were looking for excuses to validify the length. I don't think the film had to produce an extra long finale in order to speak for the man's obcession with the musical and his work. I didn't say just this made the film bad. I hardly ever mention it being just a bad film. I do believe though in what it is trying to be and much to the unhappiness of some here, it is 8 1/2 remade but not as good as 8 1/2. Its admirable without succeeding at its intentions.


~rougerum

mutinyco

#41
September 01, 2003, 06:29:39 PM
I think you're the one who's rationalizing. History and general opinion are not in your favor. The only time I related Jazz to 8 1/2 was the first time I saw it -- and that was superficial based on the general concept. It's a different film that succeeds on its own merits. Knocking Jazz because you like 8 1/2 better (which I don't disagree with) is like knocking Once Upon a Time in America because you like The Godfather. Get over it already.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Gold Trumpet

#42
September 01, 2003, 06:47:20 PM
What do you mean get over it already? My last post was not a continuation of just repeated argument, but handling another argument from someone else. For me to explain my position, I had to repeat a portion of my own opinion and identify people here disagree with it. People like you. Thats fine. I don't mind that but you are keeping on the general arguments of our argument about this movie just because I mentioned something you disagreed about. Something you already knew and was explained to death. You're the one that really needs to get over it. Just consider the argument dead and final between us.

~rougerum

Find Your Magali

#43
September 01, 2003, 06:54:28 PM
mutinyco wrote:

QuoteKnocking Jazz because you like 8 1/2 better (which I don't disagree with) is like knocking Once Upon a Time in America because you like The Godfather. Get over it already.

Well, gosh, not to get off on a tangent here, but, in many ways, I enjoy Once Upon a Time in America far moreso than The Godfather.

I'm not saying Once Upon a Time in America is a better film. Who the hell am I to say that?

But, for me, it's a far more shattering and satisfying cinematic experience, one that so few people have truly gotten to see over the years, due to the butcherings in the editing room.

mogwai

#44
June 07, 2004, 10:47:20 AM
Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: P
Quote from: SoNowThenI would just like to point out yet again that Lenny is a brilliant piece of cinema..
fuck ATJ, i havn't seen it so i can say that. i can't see it being better than LENNY. i just saw that like 3 times this week, shit, damn, that's sum great biopic ish. dusty was really riskin it back in the day. now u couldn't tell by lookin at him, but he had sum balls.

So true. Great fucking movie.

Sorry to interrupt the ATJ thread (though it's become more like a Fosse thread), but I gotta just say: the climax scene of Lenny, the stand-up routine with the insanely wide-shot and no cutting... SO FUCKING GREAT. SO GREAT. How great? FUCKING GREAT!! I kept thinking "is he holding this... he's gonna cut, no, he's holding it... motherfucking amazing... it's locked off...". I'm perverse like that. That shot, and the one in AutoFocus where Schrader stays on Dafoe in that crazy handheld... I think my favorite two climax shots in films.

Well, in non-xxx films anyway...
well, i saw lenny late last night and i was completely blown away of hoffman's performance. especially the climax scene everybody's talking about.



it's so tragic and real and you just want it to end. here's what it says at imdb:

"The one take master shot scene of Lenny doing his act in a raincoat near the end of the film came from an actual tape recorded from a show he did that was sent to Dustin Hoffman by a student who saw the show. Lenny's exact words in the scene on stage are word for word from the tape of his show."

this is why hoffman is one of the most original actors.
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