Author Topic: disturbing films  (Read 27730 times)

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ono

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« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2003, 03:39:56 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover (1989)

Greenaway is a hack, IMO.


Quote from: Onomatopoeia
I thought [Happiness] was pretty good, but wish Solondz would calm down, as he has talent.


Believe it or not, that has left me utterly speechless.

Why?

Mesh

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« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2003, 04:02:08 PM »
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Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover (1989)

Greenaway is a hack, IMO.


Quote from: Onomatopoeia
I thought [Happiness] was pretty good, but wish Solondz would calm down, as he has talent.


Believe it or not, that has left me utterly speechless.

Why?


Peter Greenaway packs more creativity, beauty, and originality into the first 25 minutes of The Cook, The Thief.... than Solondz has managed to exhibit in all of his overrated movies combined.

Your definition of the word "hack" must be a universe away from mine.

ono

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« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2003, 04:12:52 PM »
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Quote from: Mesh
Peter Greenaway packs more creativity, beauty, and originality into the first 25 minutes of The Cook, The Thief.... than Solondz has managed to exhibit in all of his overrated movies combined.

Your definition of the word "hack" must be a universe away from mine.

Indeed.  To me, all of Greenaway's work that I've seen is boring, pretentious, borderline-unwatchable shit.  The only film of his I've seen that I've even remotely liked was ZOO.  But even that was pretentious.  Greenaway's personality bugs me, his take on "cinema" bugs me, and his ideas of what is entertaining bugs me.

Solondz's work spoilers.

Solondz, OTOH, is incredibly creative, brave, insightful, and witty.  I haven't seen his first feature length film (Fear, Anxiety & Depression), but I have seen the main three he's known for.  Welcome to the Dollhouse was an incredibly apt portrait of what middle school is really like, especially for an outsider.

Happiness was great because even though it went over the top, it addressed the problems of all these people in a unique, memorable way.  My only beef with it is its striving to be controversial; a lot of the scenes that caused a ruckus (PSH using semen as an adhesive, Manheim chopping up her super for trying to rape her, the kid "coming" and the dog licking it up, and the whole pederasty story) weren't entirely necessary.  But that's what also made it work.

But what I really admire about Solondz the most is his last film, Storytelling.  Both the fiction and non-fiction sections are brilliant satire with heart.  Solondz is able to make fun of himself, other movies, filmmaking, and his critics, while responding to criticisms and crafting a compelling story.  Greenaway can't do any of this because he's too caught up in numbers, lists, boring sex, allegory, and pretention after pretention after pretention of his ideas of what "good cinema" should be.  It's pathetic and ridiculous.

Mesh

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« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2003, 05:46:37 PM »
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Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Quote from: Mesh
Your definition of the word "hack" must be a universe away from mine.

Indeed.  To me, all of Greenaway's work that I've seen is boring, pretentious, borderline-unwatchable shit.  The only film of his I've seen that I've even remotely liked was ZOO.  But even that was pretentious.  Greenaway's personality bugs me, his take on "cinema" bugs me, and his ideas of what is entertaining bugs me......

....Solondz is able to make fun of himself, other movies, filmmaking, and his critics, while responding to criticisms and crafting a compelling story.  Greenaway can't do any of this because he's too caught up in numbers, lists, boring sex, allegory, and pretention after pretention after pretention of his ideas of what "good cinema" should be.  It's pathetic and ridiculous.


Greenaway's style may not be your personal cup of tea, but calling him a "hack" is just inaccurate and lazy on your part.  You're entitled to your opinion of how Greenaway movies entertain, how they work as cinematic experiences, but the term "hack" suggests that he's a rip-off artist, that he works to only mediocre and loose professional standards.  The fact that you, a non-fan, can name off many of the elements of the Greenaway aesthetic that set him apart from any other filmmaker in the world is testament to his uniqueness and singularity.  It's cool if you hate him, but his cinematic voice is nothing if not original, intelligent, and thoughtful....and has been for 25 years.

Now, as for Solondz, I have to say I admire his intertextual leanings, but to me, his films are pointlessly morose and snide for the sake of being so.  I can't say he's untalented either; WTTD certainly had its moments of stark originality (the fact that I remember thinking so having seen it once 5+ years ago proves that).  I forgot everything I could have about Happiness immediately after having sat through it, so I'm not about to critique it, though it seemed bent on controversial shock-value to me.

Storytelling interested me, I have to admit.  It's fun to watch a director sort of work on his own public perception in that way (I like Deconstructing Harry for similar reasons).  But I just don't think Storytelling did much that I hadn't seen before, although its presentation led me to believe Solondz sees himself as a maverick, risk-taking innovator that he simply is not.  Yeah, Todd, documentarians are cruel to their subjects, uh-huh, fascinating.  American Movie made its own point, thanks very much.

My initial speechlessness has obviously subsided.  Just found it hard to believe you could, in one post, mislabel Greenaway as a hack while at once lamenting some sort of misspent "talent" so obvious in the work of Solondz.  He's several pictures in and still hasn't made anything really resonant to American moviegoers at large.

Ghostboy

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« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2003, 06:14:27 PM »
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When it comes to 'disturbing' or controversial films, everyone's opinions are always sharply divided. Which is why it's such a great topic!We've all at one time or another consolidated our opinions into a quick statement, like calling someone a hack. I happen to love Greenaway, but I can see why he could be labeled pretentious. Hiis films are too interesting for me not to enjoy. The way he combines text with visuals is just wonderful, to me at least. The Cook (etc.) is an amazing movie. On the other hand, while I like Solondz, I thought Storytelling was a failure.

RegularKarate

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« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2003, 07:27:29 PM »
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Just saw "I Stand Alone" and it was one of the worst movies I've seen in months... complete shit.

It was far from brilliant and had close to NO redeeming qualities... I get the Taxi Driver connection, but it's almost and insult to TD to compare the two.

As far as disturbing goes, it wasn't tame, but no more disturbing than Natural Born Killers.

Anyway, if someone out there is holding something like Funny Games in one hand and I Stand Alone, go with the former.... unless you just really love movies that are done almost entirely in voice over or need a good nap.

Anachronism

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« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2003, 02:32:41 AM »
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Naked Lunch... the scene where the bug gay guy is penetrating the poor guy in the cage w. his pincer claw whatever.... *shudder *vomit *shudder

Ghostboy

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« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2003, 03:10:05 AM »
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Speaking of disturbing, Anachronism, that Bosch triptych that is your avatar made a big impression on me when I was little. The hell section really disturbed me, and as my therapy as a child was art, I copied it a handful of times.

RK, have you seen Irreversible? I'm trying to gauge whether I should watch I Stand Alone...I know I should so I can form my opinion, but time is precious.

rustinglass

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« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2003, 05:16:36 AM »
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I saw that in a shop as a 10.000 pieace puzzle. hell if I'm gonna buy it: it's expensive, heavy, it wouldn't fit anywhere, it would take me a week just to conect two pieces.
"In Serbia a lot of people hate me because they want to westernise, not understanding that the western world is bipolar, with very good things and very bad things. Since they don't have experience of the west, they even believe that western shit is pie."
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RegularKarate

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« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2003, 11:25:50 AM »
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Quote from: Ghostboy

RK, have you seen Irreversible? I'm trying to gauge whether I should watch I Stand Alone...I know I should so I can form my opinion, but time is precious.


Yes, I've see Irreversible, I didn't like it very much, but thought it was better than I Stand Alone... if you're asking which is more disturbing, it's Irreversible, hands down.

NEON MERCURY

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« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2003, 10:11:26 PM »
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..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!

moonshiner

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« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2003, 12:24:43 AM »
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Spanking the Monkey was disturbing - but effective, that was strange drama....also credit this movie for getting me into Morphine
the rumble of the train trails off to infinity, a place where no one goes anymore

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rustinglass

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« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2003, 03:50:52 AM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!


Last house on the left, I hated that! It's remake of the ingmar bergman masterpiece The Virgin Spring (bergman's best work imo)and complete shit compared to it. I feel uneasy just to relate these two films.
"In Serbia a lot of people hate me because they want to westernise, not understanding that the western world is bipolar, with very good things and very bad things. Since they don't have experience of the west, they even believe that western shit is pie."
-Emir Kusturica

NEON MERCURY

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« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2003, 10:36:58 PM »
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Quote from: rustinglass
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!


Last house on the left, I hated that! It's remake of the ingmar bergman masterpiece The Virgin Spring (bergman's best work imo)and complete shit compared to it. I feel uneasy just to relate these two films.



is it  available on vhs/dvd?.......

rustinglass

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« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2003, 03:31:10 AM »
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Quote from: NEON MERCURY
Quote from: rustinglass
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!


Last house on the left, I hated that! It's remake of the ingmar bergman masterpiece The Virgin Spring (bergman's best work imo)and complete shit compared to it. I feel uneasy just to relate these two films.



is it  available on vhs/dvd?.......


http://www.blackstar.co.uk/video/item/7000000073650
"In Serbia a lot of people hate me because they want to westernise, not understanding that the western world is bipolar, with very good things and very bad things. Since they don't have experience of the west, they even believe that western shit is pie."
-Emir Kusturica

 

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