Homeland

[diggler]

The Breaking Bad pilot is widely considered to be one of the best pilots ever aired on TV. It's that rare case of a show that essentially emerged fully-formed. It didn't need several episodes to iron out the production quality, or figure out what its tone is and what its characters are doing.

One of my favorite BB episodes ever is S1E03, when Walt has to deal with Krazy-8 in Jesse's basement, agonizes over whether to kill him (his pro/con list is classic), finds the broken piece of plate missing, etc. That's still some of the most intense stuff the show has ever done.

Season 1 really makes the most of its 7 episodes. Heisenberg is born, Tuco is confronted, and everything is very exciting.

I can't think of one episode of Homeland S1 that I would put above any episode of Breaking Bad S1.

I would put "The Weekend" up against any Season 1 episode, but that's not really the point I'm trying to make. The endless BB comparisons are boring. We get it, Breaking Bad rules, it's easily my favorite show on television. To try and bring another good show like Homeland down because it won a bullshit award over BB is silly.

[Jeremy Blackman]

I know. I don't particularly like pitting one show against another. After all, you can watch them both, so it's kind of silly.

The problem is, the Emmys explicitly pitted Breaking Bad against Homeland, and it happened very recently. That's why we brought it up.

[pete]

I don't like that nobody is watching Justified. THAT'S ALL

[Brando]

The Breaking Bad pilot is widely considered to be one of the best pilots ever aired on TV. It's that rare case of a show that essentially emerged fully-formed. It didn't need several episodes to iron out the production quality, or figure out what its tone is and what its characters are doing.

One of my favorite BB episodes ever is S1E03, when Walt has to deal with Krazy-8 in Jesse's basement, agonizes over whether to kill him (his pro/con list is classic), finds the broken piece of plate missing, etc. That's still some of the most intense stuff the show has ever done.

Season 1 really makes the most of its 7 episodes. Heisenberg is born, Tuco is confronted, and everything is very exciting.

I can't think of one episode of Homeland S1 that I would put above any episode of Breaking Bad S1.

I would put "The Weekend" up against any Season 1 episode, but that's not really the point I'm trying to make. The endless BB comparisons are boring. We get it, Breaking Bad rules, it's easily my favorite show on television. To try and bring another good show like Homeland down because it won a bullshit award over BB is silly.

SPOILERS up to S2E1

It's not really fair to compare shows especially comparing a show to BB.  With this it's different for me, cause I think Homeland could be a really great show but it's failure is one that BB excels at. I was watching the first episode of the second season and really getting into it but then it's weakness pops up which the latter seasons of 24 had.  The terrorist are all knowing. They somehow know everything about everything before it even happens. Once it seems they have someone cornered and about to spring a trap it's actually the terrorist who is doing the trapping with an exploding briefcase. I was getting really into the season 2 premiere when all of a sudden a woman shows up that knows there is a safe in the CIA directors office, knows the information inside and the combination.  There are just these huge loose ends that will probably be covered up in the future with the explanation of there is a spy in the CIA which 24 did multiple seasons.  I stopped watching it but there seemed to be 2 or 3 seasons with the revelation of a spy at CTU.  BB has these huge plot twist and turns but they tie up loose ends as best as humanely possible. So when I compare BB to Homeland it's not comparing the quality of the shows but rather comparing the weakness of one and the strength of the other.

This is true of a lot of shows but how you deal with what happens after the confrontation or plot peak needs to be thought out just as carefully as how you got to the climax. They treat the climax and everything leading up to it as what's important and the resolution or what happens after it is an after thought. Last season's whole terror plot didn't make any sense to me. Why would you go through the trouble/risk of capturing and turning a military sniper in order to have him purposely miss the target? The second turned terrorist job was to miss the vice president in order to get the entire entourage in a single room. Anyone could have been the sniper if all they had to do was miss.

[Jeremy Blackman]

MILD SPOILERS

In general I'm really liking this season so far. I think it's improving. Dana is still annoying, but that's alright I guess. I'm enjoying this particular parallel:

Homeland: He knows!
Dexter: She knows!
Breaking Bad: He knows!

Anyway, there's one big problem facing Homeland right now. Vince Gilligan said it best: Coincidences are fine as long as they don't benefit your protagonists. Homeland is violating this rule with wild abandon. Just in the last episode, all of the major protagonists were graced with ground-shifting miraculous coincidences: Brody/Nazir, Carrie, and Saul. It wouldn't be such a problem if these events weren't driving the plot. It's all fairly clever and entirely possible, but after a while it begins to feel cheap. (In stark contrast to Breaking Bad, the plot points don't flow from the characters.) I hope they can correct that, because I want this show to be great.

[©brad]

SPOILERS up to S2E1

There are plotholes aplenty in last season for sure. Like we've been saying, this is a show that's a lot of fun as long as you don't take it too seriously. I still don't fully understand why Carrie would allow herself to fall for a guy she's so convinced is a terrorist, but I let that go a while ago.

You could argue that Breaking Bad is equally unbelievable, but it's so damn well executed that I never have to remind myself to suspend disbelief as I do when watching Homeland.

[Neil]

SPOILERS up to S2E1

I still don't fully understand why Carrie would allow herself to fall for a guy she's so convinced is a terrorist

Haven't seen the show and had no business reading this, but for a second I thought I'd stumbled into the, "Days of Our Lives" thread.

[Jeremy Blackman]

The show was definitely like that at times, but with the gloss of high production value. Thankfully, I think they're getting more serious now.

[©brad]

That's good to hear. Even if they go on a shark jumping spree, I'll still watch because this is all we have until Mad Men. I do want to start watching Justified and finally start The Shield. Any thoughts on which should I do first?

[©brad]

SPOILERS up to S2E2

Well dayum, this last episode was a doozy. All the problems we've been talking about remain. There were so many coincidences I lost count. I don't want to criticize too much because all the awesome makes up for sloppy.

- Carrie running back inside the apartment complex reached Breaking Bad levels of intensity. Holy hell.
- You have to give it to Claire Danes. Her panic attack and speech on the roof was so well done.
- That ending! I love how this show isn't afraid to play its cards too soon. Other writers might have stretched out Sal finding out about Brody for another season, but nope. Episode 2. Bam. The question now is, how many episodes can they go before the whole CIA knows? How long will it take Sal to relay it to Carrie and then the CIA? Does the CIA try and flip Brody back to their side? Does something happen to Sal in Beirut that prevents him from communicating this?
- Brody's ascent to a viable vice-presidential candidate is impossible to believe. As is him just happening to be there at the Pentagon when the operation was going down, as is him getting cell phone signal in that room, as is oh whatever, it still rocked. 

[Jeremy Blackman]

I feel exactly the same way. The good outweighed the bad, and it was a very exciting and well-made episode. I think we can expect more of this.

SPOILERS

But yeah, the show still faces a credibility problem with basically all the political content in my opinion, especially Brody's unlikely rise to power. We haven't had one single scene of him working as a legislator, which he supposedly is, so it seems like a fantasy that's not actually happening. It makes no sense that he would be considered for VP without a legislative record and more than 6 months of experience. (Obama served 8 years in the Illinois Senate, then 4 years in the U.S. Senate, and people still questioned his experience and felt like he came out of nowhere.) If you're going to try to pull that, at least give us scenes in which he's being trumped up as an American hero by the media and his colleagues. We haven't had any content like that since, what, the beginning of Season 1? As it stands, there's no reason for his success other than divine intervention. That whole premise still feels false right now. I genuinely hope they can turn it around.

The way they handle his inner turmoil is great, though. It's about 10 times more credible than the political stuff.

[©brad]

The way they handle his inner turmoil is great, though. It's about 10 times more credible than the political stuff.

This is the truth. The writers have to know this too. They're too smart in other areas not to.

[Jeremy Blackman]

New episode, new assortment of plot holes and stark implausibilities. I won't even get into it. At the same time, I enjoyed it, and there was some incredible acting. This show confuses me.

[diggler]

Yeah I'm not liking how Nazir keeps putting his MOLE VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE in dangerous situations.

I'm feeling weird about all the sticking up I did for this show earlier, but the acting is still winning me over. Patinkin is giving a thankless performance but his character anchors the show. None of it would work without his presence.

[Fernando]

New episode, new assortment of plot holes and stark implausibilities. I won't even get into it. At the same time, I enjoyed it, and there was some incredible acting. This show confuses me.

couldnt agree more, specially the stark implausibilities of...

...how Nazir keeps putting his MOLE VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE in dangerous situations.

seriously, that was just too much.

fortunately, the Carrie/Saul story line is great and so far really satisfying, e.g. the custom guys in Lebanon not taking the video and Saul showing it first to Carrie because she deserves it. fuckin' A.