XIXAX Film Forum

Film Discussion => News and Theory => Topic started by: NEON MERCURY on August 16, 2003, 11:39:56 PM

Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 16, 2003, 11:39:56 PM
...just curious as to what films that are deemed contraversial ..and disturbing..have artistic merit to them or are they ......trash...what are some of themand your opinion about them....


1.)...kids=trash
2.)a clockwork orange.=art
3..)requiem for a dream=art
4.).gummo=trash
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Sleuth on August 16, 2003, 11:40:56 PM
I thought the same exact thing about Kids for a while

I was just being dumb though.  I still don't like the movie but I don't think it's trash anymore
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 16, 2003, 11:43:31 PM
..yeah.. i  should use a diferent word ..but i don't mean its trash literally but ..its not a good film IMO and ..the contraversial aspects are gratuitious and serve no point....that what i mean by trash
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Sleuth on August 16, 2003, 11:46:56 PM
but that sort of is the point

it's supposed to be shocking like that, perhaps sickening (disturbing, anyone?  anyone?)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: eward on August 16, 2003, 11:51:56 PM
pink flamingos?  never really liked it and was particularly grossed out by all of it.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 16, 2003, 11:53:40 PM
..well i see that ..but look at clockwork or requiem they are both .shocking  and it pays of in the end for these films...but w/kids its just like the director(clark..right?)..just thinks or something  shocking or wild..and films it w/out it serving a point...it does nothing to further the art of making a controversial film..and gives directors that are risque..a bad name IMO
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 16, 2003, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: eward
pink flamingos?  never really liked it and was particularly grossed out by all of it.



i have heard of it but never have seen it .what are scenes in it that make it disturbing, contraversial, ..etc.??
Title: disturbing films
Post by: eward on August 17, 2003, 12:01:17 AM
a really large transvestite named DIVINE eats dogshit, for one example........
Title: disturbing films
Post by: filmcritic on August 17, 2003, 12:03:20 AM
That's John Walters for ya!
Title: disturbing films
Post by: eward on August 17, 2003, 12:08:48 AM
i dont dislike john waters (not WALTERS), it's just that his movies general IDEAS tend to be funnier or better than the actual movie itself.  the exceptions being: cry-baby, hairspray, serial mom, and possibly cecil b. demented (maybe).......
Title: disturbing films
Post by: cine on August 17, 2003, 12:20:57 AM
Disturbing? Um.. The Cell could've been perceived as that.. Straw Dogs... Santa Sangre... okay, basically any Jodorowsky film.. Glitter.. Cube.. etc.
As for controversial... Irreversible is definitely the most talked about controversial film of recent memory that I know of.. and, naturally, I could see why... but nevertheless - it was a form of art.
I remember American Psycho as being hailed as controversial... Oh, and Howard the Duck was seen as controversial. For sucking so much.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Cecil on August 17, 2003, 12:25:28 AM
yes, waters is trash
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ravi on August 17, 2003, 12:41:25 AM
Salo?  Cannibal Holocaust?  I've seen neither, but the descriptions of them are grotesque.  Some people consider Salo art and some think it is worthless.  CH was banned for a while, wasn't it?
Title: disturbing films
Post by: modage on August 17, 2003, 01:34:44 AM
not to beat a dead horse, or give any extra press but

1.) irreversible=hated it
2.) gummo=hated it
3.) happiness (no comment)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Sleuth on August 17, 2003, 01:39:14 AM
I FUCKING HATED GUMMO, WHAT A WASTE OF TIME
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ghostboy on August 17, 2003, 02:55:26 AM
Quote from: Ravi
Salo?  Cannibal Holocaust?  I've seen neither, but the descriptions of them are grotesque.  Some people consider Salo art and some think it is worthless.  CH was banned for a while, wasn't it?


http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=3019, for anyone interested

I'd add two Michael Haneke films to the list -- The Piano Teacher and Funny Games.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: rustinglass on August 17, 2003, 07:31:02 AM
funny games is  great and so is code:inconnu, it has some pretty disturbing moments btw. I didn't care too much for the piano teacher.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: 1976 on August 17, 2003, 08:45:32 AM
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005K9O8.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)


Close Thread.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Pas on August 17, 2003, 10:23:33 AM
This one would kill Ebes... C'est arrivé près de chez vous ... best feature in Cannes '92

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103905
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Sleuth on August 17, 2003, 02:07:18 PM
Ebes is too afraid to even open the thread
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Vile5 on August 17, 2003, 05:09:47 PM
1.Irreversible= nice, but a pretentious experiment?
2.Happiness= i didn't like it
3.Audition= art
4.The Piano Teacher= maybe the only god in this picture were Isabelle Huppert and Benoit Magimel (especially Benoit hmm...)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on August 17, 2003, 05:10:03 PM
I was doing some research a while back on some of the more controversial films made.  Here's a list, no particular order.  Some have probably been repeated, but links to IMDB are included as well.

Baise-moi (2000) (Fuck Me) / (Rape Me)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0249380

Clean, Shaven (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0106579

Last House on the Left (1972)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0068833

Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (1986)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0099763

Pink Flamingos (1972)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0069089

The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover (1989)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0097108
Excrement, cannibalism, and other grotesque ... shit.
I hated this movie, and thought it had no redeeming qualities whatsoever, but I know some of you here liked it.  Greenaway is a hack, IMO.

Day of the Woman (1978) (AKA: I Spit on Your Grave, I Hate Your Guts, The Rape and Revenge of Jennifer Hill)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0077713
The film Roger Ebert calls the worst EVER.

Irréversible (2002) (Irreversible)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0290673

Salò o le 120 giornate di Sodoma (1975) (Salo, or The 120 Days of Sodom)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0073650

Caligola (1979) (Caligula)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0080491

Cannibal Holocaust (1979)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0078935

Meet the Feebles (1989)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0097858

Ai no corrida (1976) (In the Realm of the Senses) / (Bullfight of love)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0074102
Terrible, terrible movie that's basically just porn masquerading as art.  The characters have no depth, the story is just boring, and the sex is graphic in some ways, and in others not, which is really odd for a movie such as this.  Kael spoke of a revolution starting with Ultimo tango a parigi (which never came).  Last Tango tried to say something, at least.  This movie is actually boring when it comes right down to it.

Seul contre tous (1998) (I Stand Alone)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0157016

C'est arrivé près de chez vous (1992) (Man Bites Dog)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103905

Intimacy (2000)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0256103

Kids (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0113540
Trash.  Larry Clark is a perverted old man.  Its only redeeming quality is it may have something good to say to high school kids, but I'm better betting the vast majority of them are too stupid to get it, and take this film as a glorification of the debauchery within.

Bully (2001)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0242193

Gummo (1997)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0119237

julien donkey-boy (1999)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0192194

Ken Park (2002)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0209077

À ma soeur! (2001) (Fat Girl)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0243255

Romance X (1999)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0194314

36 fillette (1988)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0094596

Une vraie jeune fille (1976) (A Real Young Girl)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0135024

And some basic classic horror stuff, probably considered rather tame compared to the stuff above:

The Evil Dead (1981)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0083907

Evil Dead II (1987)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0092991

Braindead (1992) (Dead Alive)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103873

I've only been able to see four of the films listed (Kids, that Greenaway piece of shit, and Ai no corrida).  I'm looking forward to seeing Korine's other works, though.  For some reason, they suddenly seem really intriguing.  But the trend seems to be that controversial != good.  Intimacy is probably the most mature work from what I've read.  And the most tame, I'm betting.  I found out about it in Ebert's 2002 yearbook.  All of those volumes are such great resources.

EDIT: For some reason, I don't really consider Happiness in this group anymore, but I guess it should be, considering some of the content.  I thought it was pretty good, but wish Solondz would calm down, as he has talent.

That reminds me:

Beau-pere (1981) (Stepfather)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0082054
A chilling look at a relationship between a stepfather and stepdaughter after the mother dies.  Better than both Lolitas IMO.

also... (as Ultimo tango a parigi reminded me):

The Unbearable Lightness of Being (1988)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0096332
Kael loved it.

Henry & June (1990)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0099762
First film to get an NC-17 rating.  Has Uma Thurman and Kevin Spacey in an early role (!).  But it's rather tame, I've heard.

Bleh, just refer to this list:

http://us.imdb.com/List?certificates=USA:NC-17&&heading=14;USA:NC-17

...if you're so curious.  First item on it is 1900 by Bertolucci.  Heard it's bloated and sprawling, but it's definitely one of the ones I want to see uncut someday.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: picolas on August 17, 2003, 05:24:16 PM
i don't recommend eating a muffin whilst reading this thread.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Cecil on August 17, 2003, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
I Spit On Your Grave (1973)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0077713
The film Roger Ebert calls the worst EVER


do you think he considers the brown bunny the worst ever now?
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Sleuth on August 17, 2003, 05:30:34 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Kids (1995)I'm better the vast majority of them are too stupid to get it, and take this film as a glorification of the debauchery within.


That's how it was presented to me, and I didn't know anything about it to begin with.  That's sort of the reason I hated it for a time.  Very sad
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on August 17, 2003, 05:37:23 PM
Quote from: Cecil B. Demented
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
I Spit On Your Grave (1973)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0077713
The film Roger Ebert calls the worst EVER


do you think he considers the brown bunny the worst ever now?

Hehe, good question.  I haven't seen either, but from what I've heard, I Spit On Your Grave is just trash all the way through.  But then again, The Brown Bunny is supposed be pretentious, boring trash.  So it's a tough call.

More films:

Fucking Åmål (1998)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0150662
Haha, the IMDB denied this film a place on the top 250 at one time, because of the word "fuck".  It's supposed to be good, too.

Lucía y el sexo (2001) (Sex and Lucia)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0254455
Another supposedly good film despite the sexual content.

Y tu mama tambien (2001) (And your mother too)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0245574
I'm just putting this one in because the two above titles reminded me of it.  The sex is realistic, which is the only source of controversy.  But the film isn't as good as most critics would have you believe, IMO.

Hundstage (2001) (Dog Days)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0290661
Austrian pretention.

Oodishon (2000) (Audition)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0235198

L' Amant (1991) (The Lover)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0101316

The Center of the World (2001)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0240402

Amy's Orgasm (2001)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0280424
Hahaha.

Fire (1996)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0116308

Naked (1993)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0107653
A Mike Leigh film.

Wide Sargasso Sea (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0108565

When Night Is Falling (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0114916

For a lot of these you can probably just laugh at the MPAA for giving the tame sexuality displayed NC-17 ratings.  But they're still worth mentioning for the "controversy."
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ravi on August 17, 2003, 05:43:16 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia

Fire (1996)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0116308


This one was more controversial within India than anywhere else.  It is about a lesbian relationship.  I haven't seen it, but I assume that it is pretty tame compared to the other films listed here.

Visszaesök (Forbidden Relations)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0084871

Brother and sister.  You put two and two together  :)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on August 17, 2003, 05:53:51 PM
You're probably right, Ravi.

Crash (1996)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0115964
Silly Cronenberg.

Boxing Helena (1993)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0106471
Silly David Lynch's Daughter.

Clerks. (1994)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0109445
Silly Kevin Smith.  But seriously, this film is decent for an indie, for a first effort, and for the pricetag.  The dialogue, though, man, I was really shocked when I first saw this.  Had my ears burning, which is why it got the NC-17 at first.

L.I.E. (2001)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0242587
A bit above average film with a cop-out ending.  If you didn't like Happiness, stay away from this.  Even though it does do a good job dancing around the subject at times, it is very frank.

And how could we forget...

Showgirls (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0114436

Feh.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Pas on August 17, 2003, 06:01:39 PM
Crash is a fuckin great movie ... Clerks is good too, and I find nothing shocking, let alone disturbing, to it. Kevin Smith made a couple (literally) of good movies.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 17, 2003, 07:59:50 PM
..damn..... :shock: .you guys sure know your stuff...onomatopoeia thanks for the list(s).......i stand alone.....i heard of that film before  but can't remeber why...is it any good?????
Title: disturbing films
Post by: 1976 on August 17, 2003, 09:15:31 PM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
i stand alone.....i heard of that film before  but can't remeber why...is it any good?????



Brilliant film.  Quite graphic at times (spousal abuse, incest, suicide, and at one point we see a sex scene which shows penetration.) Saw it at the New York Film Festival, and I remember the description in the program saying the film made Taxi Driver look like a Disney film. I also remember the president of the festival introducing the film and talking about how he first saw "I Stand Alone" a few hours before seeing "Saving Private Ryan" for the first time, and when he was leaving the theatre after Saving Private Ryan, a lady who had seen it with him turned to him and asked "wasn't that the most powerful film you've ever seen in your life?" and he replied "honestly...that isn't even the most powerful film I've seen today."
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 17, 2003, 09:23:13 PM
Quote from: 1976
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
i stand alone.....i heard of that film before  but can't remeber why...is it any good?????



Brilliant film.  Quite graphic at times (spousal abuse, incest, suicide, and at one point we see a sex scene which shows penetration.)



damn .thats freak'n nuts.....
1.) who directed
2...)the taxi driver comparison...is it along the sam lines just more graphoc
3.)i take it this is hard to find??
4..)..is it the most disturbing film you have seen.??
Title: disturbing films
Post by: puddnanners on August 17, 2003, 10:37:25 PM
A very disturbing film that i just saw is Last House on the Left (early Wes Craven).  It isn't trash though, because it is extremely well shot and the acting is great (very suprising for a low budget seventies thriller).  I highly reccomend it if you can find it.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: 1976 on August 18, 2003, 05:42:09 AM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
Quote from: 1976
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
i stand alone.....i heard of that film before  but can't remeber why...is it any good?????



Brilliant film.  Quite graphic at times (spousal abuse, incest, suicide, and at one point we see a sex scene which shows penetration.)



damn .thats freak'n nuts.....
1.) who directed
2...)the taxi driver comparison...is it along the sam lines just more graphoc
3.)i take it this is hard to find??
4..)..is it the most disturbing film you have seen.??



1.) a French director named Gasper Noe (who is considered by many to be the most talented director in France right now.)

2.) Gasper Noe sites Taxi Driver as the main influence behind this film. Similiar in it's use of inner monologue through voiceover, and the theme of a loner who despises his society and the people in it. More graphic, but just as much artistic merit.

3.) the film is actually available on DVD at Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005K9O8/qid%3D1061201996/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-1857393-8182243

4.) Definitely the most disturbing film I've ever seen as it feels more realistic than some of these other films mentioned and the violence is as much psychological as it is visual. I won't ruin the ending, but the last scene in the film made me so uncomfortable that I was amazed a piece of fiction could make me feel that way...and there lies the brilliance of the film. The acting and gritty cinematography is so well done that at times this movie plays like a documentary.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ravi on August 18, 2003, 01:23:57 PM
Frailty is not in the vein of most of the films listed here, but it was very disturbing.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: chainsmoking insomniac on August 18, 2003, 01:29:25 PM
Six Ways to Sunday has a very disturbing happening......**************************SPOILER WARNING!!!!!************************

 The main character bangs his mother.

Other than that, the film wasn't bad. J.Demme produced too.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on August 18, 2003, 01:56:23 PM
Begotten (1991)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0101420
Graphically violent religious imagery in an allegorical tale.

Batoru rowaiaru (2000) (Battle Royale)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0266308
Every kid for himself!  There's a sequel coming soon, too.

Series 7: The Contenders (2001)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0251031
Battle Royale reminded me of this.

Bizita Q (2001) (Visitor Q) / (Love Cinema Vol. 6)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0290329
Came across it when looking for these others.  Sounds like another pretty disgusting lampooning of reality TV.

Funny Games (1997)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0119167
Doesn't sound too fun.
EDIT: I see Ghostboy already mentioned this one.  Oh well.  :-D
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ghostboy on August 18, 2003, 02:18:46 PM
Visitor Q is pretty awesome. It's my favorite Takeshi Miike film. It's more like 'American Beauty' to the most fucked up degree possible.

EDIT: Actually, 'Happiness of the Katakuris' is my favorite Miike film. 'The Sound Of Music' meets 'Evil Dead' -- you can't beat that!
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Cecil on August 18, 2003, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Showgirls (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0114436


thats only disturbing to christians
Title: disturbing films
Post by: SoNowThen on August 18, 2003, 05:53:52 PM
Quote from: Cecil B. Demented
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Showgirls (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0114436


thats only disturbing to christians


it's much too lame to be disturbing to even us
Title: disturbing films
Post by: eward on August 18, 2003, 06:38:40 PM
i like when it's shown on TV, they superimpose this little CGI bra or top on her at the end.  it's funny.  funny funny funny.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ravi on August 18, 2003, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: Ghostboy
Visitor Q is pretty awesome. It's my favorite Takeshi Miike film. It's more like 'American Beauty' to the most fucked up degree possible.

EDIT: Actually, 'Happiness of the Katakuris' is my favorite Miike film. 'The Sound Of Music' meets 'Evil Dead' -- you can't beat that!


Happiness of the Katakuris was my introduction to Miike.  It's the only one of his films I've seen thus far.  It was terrific.

Onomatopoeia, I can't believe I forgot about Battle Royale.  That was a freaky movie.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on August 19, 2003, 12:23:10 AM
Quote from: Cecil B. Demented
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Showgirls (1995)
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0114436

thats only disturbing to christians

Quote from: SoNowThen
it's much too lame to be disturbing to even us

Yeah, I only put it because NEON MERCURY asked for disturbing/controversial.  This one was, as it was the first film that really attempted (and failed) to prove the commercial viability of the NC-17 rating.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Mesh on August 19, 2003, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover (1989)

Greenaway is a hack, IMO.


Quote from: Onomatopoeia
I thought [Happiness] was pretty good, but wish Solondz would calm down, as he has talent.


Believe it or not, that has left me utterly speechless.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Mesh on August 19, 2003, 03:34:03 PM
I cannot believe people are paying upwards of $500 for the OOP Criterion Salo DVD on eBay.  That's outlandish.

I also cannot believe it managed to miss it when it played downtown here in Chicago a few weeks back.

I'm all   :oops:   and shit.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on August 19, 2003, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover (1989)

Greenaway is a hack, IMO.


Quote from: Onomatopoeia
I thought [Happiness] was pretty good, but wish Solondz would calm down, as he has talent.


Believe it or not, that has left me utterly speechless.

Why?
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Mesh on August 19, 2003, 04:02:08 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Quote from: Mesh
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover (1989)

Greenaway is a hack, IMO.


Quote from: Onomatopoeia
I thought [Happiness] was pretty good, but wish Solondz would calm down, as he has talent.


Believe it or not, that has left me utterly speechless.

Why?


Peter Greenaway packs more creativity, beauty, and originality into the first 25 minutes of The Cook, The Thief.... than Solondz has managed to exhibit in all of his overrated movies combined.

Your definition of the word "hack" must be a universe away from mine.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on August 19, 2003, 04:12:52 PM
Quote from: Mesh
Peter Greenaway packs more creativity, beauty, and originality into the first 25 minutes of The Cook, The Thief.... than Solondz has managed to exhibit in all of his overrated movies combined.

Your definition of the word "hack" must be a universe away from mine.

Indeed.  To me, all of Greenaway's work that I've seen is boring, pretentious, borderline-unwatchable shit.  The only film of his I've seen that I've even remotely liked was ZOO.  But even that was pretentious.  Greenaway's personality bugs me, his take on "cinema" bugs me, and his ideas of what is entertaining bugs me.

Solondz's work spoilers.

Solondz, OTOH, is incredibly creative, brave, insightful, and witty.  I haven't seen his first feature length film (Fear, Anxiety & Depression), but I have seen the main three he's known for.  Welcome to the Dollhouse was an incredibly apt portrait of what middle school is really like, especially for an outsider.

Happiness was great because even though it went over the top, it addressed the problems of all these people in a unique, memorable way.  My only beef with it is its striving to be controversial; a lot of the scenes that caused a ruckus (PSH using semen as an adhesive, Manheim chopping up her super for trying to rape her, the kid "coming" and the dog licking it up, and the whole pederasty story) weren't entirely necessary.  But that's what also made it work.

But what I really admire about Solondz the most is his last film, Storytelling.  Both the fiction and non-fiction sections are brilliant satire with heart.  Solondz is able to make fun of himself, other movies, filmmaking, and his critics, while responding to criticisms and crafting a compelling story.  Greenaway can't do any of this because he's too caught up in numbers, lists, boring sex, allegory, and pretention after pretention after pretention of his ideas of what "good cinema" should be.  It's pathetic and ridiculous.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Mesh on August 19, 2003, 05:46:37 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Quote from: Mesh
Your definition of the word "hack" must be a universe away from mine.

Indeed.  To me, all of Greenaway's work that I've seen is boring, pretentious, borderline-unwatchable shit.  The only film of his I've seen that I've even remotely liked was ZOO.  But even that was pretentious.  Greenaway's personality bugs me, his take on "cinema" bugs me, and his ideas of what is entertaining bugs me......

....Solondz is able to make fun of himself, other movies, filmmaking, and his critics, while responding to criticisms and crafting a compelling story.  Greenaway can't do any of this because he's too caught up in numbers, lists, boring sex, allegory, and pretention after pretention after pretention of his ideas of what "good cinema" should be.  It's pathetic and ridiculous.


Greenaway's style may not be your personal cup of tea, but calling him a "hack" is just inaccurate and lazy on your part.  You're entitled to your opinion of how Greenaway movies entertain, how they work as cinematic experiences, but the term "hack" suggests that he's a rip-off artist, that he works to only mediocre and loose professional standards.  The fact that you, a non-fan, can name off many of the elements of the Greenaway aesthetic that set him apart from any other filmmaker in the world is testament to his uniqueness and singularity.  It's cool if you hate him, but his cinematic voice is nothing if not original, intelligent, and thoughtful....and has been for 25 years.

Now, as for Solondz, I have to say I admire his intertextual leanings, but to me, his films are pointlessly morose and snide for the sake of being so.  I can't say he's untalented either; WTTD certainly had its moments of stark originality (the fact that I remember thinking so having seen it once 5+ years ago proves that).  I forgot everything I could have about Happiness immediately after having sat through it, so I'm not about to critique it, though it seemed bent on controversial shock-value to me.

Storytelling interested me, I have to admit.  It's fun to watch a director sort of work on his own public perception in that way (I like Deconstructing Harry for similar reasons).  But I just don't think Storytelling did much that I hadn't seen before, although its presentation led me to believe Solondz sees himself as a maverick, risk-taking innovator that he simply is not.  Yeah, Todd, documentarians are cruel to their subjects, uh-huh, fascinating.  American Movie made its own point, thanks very much.

My initial speechlessness has obviously subsided.  Just found it hard to believe you could, in one post, mislabel Greenaway as a hack while at once lamenting some sort of misspent "talent" so obvious in the work of Solondz.  He's several pictures in and still hasn't made anything really resonant to American moviegoers at large.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ghostboy on August 19, 2003, 06:14:27 PM
When it comes to 'disturbing' or controversial films, everyone's opinions are always sharply divided. Which is why it's such a great topic!We've all at one time or another consolidated our opinions into a quick statement, like calling someone a hack. I happen to love Greenaway, but I can see why he could be labeled pretentious. Hiis films are too interesting for me not to enjoy. The way he combines text with visuals is just wonderful, to me at least. The Cook (etc.) is an amazing movie. On the other hand, while I like Solondz, I thought Storytelling was a failure.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: RegularKarate on August 23, 2003, 07:27:29 PM
Just saw "I Stand Alone" and it was one of the worst movies I've seen in months... complete shit.

It was far from brilliant and had close to NO redeeming qualities... I get the Taxi Driver connection, but it's almost and insult to TD to compare the two.

As far as disturbing goes, it wasn't tame, but no more disturbing than Natural Born Killers.

Anyway, if someone out there is holding something like Funny Games in one hand and I Stand Alone, go with the former.... unless you just really love movies that are done almost entirely in voice over or need a good nap.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Anachronism on August 24, 2003, 02:32:41 AM
Naked Lunch... the scene where the bug gay guy is penetrating the poor guy in the cage w. his pincer claw whatever.... *shudder *vomit *shudder
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ghostboy on August 24, 2003, 03:10:05 AM
Speaking of disturbing, Anachronism, that Bosch triptych that is your avatar made a big impression on me when I was little. The hell section really disturbed me, and as my therapy as a child was art, I copied it a handful of times.

RK, have you seen Irreversible? I'm trying to gauge whether I should watch I Stand Alone...I know I should so I can form my opinion, but time is precious.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: rustinglass on August 24, 2003, 05:16:36 AM
I saw that in a shop as a 10.000 pieace puzzle. hell if I'm gonna buy it: it's expensive, heavy, it wouldn't fit anywhere, it would take me a week just to conect two pieces.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: RegularKarate on August 24, 2003, 11:25:50 AM
Quote from: Ghostboy

RK, have you seen Irreversible? I'm trying to gauge whether I should watch I Stand Alone...I know I should so I can form my opinion, but time is precious.


Yes, I've see Irreversible, I didn't like it very much, but thought it was better than I Stand Alone... if you're asking which is more disturbing, it's Irreversible, hands down.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 24, 2003, 10:11:26 PM
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!
Title: disturbing films
Post by: moonshiner on August 25, 2003, 12:24:43 AM
Spanking the Monkey was disturbing - but effective, that was strange drama....also credit this movie for getting me into Morphine
Title: disturbing films
Post by: rustinglass on August 25, 2003, 03:50:52 AM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!


Last house on the left, I hated that! It's remake of the ingmar bergman masterpiece The Virgin Spring (bergman's best work imo)and complete shit compared to it. I feel uneasy just to relate these two films.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 25, 2003, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: rustinglass
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!


Last house on the left, I hated that! It's remake of the ingmar bergman masterpiece The Virgin Spring (bergman's best work imo)and complete shit compared to it. I feel uneasy just to relate these two films.



is it  available on vhs/dvd?.......
Title: disturbing films
Post by: rustinglass on August 26, 2003, 03:31:10 AM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
Quote from: rustinglass
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!


Last house on the left, I hated that! It's remake of the ingmar bergman masterpiece The Virgin Spring (bergman's best work imo)and complete shit compared to it. I feel uneasy just to relate these two films.



is it  available on vhs/dvd?.......


http://www.blackstar.co.uk/video/item/7000000073650
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on August 26, 2003, 11:29:18 AM
Quote from: rustinglass
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
Quote from: rustinglass
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
..saw last House on the Left..As the film itself i thought is was good..***/*****...But it really wasn't that disturbing or anything.but Nonetheless still an uneasy film..What  i liked most was the music ..for a UNRATEFD HORROR FILM this music was an odd choice..Reminded me of simon & garfunk...I thought it was cool..A Question though>was the music supossed to be upbeat like that and more "happy or did craven decide to use it in a horror film to be diferent?..The film was almost campy really ...except for the primative "bobbit" sequence......OUCH!


Last house on the left, I hated that! It's remake of the ingmar bergman masterpiece The Virgin Spring (bergman's best work imo)and complete shit compared to it. I feel uneasy just to relate these two films.



is it  available on vhs/dvd?.......


http://www.blackstar.co.uk/video/item/7000000073650


... 8) .thanks!.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: rustinglass on August 26, 2003, 11:42:35 AM
Quote from: NEON MERCURY
... 8) .thanks!.


you're welcome. if you buy it..tell me what you think.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Monsoon on August 28, 2003, 02:32:04 AM
I found "Kids" by Larry Clark really disturbing when I first saw it.  I knew kids very similar to those portrayed in the film and it was one of the first films that I saw with that sort of intense realism in the way it depicted those youngsters.  The complete lack of any moral compass of some of those kids freaked me out.  "Bully" was a lot like that too of course, but I was already prepped from having seen quite a few films riffing on that style.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: lamas on August 28, 2003, 06:41:02 AM
I'm surprised noone's mentioned Vulgar.  Nothing beats some good clown rape.  Oh yeah!
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ravi on August 28, 2003, 02:09:02 PM
Deliverance
Title: disturbing films
Post by: AlguienEstolamiPantalones on September 03, 2003, 10:41:06 PM
Quote from: lamas
I'm surprised noone's mentioned Vulgar.  Nothing beats some good clown rape.  Oh yeah!


wich gay  rapist brother in that film did you play
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on September 03, 2003, 10:45:20 PM
Did a search, and I think Santa sangre (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0098253/) was mentioned in this thread already.  Ebert's just recently reviewed it as one of his "Great Movies."

Along those lines is El Topo (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0067866/) (The Gopher) / (The Mole), another odd one, and seemingly disturbing as well.  I so want to see this, as just the name of this director seems so infamous and illustrious, and I've heard this mentioned in passing time and time again.  I've seen this film for sale on ebay, as I know it's been tied up legally for some reason or another and may not see a real release of any sort.  So is the ebay route the wisest way to go to see this one?
Title: disturbing films
Post by: cine on September 03, 2003, 10:54:54 PM
Oh yeah, no doubt about it.. I've been debating that one too and I've been looking to purchase any Jodorowsky film I can get my hands on (I was the one who mentioned him earlier in the thread btw).
It'd be funny to see an xixax action fight on one of his films, because I'd win anyhow   :twisted:
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on September 03, 2003, 10:59:16 PM
Quote from: Monsoon
I found "Kids" by Larry Clark really ... intense realism in the way it depicted those youngsters.



 um.... :? ..you can't be serious
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Ghostboy on September 04, 2003, 12:00:02 AM
I like Santa Sangre...Ebert's recent article describes it pretty accurately, so if it sounds like something that would interest you, you should definitely check it out.

El Topo isn't as good. It's got some really kickass stuff in it, but there's also a lot of symbolism that's just...well, too obvious for my tastes. But it's intensely memorable. If you're into cult classics, it's worth owning. If you just want to see it, most major cities will have a cult or underground video store with a copy for rent. It's not too hard to get ahold of.

Supposedly, the film he's getting to work on now is The Son Of El Topo. And Marilyn Manson is very much involved.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: jasper_window on September 04, 2003, 08:25:11 AM
I just saw Irreversible a few eeks ago and that was very disturbing.  Henry: Portrait of a serial Killer when I first saw it.  The Pianist left me shaken for awhile as well.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Raikus on September 04, 2003, 10:07:22 AM
Wow. 5 pages of disturbing movies and Doom Generation hasn't been mentioned yet.

That's my #1.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on September 04, 2003, 11:20:13 AM
Quote from: Raikus
Wow. 5 pages of disturbing movies and Doom Generation hasn't been mentioned yet.

That's my #1.




.never seen it.....what makes it disturbing?.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: RegularKarate on September 04, 2003, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: Raikus
Wow. 5 pages of disturbing movies and Doom Generation hasn't been mentioned yet.
That's my #1.



Quote from: NEON MERCURY
[
.never seen it.....what makes it disturbing?.


How much it sucks.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Raikus on September 04, 2003, 01:38:59 PM
Of the things I remember, a man eating his own semen and a penis getting cut off with gardening shears.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Monsoon on September 22, 2003, 12:21:10 AM
Actually I was dead serious about finding "Kids" disturbing.  I'm not a big fan of films classified as horror and such so I haven't seen too many and the ones I have seen haven't managed to freak me out.  Teenagers with no moral compass, however, do freak me out and I knew kids like that at the time, so it seemed real to me.  I'm pretty naive to some film genres so maybe this comes off as a touch nerdy or something but I've seen my share of debauchery and all I know is that that film, in 1996 or whever it came out did it's job of adequately disturbing me.  When I saw "Bully" it really didn't have the same effect so I'm probably quite a bit more jaded now.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: NEON MERCURY on October 14, 2003, 10:17:30 PM
..recently i watched Bad lieutenant (rated )..and was wondering the diferences between the unrated one..

also if there ever was a film  that fits criterion's criteria it would be this one ..
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Xixax on October 14, 2003, 10:25:03 PM
Wow. Caught a nice one on Sundance last night. Fits well into the "disturbing" vein, especially because it's a documentary!

http://www.thecucumberincident.com
Title: disturbing films
Post by: freakerdude on October 15, 2003, 09:51:59 AM
Blue Velvet - pure art

8MM - a very dark but good movie IMO

Motel Hell - disturbingly good

Boxing Helena - too disturbing to watch again

Bad Lieutenant - just flat out bad.....I mean disturbingly bad!
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on January 24, 2004, 11:22:23 PM
The Piano Teacher sucked ass.  That is all.  Carry on.  And without those italics in that first sentence, that could really be misconstrued.  Um, yes.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: billybrown on January 25, 2004, 12:24:31 AM
Quote from: freakerdude
Blue Velvet - pure art

8MM - a very dark but good movie IMO

Motel Hell - disturbingly good

Boxing Helena - too disturbing to watch again

Bad Lieutenant - just flat out bad.....I mean disturbingly bad!



So, 8MM is "good", but Bad Lieutenant is "just flat out bad"?!?! RRRRight.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: billybrown on January 25, 2004, 12:42:17 AM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Piano Teacher sucked ass.  That is all.  Carry on.  And without those italics in that first sentence, that could really be misconstrued.  Um, yes.



The Piano Teacher hardly sucked ass... Isabelle Huppert gave a performance for the ages.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on January 25, 2004, 12:47:31 AM
Quote from: billybrown
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Piano Teacher sucked ass.  That is all.  Carry on.  And without those italics in that first sentence, that could really be misconstrued.  Um, yes.



The Piano Teacher hardly sucked ass... Isabelle Huppert gave a performance for the ages.

That she did.  But the film still sucked ass.  And the Edit button is your friend.  :)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: snaporaz on January 25, 2004, 01:38:19 AM
Quote from: Monsoon
Actually I was dead serious about finding "Kids" disturbing.  I'm not a big fan of films classified as horror and such so I haven't seen too many and the ones I have seen haven't managed to freak me out.  Teenagers with no moral compass, however, do freak me out and I knew kids like that at the time, so it seemed real to me.  I'm pretty naive to some film genres so maybe this comes off as a touch nerdy or something but I've seen my share of debauchery and all I know is that that film, in 1996 or whever it came out did it's job of adequately disturbing me.  When I saw "Bully" it really didn't have the same effect so I'm probably quite a bit more jaded now.


that's exaclty how i feel about that film. i know lots of fellow critics like to say that all that movie does it "try to shock you". well, that's the point, but i feel that most people, or at least the severely sheltered teenagers, have never come across kids like the ones portrayed in the film. it's supposed to be real, and often it is, and that - to me - is what makes it shocking. the shit that happened in that movie is not unlike my high school years. except not that much shit happened in the span of one day. but still...

Quote from: Xixax
Fits well into the "disturbing" vein, especially because it's a documentary!


that reminds me...

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000SXK0Y.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: billybrown on January 25, 2004, 10:16:59 AM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
Quote from: billybrown
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The Piano Teacher sucked ass.  That is all.  Carry on.  And without those italics in that first sentence, that could really be misconstrued.  Um, yes.



The Piano Teacher hardly sucked ass... Isabelle Huppert gave a performance for the ages.

That she did.  But the film still sucked ass.  And the Edit button is your friend.  :)



The edit button isn't my friend, you are  :-D ... and the film didn't suck ass.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on January 25, 2004, 01:18:19 PM
The dialogue was horrible (for one, the constant proclamations of "I love you!" when it's obvious neither of these two fucked up people have any idea what love is), the characters were unbelievable and not to mention unsympathetic, and each further event in the film was meant only to shock (semen sniffing, pissing while watching others have sex, glass in that poor girl's coat pocket, putting the moves on her mother), with very little if any at all foundation in reality.  But that's just one man's opinion.  Problem is, pretty much everyone else who exited the theatre last night shared my opinion.  A three-word review my friend and I settled on was "What the fuck?"
Title: disturbing films
Post by: billybrown on January 26, 2004, 01:26:54 PM
Quote from: Onomatopoeia
The dialogue was horrible (for one, the constant proclamations of "I love you!" when it's obvious neither of these two fucked up people have any idea what love is), the characters were unbelievable and not to mention unsympathetic, and each further event in the film was meant only to shock (semen sniffing, pissing while watching others have sex, glass in that poor girl's coat pocket, putting the moves on her mother), with very little if any at all foundation in reality.  But that's just one man's opinion.  Problem is, pretty much everyone else who exited the theatre last night shared my opinion.  A three-word review my friend and I settled on was "What the fuck?"



Regarding dialogue, some of that can be just not great subtitles and translating as if often the case with a lot of foreign films. As far as the "constant proclomations of 'I love you'' when none of them have any idea about it, so what? More than half of the free world doesn't either... The film had a foundation in reality when you base it on the fact that the woman in question was a highly unbalanced individual who lacked any kind of real emotional development and is weighed down by her dissappointment at her place in life, and her domineering mother, and perhaps a history of poorly connected relationships w/ society.  If you step outside of the picket fence and just watch the news or the world around you, you'll see that people are indeed very messed up and do indeed do a very many messed up things. Happens each and every day. And I can't stand the whole pedestrian criticism of saying a film had "unsympathetic" characters. Many great films contain unsympathetic characters. Big deal. Should the violins and harps and pianos have been blaring each and every moment she broke down so you'd feel bad for her?

Bottom line, IMO, the lead character's performance (Isabelle Huppert) carried the film above and beyond the standard emotional drama, and she completely engaged me, as the viewer, into the insanity that her life was spiralling into from a seemingly normal outward existence at the beginning. Micheal Haneke is a master at depicting an individual's disconnect from society, as well as a great explorer of the human psyche
in all it's fucked up splendor. Films like this, you either like or don't, there's very little in the way of indifference, and that is the point of great art.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Weird. Oh on January 28, 2004, 09:23:48 PM
I would have to go with Capturing the Friedman's as being one of the most disturbing films out there in regard to the topic in which it deals with. I watched this film past Monday and was amazed at the allegations the police brought against Arnie Friedman. THe movie makes you really question what really went down. If the allegations really happend this has to be the most disturbing film because of the non-fictional  nature of the content
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on April 26, 2004, 02:00:07 PM
Felt like I'd bump this thread for the hell of it.  There's something to be said about a well-made art film that portrays either sex or violence in an interesting, compelling way.  There lies the intrigue, and when it works, it's memorable.

The thing to note is, very rarely will you find sex being portrayed as a good thing in America, or violence as a positive thing, well, anywhere else.  That's how backwards our country is.  But then again, you have to wonder about certain other countries, and realize that we all have our hangups, especially after seeing a film as bad as Gojitmal (Lies).  Seeing this film did a few things for me - reminded me of the wonderfulness of The Dreamers, even if it was clunky in places, and the horridness of Ai no corrida, and reminded me that man, some Asians are into freaky shit.  And sadly, if you see Lies, you'll learn that when I say "shit," no pun is intended.

The film centers around a relationship between a 38-year-old man and an 18-year-old schoolgirl.  Their relationship gets closer, they have phone sex, meet, have sex in various hotels, and engage in S/M.  The film lacks any sort of real plot other than their escapades and attempts to avoid the girl's brother.  Most of the time is spent concentrating on them beating each other with the homemade tools they've fashioned -- whips, twigs, sawed-down broom handles, etc.  It's all just very boring, and really serves no point.  The director made the film based on a novel which was also banned in South Korea, just like this film.  He almost got charges brought against him.  He wanted to challenge their way of thinking, but offered nothing to think about.  There's manic camera movement, inserts of audition tapes to lend to a feel of reality, along with the fact that these two are amateurs, as well as voiceovers from the man, who is reading from the novel the book is based on.  This all serves no purpose

The question I pose here is, why?  Why make a film like this, giving credence to the belief that sex in cinema is boring, pointless, and too salacious to ever have a valid reason in showing, and why even post about such an awful movie anyway?  Other than The Dreamers, let's face it, I've never seen a movie with sex as a focus that really did a good job at entertaining.  Boogie Nights doesn't count because it dances around the more graphic elements quite nicely, and I think that is the heart of the issue really.  You can't have it both ways - you can't have this suspension of disbelief and then bring such realistic elements into a film such as graphic human sexuality.  At least -- I've never seen it work too well.

Like I said, in America, people are afraid of sex.  Violence is rarely portrayed as a good thing anywhere, and when it is, it's usually satirical as in American Psycho.  Go down the list of films rates NC-17 for another, and the violent ones you can usually write off as exploitative or just not very good.  Ditto for the sexual-based ones, save maybe Happiness.  Then again, the sexuality in that film didn't have all that much to do with the body, but with ideas that were too dangerous for the MPAA to let pass, and with good reason - a woman sleeping around, a pervert calling women and "coming" up with new adhesives, a boy learning to masturbate, and a father with a serious "Michael Jackson"-level problem, to put it lightly.

The difference, I think, is in a movie like Scarlet Diva, which, while it may be no Citizen Kane, it is admirable in its own right, because the lead bore her body and soul (irony not being lost on us for Anna's comment that she doesn't want to be an actress as she's constantly asked to show her tits), and was able to even talk with her family about it.  It shows the differences between American and European cultures - how they're comfortable with that kind of sexuality, and we simply are not.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: pete on April 26, 2004, 02:19:12 PM
do you really think you can say that Americans are afraid of sex and violence?  you don't think violence is made fun and sex is fetishized in movies?
sex is portrayed as a bad thing only in horror movies, I thought.  in most other cases sex seems pretty pleasurable to me, even a bit glamourized.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on April 26, 2004, 02:30:57 PM
The thing I'm trying to zero in on here is the fact that whenever sex is portrayed as positive, it is censored.  Whenever it is seedy and wrought with consequences, or never portrayed healthily (a la American Pie), it's allowed a pass.  I didn't say they're afraid of it, but they glamorize violence over sex if anything, in my opinion.

The classic example IS the horror film where only virgins survive, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the drama where a little boobie gets an R rating, and Heaven forbid they show male genetalia, but you can blow off as many heads (I know how that sounds -- get your mind out of the gutter) or say as many naughty words as you want, and still get a PG-13 (unless it's fuck -- which, uh-oh, is sexual).  Unfortunately, I am reminded of Halloween (a horrible movie, but that's beside the point).  Michael's sister is getting it on with her boyfriend, Mikey sees this and goes apeshit, and we're subjected to a plethora of these movies on the shaky premise that sex is bad, even sex in a healthy relationship is bad, and the only good sex, is that which is seedy, done in the night shadows of neon lights and such.  Oh, and you'll be killed by an unstoppable demon if you don't cease and desist.

We have these conventions, is all, where nothing normally considered healthy is praised, yet it is usually the most normal-seeming, inwardly-fucked-up people who cast these aspersions on others as to how they think they should behave.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: modage on April 26, 2004, 05:47:53 PM
Halloween is good.  That is all.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: MacGuffin on September 14, 2004, 08:31:02 PM
Film on Cat Torture Draws Protesters in Toronto

Protesters urged ticket-holders outside a Toronto cinema on Tuesday to boycott a documentary about a vicious animal cruelty case in which three friends filmed the skinning of a live cat as an alleged art project.

Freedom for Animals, a Toronto group, has organized daily protests at the Toronto International Film Festival. Nearly 100 animal lovers went to Tuesday's demonstration when "Casuistry: The Art of Killing a Cat" made its world premiere.

The 91-minute documentary contains interviews with the three cat killers -- Jesse Power, Anthony Wennekers and Matt Kaczorowski -- as well as animal activists, artists, police and journalists. It does not show the cat's mutilation and death.
 
Power enlisted Wennekers and Kaczorowski in May 2001 to make a video that Power, an ex-vegetarian, said was an artistic statement about the suffering of animals used for meat.

They filmed a cat as they tempted it with a mouse, then skinned and decapitated and disemboweled it, and left its body dangling from the ceiling. Power intended to eat the cat, but never got the chance. The skinned cat was found in the beer fridge of the house where he lived.

"I never got to eat this cat, but a lot of other people are feasting off it," Power said in "Casuistry" -- which means misleadingly subtle reasoning.

The three eventually pleaded guilty to animal cruelty and mischief charges. Animal rights activists were incensed when they received minimal jail time.

Leading up to the film festival, animal rights activists had demanded that "Casuistry" be pulled from the program.

"This so-called 'documentary', is again shocking people because it is giving a platform to Mr. Power," said Suzanne Lahaie, Freedom for Animals co-founder.

But festival co-director Noah Cowan rejected the calls. "Film festivals exist, in part, to generate intelligent, reasoned discussion, not to stifle it," he said in a statement before the festival began.

Organizers said the two scheduled screenings will go ahead despite a phone threat to a staff member to "skin him alive" and "shove knives in his eyes."

Passersby looked on with curiosity at Tuesday's protest, while that very curiosity convinced some to buy tickets.

Michelle Dent, a psychology student, said she wanted to see the story behind the "anti-social and violent act" even if none of the graphic footage from Power's 17-minute video is shown.

Director Zev Asher chose to show the transcript of the court text of the videotape in sections throughout the film.

He told Reuters this way would be "more effective in evoking the stark horror that these guys were involved in."

Asher said he didn't believe his documentary glorified the so-called art project, but he made the film because he was fascinated by the international media attention it caused.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on September 14, 2004, 10:20:55 PM
Of course it was a stupid and disgusting thing to do. Why don't we just skin a human being alive to artistically represent the suffering of human beings...

But let the movie be seen... I doubt the protestors even know if the documentary glorifies the act (that would be pretty hard to do).
Title: disturbing films
Post by: coffeebeetle on September 15, 2004, 11:52:32 AM
Quote from: ono.
Felt like I'd bump this thread for the hell of it.  There's something to be said about a well-made art film that portrays either sex or violence in an interesting, compelling way.  There lies the intrigue, and when it works, it's memorable.

The thing to note is, very rarely will you find sex being portrayed as a good thing in America, or violence as a positive thing, well, anywhere else.  That's how backwards our country is.  But then again, you have to wonder about certain other countries, and realize that we all have our hangups, especially after seeing a film as bad as Gojitmal (Lies).  Seeing this film did a few things for me - reminded me of the wonderfulness of The Dreamers, even if it was clunky in places, and the horridness of Ai no corrida, and reminded me that man, some Asians are into freaky shit.  And sadly, if you see Lies, you'll learn that when I say "shit," no pun is intended.

The film centers around a relationship between a 38-year-old man and an 18-year-old schoolgirl.  Their relationship gets closer, they have phone sex, meet, have sex in various hotels, and engage in S/M.  The film lacks any sort of real plot other than their escapades and attempts to avoid the girl's brother.  Most of the time is spent concentrating on them beating each other with the homemade tools they've fashioned -- whips, twigs, sawed-down broom handles, etc.  It's all just very boring, and really serves no point.  The director made the film based on a novel which was also banned in South Korea, just like this film.  He almost got charges brought against him.  He wanted to challenge their way of thinking, but offered nothing to think about.  There's manic camera movement, inserts of audition tapes to lend to a feel of reality, along with the fact that these two are amateurs, as well as voiceovers from the man, who is reading from the novel the book is based on.  This all serves no purpose

The question I pose here is, why?  Why make a film like this, giving credence to the belief that sex in cinema is boring, pointless, and too salacious to ever have a valid reason in showing, and why even post about such an awful movie anyway?  Other than The Dreamers, let's face it, I've never seen a movie with sex as a focus that really did a good job at entertaining.  Boogie Nights doesn't count because it dances around the more graphic elements quite nicely, and I think that is the heart of the issue really.  You can't have it both ways - you can't have this suspension of disbelief and then bring such realistic elements into a film such as graphic human sexuality.  At least -- I've never seen it work too well.

Like I said, in America, people are afraid of sex.  Violence is rarely portrayed as a good thing anywhere, and when it is, it's usually satirical as in American Psycho.  Go down the list of films rates NC-17 for another, and the violent ones you can usually write off as exploitative or just not very good.  Ditto for the sexual-based ones, save maybe Happiness.  Then again, the sexuality in that film didn't have all that much to do with the body, but with ideas that were too dangerous for the MPAA to let pass, and with good reason - a woman sleeping around, a pervert calling women and "coming" up with new adhesives, a boy learning to masturbate, and a father with a serious "Michael Jackson"-level problem, to put it lightly.

The difference, I think, is in a movie like Scarlet Diva, which, while it may be no Citizen Kane, it is admirable in its own right, because the lead bore her body and soul (irony not being lost on us for Anna's comment that she doesn't want to be an actress as she's constantly asked to show her tits), and was able to even talk with her family about it.  It shows the differences between American and European cultures - how they're comfortable with that kind of sexuality, and we simply are not.


Well put Ono.  However, one film comes to mind that uses sex to advance the plot and add at least a modicum of depth to the characters: Secretary.  I'll add this though: some people might not find what those characters do explicit, in which case this film doesn't count.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Pubrick on September 15, 2004, 12:09:14 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
But let the movie be seen... I doubt the protestors even know if the documentary glorifies the act (that would be pretty hard to do).

of course, we don't hav a choice do we. if it's made, it must be shown.

really tho, sum ppl are just too ____ to live.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: 03 on January 14, 2005, 12:26:22 AM
men behind the sun
hell house
the short films of the vienna aktionists
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Myxo on January 14, 2005, 02:21:03 PM
I'd like to nominate a scene..

American History X.. the curbing..
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Dtm115300 on January 15, 2005, 01:01:10 AM
That was a pretty powerful scene.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: cine on January 15, 2005, 01:05:45 AM
talk about curbing your attitude..  :yabbse-lipsrsealed:
Title: disturbing films
Post by: socketlevel on January 15, 2005, 04:04:22 AM
Quote from: Myxomatosis
I'd like to nominate a scene..

American History X.. the curbing..


we call that smiley, cause you'll have a perma smile afterward.

-sl-
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 15, 2005, 10:29:57 AM
Quote from: socketlevel
we call that smiley, cause you'll have a perma smile afterward.

Who's "we"? Nazis?
Title: disturbing films
Post by: SiliasRuby on March 26, 2005, 04:59:59 PM
I just watched Irreversible last night. I borrowed it from a from a good friend of mine. God, it blew me away and scared the living shit out of me. The only other film that scared me and made me not want to go to bed right away was eraserhead. Gummo was really disturbing but I really didn't like it and of course A Clockwork Orange is Genius. I also was really impressed with American History X but it has been a while since I've seen it.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Thrindle on March 26, 2005, 05:38:01 PM
Bastard Out of Carolina.  Ugh.  There are scenes that are permanently etched into my brain.  One movie I wish I never saw.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Finn on March 26, 2005, 06:22:38 PM
Then something tells me the dvd cover doesn't exactly depict the movie appropriately...

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1572526807.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Thrindle on March 26, 2005, 06:25:51 PM
Oh wow.  No, it certainly does not.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: squints on March 26, 2005, 11:03:03 PM
Why so much Gummo bashing? i will agree..there's is something wrong with Larry Clark..(ken park was rubbish)..but i liked Gummo, there aren't too many movies out there like it.....Julien Donkey-boy, however, is almost unwatchable in my opinon
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Pubrick on March 26, 2005, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: squints
Why so much Gummo bashing? i will agree..there's is something wrong with Larry Clark..(ken park was rubbish)..but i liked Gummo, there aren't too many movies out there like it.....Julien Donkey-boy, however, is almost unwatchable in my opinon

gummo has nothing to do with larry clark. and neither does julien donkey boy. if ur gonna defend sumthing, try to know sumthing about it before embarrassing urself again.

man, u make borjabah look like 03. why does this site attract ppl like u, i wonder.. fools, that is.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: squints on March 26, 2005, 11:33:51 PM
harmony korine...sorry pal...all you xixax bullies are hurting my feelings...i might just tell the principal
Title: disturbing films
Post by: cine on March 26, 2005, 11:38:06 PM
i'm the principal.  what seems to be the problem?
Title: disturbing films
Post by: squints on March 26, 2005, 11:52:33 PM
i can't seem to avoid these internet squabbles...is the world of film webboards  really full of such pretentious douchebags? (i think i just answered my own question)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: cine on March 26, 2005, 11:59:44 PM
Quote from: squints
is the world of film webboards  really full of such pretentious douchebags?

nope. just ignorant newbies.

now get back to class. and get some eye glasses.
Title: disturbing films
Post by: squints on March 27, 2005, 12:03:29 AM
fair enough...



cock
Title: disturbing films
Post by: ono on March 27, 2005, 12:12:37 AM
Quote from: squints
fair enough...



cock

(http://www.xixax.com/images/avatars/708274141422f4701716da.jpg)
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Weak2ndAct on March 27, 2005, 04:32:44 AM
Quote from: SiliasRuby
I just watched Irreversible last night.

Now go see 'I Stand Alone,' Noe's previous film (which stars the same character from the first scene).
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Gabe on March 29, 2005, 06:34:30 PM
Quote from: Pubrick


man, u make borjabah look like 03. why does this site attract ppl like u, i wonder.. fools, that is.


Ho snap! a couple people should be ashamed of themselves. . .

That was the first time I've been referred to as 'Borjabah' I have to say, I didn't like it.  :yabbse-undecided:
Title: disturbing films
Post by: Stefen on March 29, 2005, 08:38:38 PM
keep your head up squints.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: modage on October 03, 2006, 07:31:56 PM
ATTN: NYC
(http://www.ifccenter.com//images/promotion/gaspar1_series.jpg)
http://www.ifccenter.com/index

i will not be attending this event.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: polkablues on October 03, 2006, 09:15:57 PM
ATTN: NYC
(http://www.ifccenter.com//images/promotion/gaspar1_series.jpg)
http://www.ifccenter.com/index

i will not be attending this event.

Why not?  Do you not have the balls?
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d179/polkablues/colbert_stephen-1ss.jpg)
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: squints on October 05, 2006, 11:42:24 AM
I don't blame him, Salo is the only movie i've ever seen that put me in the position of "If i don't turn away from the screen now I'm going to vomit"
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: ASmith on October 05, 2006, 09:32:04 PM
I found Gerry to be one of the most disturbing films I've seen in a while. 

**SPOILERS henceforth**
There's no zombie blood being spilled, but you get that same sick feeling in your stomach as if there was.  As the character's situation worsens, and as they dig themselves into a deeper hole, you're left with little to do (intentionally) but ponder their situation and repeatedly ask yourself, "what the fuck are they doing?  What the fuck are they gonna do?"

It's been a few months since I've seen the film, but whenever I see any type of barren landscape, be it a large, empty city park or a photo of the desert, that sinking feeling returns.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Reelist on November 27, 2011, 02:43:53 PM
Just saw "I Stand Alone"

Me too. I was in the mood for a real FTW movie, or so I thought. For about the first 20 minutes I found myself laughing a lot at what he was saying in the voiceover. How he just fucking berates his wife and her Mom, it seemed harmless because it was just going on inside his head. Then at about the 30 minute mark shit gets real and it's hard to find anything redeeming about this guy. At first I was kind of charmed by it, I hadn't been entertained by a movie about a lonely old guy since 'About Schmidt', but once you see what this guys capable of, you can't relate to his worldview because you know he's not just joking and really is hellbent on causing pain to anybody who crosses him. The worst part about it is in the end, it's not strangers that he does the most harm to, but his own family.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Reelist on June 09, 2012, 10:14:25 PM
The 5 most disturbing Documentaries I've ever seen, in no particular order, are:

1.Jonestown: The Life and Death of the People's Temple
2.Capturing The Friedmans
3.Deliver us From Evil
4.Paradise Lost
5.Dear Zachary

I'm open to suggestions. Can't get enough of documentaries lately, especially True crime.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: 72teeth on June 09, 2012, 10:28:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmOBNnz9Wms

..in my top 20 films of all time i think
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: polkablues on June 10, 2012, 02:05:54 AM
Titicut Follies.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Reelist on June 10, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
Thanks for that, 72. Still haven't seen it in its entirety, but soooo good. Chilling.

Titticut is def. one I've been meaning to get to, but as of yet, it's hard to find.

Last night I watched 'Sick: The Life and Death of Bob Flanagan, supermasochist'

here's a tip, don't go out of your way to look for the 'most disturbing' or 'most shocking' of anything on the internet. What you find will most definitely meet the quota, and in many cases in ways you'd never imagine.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Pedro on June 11, 2012, 01:56:22 AM
Titticut is def. one I've been meaning to get to, but as of yet, it's hard to find.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC33HqwJMnM

Enjoy!  Or something...
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Reelist on September 15, 2012, 10:36:54 PM
Paul Dano, Brad Renfro, and Brian Cox in..



(http://www.bollycircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/lie.jpg)
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: mogwai on September 16, 2012, 11:37:54 AM
I found "Shame" to be as disturbing as "Requiem for a dream".
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: KJ on September 16, 2012, 02:24:36 PM
But then again..
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: MacGuffin on August 08, 2013, 05:31:39 AM
Totally Fucked Up: Films That Disturb and Offend


http://www.listal.com/list/totally-fcked-up-films-disturb
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Pubrick on August 08, 2013, 10:31:44 AM
well that was certainly long.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: jenkins on August 08, 2013, 12:26:21 PM
...?


Added by Severin Severin
on 25 Aug 2012
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Mel on August 30, 2013, 03:59:31 PM
This could be split into two camps (subjective depending on individual):
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Mel on February 08, 2014, 02:44:11 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/The_devils_redgrave_reed.png)

"The Devils" is yet another film with reputation that intimidated me unnecessary. This photo is part of the reason - I visualized her eating his intestines in my mind. Film is far from that, I would say that neither violence or nudity are graphical. It is a very beautiful film that stirred controversy only because Christianity is mixed with nudity and violence.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Reelist on February 08, 2014, 04:05:47 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/The_devils_redgrave_reed.png)

"The Devils" is yet another film with reputation that intimidated me unnecessary. This photo is part of the reason - I visualized her eating his intestines in my mind. Film is far from that, I would say that neither violence or nudity are graphical. It is a very beautiful film that stirred controversy only because Christianity is mixed with nudity and violence.

I tried to watch it recently, freaked me out. I had to turn it off, not the kind of disturbing film I consider entertainment.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Mel on February 08, 2014, 05:34:00 PM
I tried to watch it recently, freaked me out. I had to turn it off, not the kind of disturbing film I consider entertainment.

Did you made past plague (first 20 minutes)? This is most graphical part I think. There are few reasons why this films didn't disturb me. Set is very theatrical: four big sets (church, city, monastery and priest's house) and few smaller, scenery is very empty with dominating white brick walls. There is so much going on in background: love, betrayal, corruption, power mongering, fight for life/soul...

Still there is possibility that I do underestimate my guts, when it comes to watching films like that (I was eating spaghetti while watching it).
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Mel on June 26, 2014, 05:27:12 AM
Recent discussion in Horror thread compelled me to re-watch "Martyrs" and "Cannibal Holocaust". This forced me to adjust my understanding of what I consider disturbing. Some of my reactions to those films included "nice CGI" or "I'm not a vegetarian". You can't go much further is respect to violence than that, but that is pretty much the only aspect of those films that can disturb.

I can misquote that, but Mark Kermode asked William Friedkin why "The Exorcist" was accepted by public and "The Devils" not, even though films share many similarities. Answer was: almost every aspect of Russell's film was excessive. Now I think he was right and this can be applied to other disturbing films, examples to follow.

"Irreversible" is attacking audience from so many angles: camerawork, low quality and clarity of images, nauseating music and sound, structure of the film, improvised dialogue that is sometimes very trivial (even stupid). "Possession" is also excessive: naked sets (almost no extras), acting inspired by Grotowski and weird behaviors, dialogues/monologues full of dogmatics, doppelgangers and so on.

My point is that you can be directly hit, even though it is single shot limited to one aspect of the film e.g. violence. Yet it is probably even harder to detach yourself, if you are in the middle of crossfire, being attacked by something else than just violence.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: 03 on April 05, 2015, 05:58:01 PM
spoilers for david gordon green's 'george washington' (not sure about the statute of limitations on this, pretty sure everyone here has seen it)



so I hadn't thought about this in a really long time but I just rewatched the death scene from George Washington and that is hands down the most underrated disturbing scene ever. when i first saw the film, i thought it was very beautifully shot and a very artistic scene, even though it was really sad.

but have any of you guys gone back and watched this scene on its own and actually considered what is being portrayed?
this shit is absolutely horrifying:
a child recieves head trauma that causes hemorrhaging in his BRAIN.
he doesn't realize this and slowly starts to bleed to death.
as his fucking brain is leaking out of his skull into his head he starts to lose physical control
and then mental capability and begins acting erratically as he slowly bleeds to death in front of his friends. and it doesnt help that the actor is amazing and nails it.

i dont know about you guys but that takes the cake for me. i guess what i mean is that if we saw a death in real life where a complete stranger got his head cut off with a machete, or a dude just explodes from gunfire, we'd be like HOLY SHIT thats disgusting and that was like a movie, i cant believe i just saw that, i'm gonna be telling this story for years! but if we saw the aforementioned scene in real life, we'd probaly all need serious therapy and never speak about it for the rest of our lives.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Reelist on April 08, 2015, 08:48:08 AM
I couldn't even read the last half of your post because I've wanted to see it again for so long and am trying to forget what happened
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: Reelist on August 19, 2015, 09:27:32 AM
spoilers for david gordon green's 'george washington' (not sure about the statute of limitations on this, pretty sure everyone here has seen it)

but have any of you guys gone back and watched this scene on its own and actually considered what is being portrayed?
this shit is absolutely horrifying:
a child recieves head trauma that causes hemorrhaging in his BRAIN.
he doesn't realize this and slowly starts to bleed to death.
as his fucking brain is leaking out of his skull into his head he starts to lose physical control
and then mental capability and begins acting erratically as he slowly bleeds to death in front of his friends. and it doesnt help that the actor is amazing and nails it.



I'm glad you brought this up. Watching it recently, I had no idea what happened to his head. You see him fall on the ground and get back up without much struggle or any blood and he seems like he's pulling himself together until he walks into the bathroom stall. After how much beauty and sheer joy the movie exhibits before that, you're just not ready to handle seeing a kid with his brain leaking out of his skull. It really is one of those moments where you aren't quite sure what this filmmaker is doing or even capable of.
Title: Re: disturbing films
Post by: 03 on June 21, 2016, 10:51:31 AM
i have this anthology on vhs.
the fourth part of it, i just found out, is on youtube.
i have no idea why.
proceed with caution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJS5qYmaFS0