Inglourious Basterds [sic]

[KJ]

You must be kidding. If this was something along the lines of Jack or Hook, you'd have a point. You didn't like like it. Still, it's no where close to the worst movie of the year, Tarantino still hasn't made a bad one.

You didn't see Transformers?

The pipe scene was the only bit that put it above of Transformers. 

What?

[Mr. Merrill Lehrl]

The dude you just asked a question takes ~15 months to respond to posts.  I speculate you're going to forget why you asked "what?" by then and the whole thing's going to repeat itself.

[Jeremy Blackman]

Here's a shoutbox conversation about this movie. Some Django (with spoilers), but mostly Basterds.

I'll try to break this up for readability, but I'll leave everything in.



Garam [24|Oct 07:46 PM]:   basterds is my favourite QT film since Jackie Brown
Garam [24|Oct 07:46 PM]:   I enjoyed the irreverence
Garam [24|Oct 07:46 PM]:   thought it was quite pynchony actually
Drenk [24|Oct 07:47 PM]:   It has two good scenes and a lot of filler.
Drenk [24|Oct 07:47 PM]:   And Google traduction for Mélanie Laurent. But it doesn't matter.
Garam [24|Oct 07:47 PM]:   i'm not planning on watching it again in a hurry, but it's not as bad as that
Drenk [24|Oct 07:48 PM]:   No, it was fine when I watched it a second time.
Drenk [24|Oct 07:48 PM]:   It was a huge disappointment the first time, though.
Garam [24|Oct 07:48 PM]:   i'm a world war 2 geek which helps, but i appreciated the strange jarring clashes in tone, though the kill bill style 'nazi killer' subtitles made me cringe, with the samuel l voiceover
Garam [24|Oct 07:49 PM]:   ok. i gave up on tarantino with kill bill so it was a pleasant surprise for me. i didn't watch it till 2011
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:49 PM]:   it scares me that aging artists gravitate toward period pieces
Drenk [24|Oct 07:49 PM]:   I enjoy Kill Bill, but I watched it a long time ago...
Garam [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   the more ww2 period pieces the better
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   makes me fear that when i age i won't understand the world anymore
Garam [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   too many angles too view that war from
Garam [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   and they're our grandpops
Garam [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   to
Garam [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   i'm drunk by the by
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   lol garam you got no probs finding ww2 movies!


jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:51 PM]:   what's your favorite? tough question innit
Drenk [24|Oct 07:51 PM]:   But Basterds and Django are really inferior to Pulp and Jackie. It feels like Tarantino just wants to giggle. Like: aha, blood, it's so cool, haha.
Lottery [24|Oct 07:51 PM]:   Tarantino always just wants to giggle.
Garam [24|Oct 07:51 PM]:   i hate django so fucking much, weirdly. cos it seems people couple those two together a lot
Garam [24|Oct 07:52 PM]:   i'm as interested in that era as much, so no problem there
Drenk [24|Oct 07:52 PM]:   He always wants to giggle, but, I don't know, I feel a soul in Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown.
Lottery [24|Oct 07:52 PM]:   Django seems not as well made in some regards. Feels sloppy. But I enjoyed it.
Drenk [24|Oct 07:52 PM]:   Yes, I always enjoy his movies.
Drenk [24|Oct 07:53 PM]:   I just don't wait too much from him anymore.
Lottery [24|Oct 07:53 PM]:   Same.
Garam [24|Oct 07:54 PM]:   me and my flatmate paused django halfway through cause we had work early the next morning and forgot about resuming it until almost a week after
Drenk [24|Oct 07:55 PM]:   Django is better than Basterds. I like the superhero transformation.
Garam [24|Oct 07:55 PM]:   i have bad memories of strange b-movie sergio leone homage zoom-ins to leo dicaprios unconvincing prepubescent face
Drenk [24|Oct 07:56 PM]:   The only movie where I find DiCaprio truly great is the wolf of wall street, I just don't like this movie at all.
Garam [24|Oct 07:56 PM]:   same. that film is his raging bull. still love it
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:57 PM]:   phones are lot up regarding ww2 movies
Garam [24|Oct 07:57 PM]:   sorry, missed your Q
Garam [24|Oct 07:57 PM]:   allow me to drink and think on it
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:57 PM]:   been wanting to watch this, and don't it sound a bit basterds and a bit django: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041481/
Garam [24|Oct 07:57 PM]:   off the top of my head i'd say come and see


Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 07:57 PM]:   After my Django rewatch, I'd put Basterds above it
Garam [24|Oct 07:58 PM]:   which i've only seen once and have no intention of ever seeing ever again
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 07:58 PM]:   Most of Django's impact is about the first viewing
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 07:58 PM]:   C'mon Basterds is great
Garam [24|Oct 07:59 PM]:   a good part of basterds is the closest there's ever been to a gravity's rainbow adaptation
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 08:00 PM]:   i lean away from period pieces, too easy imo, but i watch them and like them because i'm a goddamn movie citizen
Garam [24|Oct 08:00 PM]:   come on...'scusi' is straight out of pynchon
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 08:00 PM]:   come and see, nice
Drenk [24|Oct 08:00 PM]:   I disagree completely about the gravity's rainbow comparaison.
Drenk [24|Oct 08:01 PM]:   In GR, you know, a lot of stuff happen, people travel. In Basterds, they stay mostly at the same place then they shoot themselves.
Drenk [24|Oct 08:01 PM]:   In GR, you're petrified about mass and instant destruction; in Basterds you're just waiting for nazis to be killed.
Drenk [24|Oct 08:02 PM]:   I'm hating and all, but I like Basterds.
Drenk [24|Oct 08:02 PM]:   Still disappointed that it feels empty to me, expectations are heavy sometimes.
Garam [24|Oct 08:03 PM]:   they travel in parts of GR. All of part 1 is in London, all of part 2 is in France. Basterds definitely has the tone of the more zany, Slothrop driven episodes
Garam [24|Oct 08:03 PM]:   i don't think basterds is even a classic, just good fun for 00s tarantino. still don't think it's close to his 90s stuff
Garam [24|Oct 08:04 PM]:   wayyyy better than django though imo


Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:04 PM]:   I admire the moral confrontationalness of Basterds, certainly don't think it's empty
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:04 PM]:   Tarantino raised a lot of questions about his own depictions of violence
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:05 PM]:   Whether intentionally or not
Drenk [24|Oct 08:05 PM]:   What's the moral confrontation? I don't see it
Garam [24|Oct 08:05 PM]:   i just remembered europa as a runner up great ww2 film that i need to revisit
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:06 PM]:   It's like you're supposed to enjoy this revenge fantasy, but suddenly the Holocaust is in the middle of everything
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:07 PM]:   You have to actually see Nazi faces being melted.
Drenk [24|Oct 08:07 PM]:   You don't see the ending as an orgy? In the theater? It's like an orgasm.
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:07 PM]:   Nope
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:07 PM]:   In that theater scene you're confronted with what the revenge actually has to be. It's thrilling but sickening at the same time.
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:08 PM]:   I hope I'm not alone in that interpretation
Drenk [24|Oct 08:08 PM]:   I'll probably watch it for a third time at some point, but every time it felt like we're supposed to enjoy it.
Drenk [24|Oct 08:08 PM]:   How you see it is way more interesting
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:09 PM]:   The whole movie kind of felt like that for me
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:10 PM]:   The opening setpiece creates this unease that you can't shake
Drenk [24|Oct 08:11 PM]:   I love the first scene, it's horrifying.
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:11 PM]:   The very final scene ("I think this is my masterpiece") is supposed to be the actual victorious revenge moment
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:12 PM]:   There's so much moral complexity in that theater though
Drenk [24|Oct 08:12 PM]:   But the ending never feels like violence to me.
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:12 PM]:   Doesn't the war hero get sickened by the movie?
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:13 PM]:   The scalping and the skull-bashing... certainly we're supposed to be horrified by that, at least a little
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:14 PM]:   Tarantino is not quite that demented; he understands the difference between fun violence and sick violence
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:14 PM]:   (See his Fresh Air interview)
Drenk [24|Oct 08:15 PM]:   Oh, yes, the scalping, definitely. The theater scene is so much bigger before than, just after, the horror of the scalp isn't effective to me.
Drenk [24|Oct 08:15 PM]:   Maybe I'm too much used to violence in movies. I watch people enjoying themselves, I know I'm not amused, I should not be amused, but I'm not horrified either.
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:16 PM]:   It's not a straight-forward revenge fantasy like Kill Bill that you're just supposed to jump on board for...
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:16 PM]:   There's sickness all the way through it


Drenk [24|Oct 08:16 PM]:   I'll listen to the Fresh Air interview
Drenk [24|Oct 08:16 PM]:   What about Django, though?
Drenk [24|Oct 08:17 PM]:   I can understand the ambiguity in Basterds even if it's not effective to me, but Django...
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:17 PM]:   The Fresh Air interview is mostly about Django, and he's pushed on his use of violence in that interview
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:17 PM]:   He talks about how he tried to have 2 distinct types of violence in Django
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:18 PM]:   Violence against the masters, which was supposed to be fun and cartoonish (when that woman flies into the next room for example)
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:18 PM]:   And violence against the slaves, which is always meant to be deeply disturbing
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:18 PM]:   (and is less cartoonish, more realistic)
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:19 PM]:   That division was designed into Django from the beginning
Drenk [24|Oct 08:20 PM]:   Yes, but I wonder if the movie wouldn't be better without the cartoonish violence
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:25 PM]:   Possibly. I have to say that stuff was less fun/exciting on the second watch. Everything felt sadder. Definitely a weakness.
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:26 PM]:   But that first watch was one of the most magical theater experiences I've had in recent memory
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:27 PM]:   Horse dance reaction on the first watch: OMG this is so crazy, this movie just blew my mind, of course the horse is dancing.
Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:28 PM]:   Horse dance reaction on the second watch: Ughh... this is all so sad. Why is the horse dancing?


Jeremy Blackman [24|Oct 08:28 PM]:   *** WARNING - SPOILERS FOR DJANGO & BASTERDS ABOVE ***
N [24|Oct 09:18 PM]:   I like the part with ancora qui
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 10:06 PM]:   good job laying down your perspective jb. and drenk was listening and responding. you guys <3
Jeremy Blackman [25|Oct 01:41 AM]:   
polkablues [25|Oct 01:52 AM]:   You should probably paste that exchange in the actual thread so it doesn't get washed away in the next rain.

[Cloudy]

jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:49 PM]:   it scares me that aging artists gravitate toward period pieces
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 07:50 PM]:   makes me fear that when i age i won't understand the world anymore
jenkins<3 [24|Oct 08:00 PM]:   i lean away from period pieces, too easy imo, but i watch them and like them because i'm a goddamn movie citizen

This subject really strikes a chord with me as well, there are a lot of different reasons why. Here's Kubrick somewhat addressing it, leaving me still unsatisfied and curious:

INTERVIEWER: Your last film was about the twenty-first century. Your next film is about the nineteenth century. Do you think it's significant that you aren't very interested or satisfied with contemporary stories or themes of twentieth-century life?

KUBRICK: It's not a question of my own satisfaction or lack of it, but of the basic purpose of a film, which I believe is one of illumination, of showing the viewer something he can't see any other way. And I think at times this can be best accomplished by staying away from his own immediate environment. This is particularly true when you're dealing in a primarily visual experience, and telling a story through the eyes. You don't find reality only in your own backyard, you know -- in fact, sometimes that's the last place you find it. Another asset about dealing with themes that are either futuristic or historic is that it enables you to make a statement with which you're not personally blinded; it removes the environmental blinkers, in a sense, and gives you a deeper and more objective perspective.

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0069.html

[jenkins]

it's a bit like you've brought dad into the room, he's looking at me with his harsh/tender eyes, and he knows i won't say the right thing, but i gotta give dad my eyes back, for my own sake

kubrick firmly stood in the position that emotions are the foundational flaw of being human. personally i'm hardcore pro emotions. and i think that when you extract from emotions its essential qualities, you find views that humans can fucking miraculously feel the same about, and i think humans sharing emotions is the most interesting and immediate and gut-wrenching and eyes-watering -- look, big context, from a personal sense -- part of us all being human together

i think the difference between illumination and fabrication is tricky. i overthink the hell out of it. because emotions tend to smell it. i think we can spot the difference between an idea and a human. and i'm all for ideas, let's not be crazy. i'm imaginarily responding to an artist who brought benefits into the world of cinema and the world in general, let's be a little crazy

i think he was right. i think he did what cinema can best do, through focusing on removing emotions and observing what was happening from the outside. objectivity ffs. so, acknowledging that subjectivity limits the total perspective, i want to say: it is a foundational flaw kubrick, and i'm sorry it scares you, but there's another way to look at it

a method of stripping fabrication away is telling me exactly what you're fucking seeing, and when you tell me there'll be your feelings, and i'll listen. i'm simply not afraid of any of the challenges kubrick mentions, and i think the challenges are indeed most present when a movie is framed within its own time period

i watch eyes wide shut and it feels contemporary or something but it's a little made up and i wish the world was like that, actually, i really like that movie. when i watch people on sunday it's people being people in berlin in 1930 and some things have changed and some things are the same but anyway i can feel the people in the movie, i can feel the people behind the movie, and i can feel myself sharing feelings with people in a form that kubrick never created

[Reelist]

This conversation is taking more detours than Inglourious Basterds!

[KJ]

We ALL want Johnny Depp, don't we?

Yes indeed. I'd even go see that Once Upon a Time in Mexico because he's  in it.

Let's hope he makes some better movies soon though.

2003 was such a long time ago.