the all-too-infamous kevin smith magnolia

Started by Born Under Punches, May 08, 2003, 09:44:24 AM

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Born Under Punches

May 08, 2003, 09:44:24 AM
does anyone by anyone have a text copy of Kevin Smith's all-too-infamous Magnolia review?  I've heard about it, left and right, but I've never red it and I wonder if any has it.

jasper_window

#1
May 08, 2003, 10:49:20 AM
did you try www.ptanderson.com?  He tears it up.  Saying stuff like he keeps a copy of it to remind him not to do self-indulgent crap, blah, blah, blah.  Which is funy becuase all of his films seem like self-indulgent crap.

TenseAndSober

#2
May 11, 2003, 04:05:06 PM
Kevin Smith ain't shit compared to P.T.  Smith is responsible for some of the worst movies ever made(???Strikes Back or whatever and i thought Dogma was stupid).  I don't give a shit what Smith has to say, especially about a brillant film like Magnolia.

Born Under Punches

#3
May 11, 2003, 06:32:45 PM
Here's the thing.  Smith and Pereira were saying how pretentious Magnolia because it was 3 hours long and full of whip pans.  But wouldn't you agree Smith is tons more pretentious because of J&SBSB and his whole Askewniverse?  

I thought all the Magnoliafan stuff was a chuckle when I first say J&SBSB, but after watching Magnolia for the past week non-stop, I just gotta say that Smith can still be self-deprecating, but can't talk about pretentiousness.

AlguienEstolamiPantalones

#4
May 11, 2003, 11:34:25 PM
as a fan of magnolia, i respect the fuck out of smith for saying this

and P.T.A Would respect him for it.

As he is also someone who has said how he feels and could give a fuck if it jars some people

and again magnolia really is one of those movies that only a small amount of people will get, that does not make them idiots

its just not his thing.

and every time i say that, i always have to stress that a lot of the people who say they love this film, do not get it in the least bit.

i have read reviews of magnolia that make zero sense what so ever, you can tell the writter is talking out of his ass .

because sadlly this film has become a popular name drop for phoneys to use .






but anyways the sad thing about this, this fight has made PTA Fans look like uptight douchebags, when in reality the douchebags amungst us are the ones that just say they like movie to make themselves look deep . The rest of us are not like this at all.

SoNowThen

#5
May 12, 2003, 11:02:42 AM
Well, I guess that's his own opinion.


Now I hope he gets hits by a truck, survives, only to burn to death on the way to the hospital when the ambulance crashes and blows up.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

©brad

#6
May 12, 2003, 11:11:43 AM
Quote from: mogwai posted what some dumb asshole wrote
MAGNOLIA is the worst kind of failure, because it's such a self-conscious, insincere attempt to be "meaningful" and "important", and it fails so badly because P.T. doesn't have his heart in any of it, and it shows.

:(

godardian

#7
May 12, 2003, 01:17:02 PM
I admire Kevin Smith in some ways... but he was just trying to start shit with that Magnolia stuff. It was just cheap backbiting. Smith is an okay to mediocre filmmaker with a lot of half-baked dialectical dialogue that can work (Chasing Amy) or not (Dogma). He is by no means in any position to criticize something of Magnolia's breadth.

I will paraphrase something I read in Salon when it comes to a lot of what puts me off Smith: "The backlash against political correctness in the '90s, which anyone who believes in independent thought could appreciate, began to give rise to a new minority, a minority who couldn't wait to flood the airwaves and printing presses: Assholes. That's right- under the guise of beating back the mind police, people who have their own ugly right wing, misogynistic, dirty-little-boy, quasi-fascist attitudes to air are riding high, and have been for some time now. Political correctness is long dead, but don't ever tell that to the assholes- P.C. is their secret excuse for rants that in any other context would just seem stupid and small."

...I thought Chasing Amy was okay; it questioned all sides and transcended. It wasn't afraid to call liberal reflexes into question; I like that. I thought Jay and Silent Bob, on the other hand, was the worst kind of reactionary moron-pandering. Kevin Smith can be interesting, but he can also be so stupid and cheap and- worst of all- not funny, unless you're a very, very insecure 14-year-old boy.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

polkablues

#8
May 12, 2003, 03:50:22 PM
Are we still doing this?
My house, my rules, my coffee

The Silver Bullet

#9
May 13, 2003, 12:02:55 AM
In some respects I agree with Smith. "If this is what rabid fans are like, then I don't want any." That rings true. Some people freak me out around here when it comes to Anderson. If I was him I would be crying in a corner when most of you people defend him. Opinion is opinion. You have yours, now fucking get over it. Same thing with the manner in which everyone around here wants to kill Brett Ratner. I mean, what the fuck?

That said, I do indeed find the comment made about Anderson not having his heart in the film as somewhat bewildering. I think that for all their flaws, be they few and far between as they are, the one thing they do not lack is heart.

I also found it weird that someone like Smith, or someone who is a fan of Smith, could attack putting too much heart and love into a picture, like that is a bad thing. After all, Chasing Amy is by far the best film Smith has made, and it runs on nothing but heart. Anyway, they are completely different filmmakers. One of them is a filmmaker raised on films, the other is a filmmaker raised on comic books. Comparing them is pretty fucking stupid in the first place. Not that anyone here did that. I'm just saying.
RABBIT n. pl. rab·bits or rabbit[list=1]
  • Any of various long-eared, short-tailed, burrowing mammals of the family Leporidae.
  • A hare.
    [/list:o][/size]

Sal

#10
May 13, 2003, 12:23:27 AM
I'm struck by the quick dismissal of opinion from Smith.  Yes, everybody has one, but not everybody's justified.  That's the whole point.  Can you justify your opinion sensibly, as Smith failed to do?  When you fail to do that, it's invalidated.  And yes, this is art, it is subjective, no opinion is more right than another, so on and so on.  I disagree.  Art is subjective, and the point of justifying your opinion is to articulate how you feel about something, good or bad.  One opinion can become more "right" than another if it has some foundation.

The Silver Bullet

#11
May 13, 2003, 12:51:55 AM
Maybe so, but in this case, both sides [PTA fans and KS fans] were being as childish as each other, so they were about as "right" as each other too.

"Kevin Smith shits on PTA and makes him eat it! Magnolia sucks!"
"Nah! Kevin Smith just wants to be PTA! Magnolia rocks!"

Constructive stuff from either side of the fence there. Claiming that someone is a bad filmmaker does not make someone else a good filmmaker.
RABBIT n. pl. rab·bits or rabbit[list=1]
  • Any of various long-eared, short-tailed, burrowing mammals of the family Leporidae.
  • A hare.
    [/list:o][/size]

godardian

#12
May 13, 2003, 02:46:08 AM
Quote from: mogwai
Quote from: polkabluesAre we still doing this?
Yes. There are Freudians popping up everywhere these days.

In my own defense: Just thank the sweet lord it's not Jungians.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Jeremy Blackman

#13
May 13, 2003, 08:55:31 AM
Quote from: godardianIn my own defense: Just thank the sweet lord it's not Jungians.

If it helps... I like Freud, but I love Jung.

Kev Hoffman

#14
May 13, 2003, 09:41:12 AM
I'm trying to locate a post where Smith said maybe he was a bit too harsh on Magnolia, and he'd give it another chance.  First impressions aren't always the best, remember.  Let us not forget that PTA and Smith have mutually settled their differences, (as evidence I point out the Evening With Kevin Smith DVD) whether or not they like each others films is moot, they can at least respect one another on a different level.  This is an argument too old to be bringing up once again, I think, especially when neither has attacked the other since the incident began 2 years ago (?).
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