Xixax Film Forum

explanatory edit:
I butchered some of the most revelatory posts out of the main master thread and made a new place where we can seriously discuss some themes and references ..

The reasoning behind this stems from excitement about the meaning of all these things. the marketing material is already OVERFLOWING with fodder for analysis.. are we just fanboys or are there only a few of us who are feeling PTA's wavelength a bit stronger than others?

I believe PTA has total control over the material released so far and so it is fair game to talk about the ideas he wants to get across before the movie comes out. For this reason discussion about the script is not allowed, that is not canon.

My other hope for this place is a bit more ambitious.. So bear with me as i rant a little.. As much as i hate name dropping this dude it's the only name anyone here seems to recognise in terms of serious discussion: basically, we should be the Rob Agers of PTA.

Who else is better suited? Right now we're at risk of becoming more like the Harry Knowles. If we can birth one filmmaker who's doing it big (Ghostboy) why can't we at least use our knowledge of PTA to enlighten the webs on our favourite subject now that we'll be getting more traffic? And why wait until PTA is a rotting corpse to start seriously analysing his work? it doesn't have to be boring like a pretentious film study essay, it can be fun too.

and it only enhances everyone's appreciation for the films.

And now my previously posted thoughts on the teasers:



There are parallels within the two teasers (will be referring to the first as T1 and second as T2). Not only the music, but the tone of voice of the person addressing JP. At first i thought that had to be  the master who was talking to him in T1, it sounded exactly like PSH. That must have been intentional. We must think of the voice once again as it played a role in CMBB where it formed Plainview's character as if it was gospel, the word of God being pitted against the word of man quite literally in that film. If he says he's an oilman you will agree, and here the master tells us he's a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist, a theoretical philosopher.. that just tells us he is slick.

let's focus on T1, why is the master not in it. All along we are shown almost direct parallels between the questions and the visuals. Are you mixed up, we see waves crashing, how's your sleeping, we see him drop, do you have nightmares and we see him forming the nipples of his sand statue (sex dream), knife to the throat and boxing it out are done very truthfully with the beach wrestle and sharpening his blade, but my favourite line is how he says "strooong", we see a long line up of very fit young men letting out testosterone. Maybe he has something in him that makes him stronger than we could possibly imagine?

Like Barry Egan that I have just referred to, he is prone to "episodes". The drinking of the torpedo fuel is neat (how he likes it?)  but while everyone else might be sipping it in cups he drinks it in gulps straight from the source. That drives home the idea that he is potentially explosive. The idea of having just lived through a violent episode and not being able to remember it also recalls the ending of CMBB.

But what is it that happened and  where is the master? Well PTA is funny. here we have, at the end of T1, the "master" shot showing us who has been interviewing him.. it's not PSH but some interviewer who merely sounded like him. Most notably, as wilderesque brought to our attention  (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=12202.0) (but no one seemed to give a shit about), this master shot is actually a reference. We'll come back to the concept of familiarity in T2, but in this context, the interviewer offers to help Freddie remember what actually happened and what comes in response to that is the title card. And here is the punchline of T1, it presents the master not as the character but as "the whole picture" - the master shot - and it also refers to the master in the sense of original recording, the master tape. The interviewer is offering to help Freddie find the truth.



But the master can also be the master of ceremonies, the central figure that ushers the plot along. His absence is felt in T1 so we've seen his presence manifest itself in other forms. T2 gives us our first glimpse of the main mang, and it is in this second shot of T2 that he refers to familiarity. I am struck by the strange ornament in the background of this shot that appears like a globe atop a narrow stand, it is similar in shape to the ashtray next to JP in T1's master shot. So there are visual echoes and PSH refers to other sensory echoes.

T2 once again has Freddie starting on a shoreline and the visuals illustrating a question almost literally as he is asked why the sneaking around and that he has wandered from the path. We see PDL again in the red headed female (there'll be heaps of them here), she speaks about inspiration as Freddie sips a drink (more rocket fuel?). Whatever is in the cup, it fuels "that tracking shot" as Freddie charges towards the camera and with his turn locks us inside his head. The ridiculous number of overlaid questions, echoes of magnolia, and an attempt by the master to give Freddie "the whole picture", builds up to an explosive demand for truth as foreseen in T1.

Hopelessly inquisitive.. is a better description for how those surrounding Freddie act towards him. He appears sincere, perhaps naive, but possessing some truth that remains inaccessible and unquantifiable to those around him.

PTA is reaching FMJ levels with this one.

Also, The Master pronounces nuclear "nucular," like George Bush.

P, the impression I got of the first trailer was that Freddy is being interrogated by the Master initially (we just don't see him), then it switches to the army guy asking questions when it gets specific about particular events (the fight on the beach, the missile-alcohol).

Quote from: Sleepless on June 20, 2012, 08:52:50 AM
P, the impression I got of the first trailer was that Freddy is being interrogated by the Master initially (we just don't see him), then it switches to the army guy asking questions when it gets specific about particular events (the fight on the beach, the missile-alcohol).

I'm not sure about this. It sounds to me to be the Navy Officer's voice the entire time, asking questions, reading over JP's file, trying to get to the core of the discussion. I think the reason we don't see PSH in T1 is because PTA is releasing these trailers with an episodic approach - Episode 1 (T1) there was an incident, JP seems unstable, he is having troubles within the navy. Episode 2 (T2) JP seems to have left the navy and is now on the lamb, he seems lost, distraught and without a path. Enter The Master to offer a new way of thinking.  It's like PTA is releasing a full trailer in separate parts. Which brings me to this:

Quote
let's focus on T1, why is the master not in it. All along we are shown almost direct parallels between the questions and the visuals. Are you mixed up, we see waves crashing, how's your sleeping, we see him drop, do you have nightmares and we see him forming the nipples of his sand statue (sex dream), knife to the throat and boxing it out are done very truthfully with the beach wrestle and sharpening his blade, but my favourite line is how he says "strooong", we see a long line up of very fit young men letting out testosterone. Maybe he has something in him that makes him stronger than we could possibly imagine?

I like the insight on the question/visual parallels, but my interpretation on why he says "strong" the way he does differs from yours. To me the interview is joke to him. He doesn't want to be there so for the most part he is telling the officer what he wants to hear. ie: I'm not mixed up, I sleep just fine, I'm strooong. I'd say he doesn't truly believe any of that shit, but rather he is mixed up, he can't sleep and he is lying to himself when he says that his overall health is "strong". He's strong minded in the sense that he is determined to make a new life, but there is a confusion surrounding him, (not remembering the episode, not remembering what he told PSH in T2) that makes him weak. JP is at a crossroads - ready to start anew, but too weak to know how. PSH sees this as an opportunity/easy manipulation.

also:

Quote
Hopelessly inquisitive.. is a better description for how those surrounding Freddie act towards him. He appears sincere, perhaps naive, but possessing some truth that remains inaccessible and unquantifiable to those around him.

Exactly! Well said.

Quote from: Pubrick on June 19, 2012, 11:45:20 PM
PTA is reaching FMJ levels with this one.

Definitely. It's presumptuous to say this based on some youtube clips, but the material we've seen so far certainly looks more than a little like FMJ. That same slightly washed-out look. The white-hot windows (a general Kubrick trademark, I know, but in FMJ they are super hot, the daytime sky is almost always white). Subdued camera movement (so far, and FMJ has its notable exceptions). Lots of locked down shots. No apparent steadicam yet. This could be Malaimare's influence. Tetro is mostly composed of tripod shots (with notable, standout exceptions). I can't recall if this is true of the other two Coppola movies he's shot. But this strikes me as a new direction for PTA.

If this is his FMJ, I sense Freddie might be a combination of both Joker and Leonard. You can see it a little in Joaquim Phoenix's goofy grin, the way he chases that truck... That's Leonard. The "strooong," the chuckling "okay," his hopeless inquisitiveness... That's Joker. In either case a grabastic piece of amphibian shit. And I like the way other characters bleed into his frame. Just this little ghostly haze intruding upon him. Don't know what to make of it. But I like it.

Anyway, that means PSH will be the movie's Hartman. Perhaps a less shout-y Hartman. But providing the same psychological torture. "You will not like me. But the more you hate me, the more you will learn." "World of shit." All that. Digging deeper into Freddie's past and problems. Freddie in the role of recruit, being turned into a Marine. Or in this case, a Marine being turned into an agent of the Cause. Maybe? I think P's idea that "master" may also refer to master copy is apt, especially considering the Scientologistic (?) belief in past reincarnation. The "thetans" from which we all began. The whole "auditing" process, meant to shed a person of his or her past-life traumas and increase their thetan levels. Bringing one closer to his or her master (copy). Of course, we don't know how much the Cause is or is not Scientology, but all this stuff is in there.

Lastly, there's this essay by Bill Krohn about FMJ that's avaiable on The Kubrick Site (http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0104.html). I've copied the last paragraph below. I'm not sure that there's anything to this connection, but I think there might be. I'll have to mull it over a bit. Curious to know what others think. Contains spoilers for Full Metal Jacket.

"I don't want to leave the impression, in concluding, that Kubrick is without masters. He had one, Max Ophuls, who is as present in Full Metal Jacket as he is in an obvious pastiche like Lolita. Hartman's first appearance, for example, visually duplicates the opening sequence of Lola Montes [1955], with Peter Ustinov's ringmaster spieling to the backward-tracking camera as he advances past a line of acrobats standing at attention. William Karl Guerin, In a book on Ophuls, has taught us to be suspicious of this Mephistophellan figure and his twin, the Master of Ceremonies In La Ronde [1950], who subject the other characters and the spectator alike to the seductive rigors of a mise-en-scene designed to illustrate "a sinister conception of man." Traditionally, critics have tended to identify these director surrogates with Ophuls, and Kubrick, who revises his predecessor by killing off Hartman in the middle of the film, might agree with them, but all the ambiguities of Full Metal Jacket are already deployed in Ophuls' late films, where, as Guerin has shown, a single close-up (Simone Signoret in La Ronde, Martins Carol faint and perspiring before her final leap in Lola Montes) is sufficient to derail the Master of Ceremonies' infernal machine. In Full Metal Jacket the close-up of Pyle, insane, signals the imminent death of Kubrick's Master of Ceremonies, which liberates images and characters from the machine of the narrative; and when the narrative begins to function again during the assault on Hue, the close-up of the young sniper shatters the spell, leaving us with those concluding images of the marauding horde, which recalls the Dionysian mobs at of Le Masque and the end of La Maison Tellier episode in Le Plaisir (1951): images of a world without a master of ceremonies."

pub's stuff is spot on. though like doc, i cant count out that it's not master saying "are you mixed up?" can anyone who's read the script confirm this? tagged with spoileries of course for my man blackman.

so ready for ep. Ʒ

aaaaand the nyquil just kicked in(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi600.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt84%2FSVT-GT500%2Fsmileys%2Fsleepcampsmiley.gif&hash=edbaf84fe443e959becf4dd8bf6f5e7a38b03c8c)

Possible Spoilers:


I briefly skimmed the draft I have, trying to find the expression "Are you mixed up?"  I didn't see it.  It is the Master who addresses Freddie in most cases, though there is on instance where someone else does, if memory serves.  It's been too long since I've read it in full.  Unfortunately, the way this PDF is made you can't search the text.  If I have some time to reread it in full I'll report what I come across the second time.

Possible spoilers:

In the draft I read, the line does not appear. The script opened with a scene of Freddie being questioned by a doctor at a hospital to which he has been brought due to physical illness. Not specifically a military/naval doctor. Freddie was not receiving psychological evaluation, which is what the scene in the trailer appears to be. From just the two-odd minutes of footage we've seen so far, it's clear that the 2010 draft of the script has been significantly re-written. Or P.T. didn't shoot the script.

I can't find the link anymore (I thought it had been posted here, but I guess not), but someone out there wrote a blog post comparing that first teaser with some documentary showing WWII soldiers being psychologically evaluated by an army doctor. The layout of the room was practically identical, and the phrase "Are you mixed up?" was taken from that. I really wish I could find that link.

EDIT: here it is - http://dhsayer.blogspot.com/2012/05/looksound-familiar.html?m=1 (http://dhsayer.blogspot.com/2012/05/looksound-familiar.html?m=1)- I had found it through Cigs and Redvines, of course. It was a documentary made by John Huston called Let There Be Light.

^ Damn  :shock:

Quote from: polkablues on July 13, 2012, 12:09:40 PM
I can't find the link anymore (I thought it had been posted here, but I guess not), but someone out there wrote a blog post comparing that first teaser with some documentary showing WWII soldiers being psychologically evaluated by an army doctor. The layout of the room was practically identical, and the phrase "Are you mixed up?" was taken from that. I really wish I could find that link.

EDIT: here it is - http://dhsayer.blogspot.com/2012/05/looksound-familiar.html?m=1 (http://dhsayer.blogspot.com/2012/05/looksound-familiar.html?m=1)- I had found it through Cigs and Redvines, of course. It was a documentary made by John Huston called Let There Be Light.

are you messin with pub? ...

Quote from: Pubrick on June 19, 2012, 11:45:20 PM
Most notably, as wilderesque brought to our attention  (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=12202.0) (but no one seemed to give a shit about), this master shot is actually a reference.

i didnt know bout the "are you mixed up?" line in the doc though.

Yep, flat out missed that thread.

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Everything about this movie is destined to be misunderstood.

For anyone interested in seriously discussing it, I think the key to the poster (other than 72 teef's direct association with a sea vessel) is the parallax distortion on the word master created by the water. It's an effect that jettisons the last two letters into a visible ether, increasing the size while obscuring the underlying presence, depending on position of the observer. As we read left to right we are actually drawn into the light the master is entering, and we realise as this happens (as we fall for the illusion) that what he is and what we see becomes disjointed.

The water itself has been a heavy focus on the trailers, from the shoreline introductions to the voyages on the sea. The font and curvature of the "surface" text as it appears on the white background resembles the label on a bottle of alcohol, like fancy wine, which other than positioning this image as a bottle out to sea (containing a proverbial message?) also throws back to the intoxication of Freddie in the first trailer and the intoxicating effect of the master's words at the end of the second.

Finally, the drop shadow effect on the text and its correspondence with the light highlights the artifice of at least two surfaces. Combined with the extra layer of distortion I have already discussed caused by the water, we are presented with an image that links "the word" and light, and the murky truth somewhere in between. It's a visual treatise on the treachery of images that simply echoes all the themes of the film.

Magritte said ceci n'est pas une pipe, PTA is saying ceci n'est pas une masterpiece. Not yet, it is a poster for one.

Yeah, it's mesmerizing JB. 

I suppose what's so fascinating to watch is PTA's growth over his contemporaries.  He really is now far beyond the reach of other filmmakers of his generation, and I don't see anyone catching up to him anytime soon.  I don't know whether to be sad or elated by this movie, because what does it hold for the future of cinema?  Is PTA part of the dying breed, or does he inspire those to follow in his footsteps?

Re: The name of the ship:

QuoteAletheia (ἀλήθεια) is a Greek word variously translated as "unclosedness", "unconcealedness", "disclosure" or "truth". The literal meaning of the word ἀ–λήθεια is "the state of not being hidden; the state of being evident" and it also implies sincerity, as well as factuality or reality.

It is also the Greek goddess of truth.  Notably, the ship's name is a de-Greekified version of the word/name, spelled "Alethia", without the second e.  A thousand film studies essays just started writing themselves.

Hello, first time posting here. sorry if this has been pointed out already but i noticed this link between the new trailer and the passenger, in the line 'what are you running from'-  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5d0fHAocNM - thought it was kind of interesting,

Quote from: stream on July 28, 2012, 06:49:40 AM
Hello, first time posting here. sorry if this has been pointed out already but i noticed this link between the new trailer and the passenger, in the line 'what are you running from'-  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5d0fHAocNM - thought it was kind of interesting,

Yes... We've already talked about these references. Also that overhead shot of Phoenix on the boat putting his hands out over the water, is a reference to "The Passenger".

The shots of them riding bikes in the desert are straight outta the Opening scene of "Melvin and Howard", the "interview scene" in THE FIRST TRAILER reminds me of the interview scene of JACK NICHOLSON (Again) in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" and those shots at the beach with the Machete, are like a Mix Between I AM CUBA and A THIN RED LINE.

The shot of JP and Hoffman framed between the cell Bars is from "Silence of the Lambs" (again, Jonathan Demme) , The shot of Joaquin with his face against the window reminds me of "The Double Life of Veronique" and that shot of him with the revolver seems like a mix between Martin Sheen in Apocalypse now, deniro in Taxi driver and Johnny Depp in "Fear and Loathing in las vegas".

SIGHS... Finally got that out of my system.... feels good. 


DISCLAIMER: It is no secret that PTA gets inspired by other movies to make his own. Most of the Greatest filmmakers do this (I'm looking at you Tarantino and Scorsese!) , Yet he still has the most original and unique voice in American Cinema at the moment. And that's why he's The Best.

Quotethe "interview scene" in THE FIRST TRAILER reminds me of the interview scene of JACK NICHOLSON (Again) in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest"

Wasn't the general consensus that it recalled The Shining?

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especially with the blown out sunlight in the windows and all.

Quote from: malkovich on July 28, 2012, 12:17:18 PM

Quotethe "interview scene" in THE FIRST TRAILER reminds me of the interview scene of JACK NICHOLSON (Again) in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest"

Wasn't the general consensus that it recalled The Shining?

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especially with the blown out sunlight in the windows and all.

VISUALLY, YES.

But now go watch "One flew over the cuckoo's nest". The way Jack Nicholson answers the questions in a manner that suggests that he's not being serious at all. Like it's a game for him or something. Just go watch it and you'll see how similar it is to Phoenix's interview.

I mean, just look at this:

(https://p.twimg.com/AxO7h2SCAAImY8-.jpg:large)

BONUS:

(https://p.twimg.com/Ay6TuAcCYAEUVVd.jpg:large)


MELVIN AND HOWARD:


(https://p.twimg.com/Ay6VC_kCcAAkyWi.jpg)

Warren Beatty in "REDS"... 

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^ Who's winning that race?... I got my money on Joaquin.

@InTylerWeTrust

MIND BLOWN :shock:

Hi guys!
I'm new here, there are some fantastic posts and observations, so glad I discovered XIXAX!

I have a few observations of my own, and for the sake of cinematic discourse, I'll post them here

First of all the aforementioned scene:
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I have watched it over and over, and it seems the big guy is a patron trying to get his picture taken, but has become restless, presumably because Joaquin Phoenix's character has had him sitting there, for a long time to take a simple picture.
Then Joaquin Phoenix says 'You must understand, I want to get the lighting right!', and starts to "fix" the gentlemans tie for the "photo", where the man responds only when he realises Joaquin is actually trying to strangle him rather than fix his tie.

I've seen some great visual comparisons, especially with Melvin & Howard, which I haven't seen before, Kudos! will definitely check that out.

I have some small comparisons as well.

First of all, this shot:
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a slow creeping tracking shot when The Master is typing

brings to mind another slow creeping tracking shot in The Shining, when Jack Torrance is typing (time 00:00 - 00:14)



Also, i don't know if this has been mentioned already, however :
These 2 shots from the 1st Teaser (Top)
closely resemble the lighting from 2001: A Space Odyssey when David Bowman is on his personal mission of disembling HAL. (Middle)
Also the shot placement, brings to mind Kubrick's previous film Dr. Strangelove, and the missiles in the planes fuselage (Bottom)
Even though the shot from The Master teaser is most presumably on a Ship or a Submarine.

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Hopefully I brought something new to the forum, I look forward to discussing The Master and the work of PTA (My favorite contemperary filmmaker) also the work of Kubrick (My favorite filmmaker) and much more on the site!

This thread rules! Welcome Heywood Jablowme

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 02, 2012, 03:21:29 PM
Because just like Howard Hughes, L. Ron Hubbard liked the dessert... He spent sometime (Again, just like Hughes) riding bikes in the desert.

"I like the dessert, is clean" - Howard Hughes.

"I like the dessert, is delicious." - Squints.

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To be honest, I like the first one better.

I really don't like that poster.  It makes no sense. I don't understand this design at all.  If you had that portrait of the three take up the whole poster with the colors and look of the 50s like we've seen in the trailers, then that would have been a beautiful poster.  The boring blue with no kind of shading or texture with a repeating image doesn't come across as a professional poster. I think it's worse than that Tree of Life poster with Brad Pitt skipping rocks on the pond.

It's like a kaleidoscope.  I really like it.  Goes to the perceptions of how people see things and blah blah blah.  It's the same, but it's different each time, too.  And more blah blah blah.

I don't mind the kaleidoscope. It's the boring blue that I hate. The cinematography is fantastic in the trailers. Why wouldn't you try to imitate that? Or why would you saturate the image with blue?

Quote from: Brando on August 06, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
Or why would you saturate the image with blue?

Seeing as PTA usually has complete control over promotional material, this is a question that's exciting to actually try to answer, instead of presuming there's no particular reason.

So, I dunno, something to do with the sea motif that'll obviously soak up the film? The poster seems to wave. The kaleidoscope also brings my thoughts to drunken vision.

Quote from: Just Withnail on August 06, 2012, 06:05:50 PM

Quote from: Brando on August 06, 2012, 05:51:09 PM
Or why would you saturate the image with blue?

Seeing as PTA usually has complete control over promotional material, this is a question that's exciting to actually try to answer, instead of presuming there's no particular reason.

So, I dunno, something to do with the sea motif that'll obviously soak up the film? The poster seems to wave. The kaleidoscope also brings my thoughts to drunken vision.

I'm sure there is a concept behind the design which PTA would be apart of. I'm not talking about the concept. I'm talking about the execution. A poster design can have a brilliant concept behind it but if the execution is horrible then the design is horrible. I find the execution simple and not professional.

Quote from: Just Withnail on August 06, 2012, 06:05:50 PM
The kaleidoscope also brings my thoughts to drunken vision.

This!

it looks timeless. fantastic  :yabbse-thumbup:

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I like it.

It follows in the very old art tradition of shaping human figures into triangles (see below). The kaleidoscope, intentionally or not, sort of has the effect of obfuscating who is at the top of the pyramid, so to speak.


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathematicianspictures.com%2Fimages_200%2F200w_MATH_P_DVMON.jpg&hash=bd8edf6ba23a765646d497624cda6ee988351859)


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flamwar.com%2Fpix1%2Fpi1%2Fa.jpg&hash=2939db372a42f8031c47e37de67aae08bcada9df)

Yikes, I think there's an extra space or two between PSH's name and Amy Adams's name. Does anyone else see that?

I think the poster might be referring to power struggle i.e. who has power/control over who, and it looks like at some points that Amy Adams and Joaquin Phoenix have control over Hoffman (being above him) but Hoffman might have control over them (him being above them), I dunno I'm speculating.

I agree, that's what I was getting at with the "top of the pyramid" thing. In the primary pyramid, PSH is on top, but it becomes ambiguous when your eye starts wandering. I really wonder how much of that is intentional.

Ahh okay, now I get the pyramid reference, I'm actually thinking this was intentional though Jeremy, otherwise why would they go with this design? It's a very specific design, and doesn't really reveal anything else other than the three main characters and perhaps this power struggle idea amongst them

we don't have to like everything about this film. I'm sure they'll come up with a better poster later.

Quote from: HeywoodRFloyd on August 06, 2012, 07:52:15 PM
Ahh okay, now I get the pyramid reference, I'm actually thinking this was intentional though Jeremy, otherwise why would they go with this design? It's a very specific design, and doesn't really reveal anything else other than the three main characters and perhaps this power struggle idea amongst them

I worded that poorly, but I am indeed hoping it's intentional. Let's say intentional until proven unintentional.

Quote from: Brando on August 06, 2012, 04:42:34 PM
If you had that portrait of the three take up the whole poster with the colors and look of the 50s like we've seen in the trailers, then that would have been a beautiful poster.

agreed. i hate the blue. it also reminds me of someone who just discovered new filters and soft focus or something.

it's the constipated there will be blood poster all over again, where the teaser poster destroys the latter.

Spoiler for JB ( not really anyone else. Cloudy, I guess.. )

Quote from: Pozer on August 06, 2012, 10:42:27 PM
it also reminds me of someone who just discovered new filters and soft focus or something.

That's another interesting correlation with Freddie and his knack for photography. It's like the portraits he was taking in the department store before he met these two. I wonder if he even shot and developed it himself, in the movie..

I do appreciate that.

"There's 3 of them and you could look at it as Hoffman in the topmost OR Phoenix in the topmost...but not Adams. Strange how that is."

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 06, 2012, 07:48:12 PM
I agree, that's what I was getting at with the "top of the pyramid" thing. In the primary pyramid, PSH is on top, but it becomes ambiguous when your eye starts wandering. I really wonder how much of that is intentional.

In Scientology we have a magic triangle—only we don't call it a magic triangle. It is just called ARC.

Life has three component parts: affinity, reality and communication. These form a triangle—A-R-C. They are interdependent to such a degree that if you interrupt any one of them, you will interrupt the flow of the other two.

Don't have much to add, but: multiple selves/past selves, a few becoming a crowd, and the blue makes JP's suit look like Barry Egan's.

(https://p.twimg.com/AzuPxaTCUAA3KKG.jpg:large)

yeah tyler was the first one who spotted the passenger and the double life of veronique........ :yabbse-thumbdown:

Hi! Welcome! Here's a thread in which to say a bit more about yourself: http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=2.930 (We should probably put that in a more obvious place, since no one seems to see it until one of us links it... it's hidden in the Xix & Xax part of the forum)

I know what you mean about that close-up. Somehow, Joaquin Phoenix's eyes seem larger and lighter/greener, his eyebrows thicker, which lends a sense of deepness to his face that made him unrecognizable for a split-second when that shot was revealed. For sure a part of that is his performance and that permanent half-scowl he's rockin' in this movie, but it's interesting to wonder whether something about it being shot on 65mm accentuated something about his eyes...

I'm also quite fascinated by the way the shoulder of the officer is blurred in that shot. I wonder if the camera was actually quite far away with a long lens, which would have the effect of flattening Joaquin's face a little bit, which might add to the sense of a little-something-different about it.

There's more to it than it just being shot on 65mm, though... the color scheme in this movie leans a touch toward Technicolor and there's quite a bit of diffusion to the image in some shots, leading the highlights to glow and bleed a bit. I adore that. And that shot of the three kids getting their picture taken... that doesn't even look like it belongs in a modern movie. It feels lifted straight out of a 1950s film. PTA and Mihai Malaimare Jr. (MMJ?) absolutely nailed the period look.

The lighting is certainly reminiscent of that bright carbon arc lighting from movies of that period when lenses and film stocks were slower.

The extreme blurring could be a side effect of having to use longer lenses with 65mm shooting. I know that with 35mm anamorphic you have to use a lens twice as long to get same the field of view as Super 35, which produces a shallower DOF at the same stop. I believe the same is true of shooting 5-perf 65mm vs Super 35. I think the juxtaposition of the classic look with darker subject material is intentional.

Quote from: matt35mm on August 10, 2012, 08:18:13 PM

I know what you mean about that close-up. Somehow, Joaquin Phoenix's eyes seem larger and lighter/greener, his eyebrows thicker, which lends a sense of deepness to his face that made him unrecognizable for a split-second when that shot was revealed. For sure a part of that is his performance and that permanent half-scowl he's rockin' in this movie, but it's interesting to wonder whether something about it being shot on 65mm accentuated something about his eyes...

I'm also quite fascinated by the way the shoulder of the officer is blurred in that shot. I wonder if the camera was actually quite far away with a long lens, which would have the effect of flattening Joaquin's face a little bit, which might add to the sense of a little-something-different about it.

There's more to it than it just being shot on 65mm, though... the color scheme in this movie leans a touch toward Technicolor and there's quite a bit of diffusion to the image in some shots, leading the highlights to glow and bleed a bit. I adore that. And that shot of the three kids getting their picture taken... that doesn't even look like it belongs in a modern movie. It feels lifted straight out of a 1950s film. PTA and Mihai Malaimare Jr. (MMJ?) absolutely nailed the period look.

That Close-Up is definitely beautiful and eerie (along with the music). BTW The little white blurred shoulder is an Homage/Nod to "One flew over the cuckoo's nest":

(https://p.twimg.com/AxO7h2SCAAImY8-.jpg:large)

(One of many Jack Nicholson references that can be found in the trailers)

Also the way the close-up is composed, Just his head floating, real tight shot, Clear background that highlights his face even more, reminds me of the Close-Ups in "The Passion of Joan of Arc":

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-WwWMspL4Hoc%2FTcBvlPUg4KI%2FAAAAAAAAAHc%2FmbEyZlRF6OQ%2Fs1600%2F-1.jpg&hash=ea8019aa383e473511bc34ad9f1f9e06b52b23b9)

And yes, they definitely used a Long Lens. Talking about that shot of the 3 kids in the picture, That's my favorite shot of all the shots I've seen from "The Master". I don't even know how they made it look like that, it's so fucking surreal. Can't be compare to any shot I've seen in any other movie. A work of art.

I'm really loving PTA's style on this one too. Instead of his usual Super Wide-Robert Altman style shots, he's going for Locked down real tight Close Ups. Also, he seems to be doing that "Punch-Drunk Love slightly Overexposed" shots thing, Which gives the film a very distinguish kinda softer look.

EDIT: This one might be my second favorite shot:

(https://p.twimg.com/Az_DI_RCIAI2uMY.jpg:large)

Of course it's intentional! This is Paul Thomas Anderson we're talking about! How dare you!

But that is interesting. I didn't think about having to use longer lenses with 65mm to get the same field of view, although it makes sense when I think about it in relation to what I know of the DSLR cameras (a lens on a full-frame 5D giving a wider field of view than the same lens on a 7D).

It definitely seems to be the case that PTA is creating images here that are just a little bit different from what we've seen before, as there is that classic look, but very modern technique (that sort of over-the-shoulder shot would not have been done in a 1950s film, at least not composed with the shoulder bleeding over the face), with the resulting images being full of organic side effects that wouldn't be seen in an 1950s or a modern film. It will be a very interesting hybrid of two very different kinds of sensibilities, but that has become something to expect of PTA, who has always been an old-fashioned guy in some ways and very modern and radical in other ways. You can see the theme of the old clashing against the new in all of his films (except for maybe Punch-Drunk Love, although even that film has what I feel is a very old-fashioned and sincere love story with a very modern visual sensibility), and this idea is present in his technique as well.

You two need to do a cinematography podcast together or something.

I agree with JB...really enjoyed this back and forth. I was wondering if we should maybe gather a list of the essential films from the period that might have influenced PTA's cinematic tone with this one...it would be great to see all these films and then see The Master.

Quote from: CloudAuteur on August 11, 2012, 12:21:21 AM
I agree with JB...really enjoyed this back and forth. I was wondering if we should maybe gather a list of the essential films from the period that might have influenced PTA's cinematic tone with this one...it would be great to see all these films and then see The Master.

***** MIGHT CONTAIN SOME MINOR SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN THE TRAILER... READ AT OWN RISK *****

So far, what I got/What I've watched that has similarities to the Script/Plot/Footage of the Master:


One flew over the cuckoo's nest (Jack Nicholson, Brad dourif. The shot in the trailer where they're all sitting around in blue uniforms looking half dead, is a total homage to this. Also the "interview scene" in the first teaser mirrors Jack nicholson's being interviewed here)

The passenger (Antonioni, Jack Nicholson... The line "what are you running from?" is borrowed from here. Also some aforementioned shots borrowed)

Wise Blood (Brad douriff again, Directed by John Huston. Just watched this a couple days ago. Weird as fuck. Lots of Dark humor. Guy comes back from the war and tries to start a religion)

Day of the fight (A Stanley Kubrick short film from the 50's, I see some similarities... Btw Scorsese "borrowed" a shitload of stuff from this for "Raging Bull". It's only 12 minutes long.)

The shining (Enuff said)

Lost in Translation (Couple shots that seem to have inspired PTA. The Bill Murray elevator shot being the most obvious one. PTA loves this film)

Badlands (Shot of Phoenix in the woods kinda looks like the shot of Martin Sheen when he's fishing)

2001: A space odyssey (Enuff said)

Thin red Line (Shots of Joaquin at the beach)

I am cuba (Shots of Joaquin at the beach with the Machete... Fish Eye Lens also very predominant in I am Cuba)

Let there be Light (John Huston AGAIN... "Are you mixed up?" line comes from here. Certain elements are borrowed for the "interview scene")

Barry Lyndon (The sailors fighting)

Silence of The Lambs (The shot where JP and PSH are framed between the jail cell bars)

Gulliver's Travels (Joaquin on top of the Ship....)

Double life of Veronique (Shot of Joaquin and the girl kissing under the Green-ish lighting... Same angle and everything. Also the shot of Phoenix with his face pushed against the window)

Elmer Gantry (Haven't found The Master references in it yet, but there are some there will be blood references and I'm sure after I watch the Master, I'll find some. Burt LANCASTER plays the lead)

Punch-Drunk Love (Phoenix does the Barry Egan run.. It's pretty similar)

Melvin and Howard (Shots of them riding bikes in the desert references the opening scene of this. There's also sooo much "Hard eight" and "Boogie Nights" in this movie, is a MUST WATCH for any PTA fan)

Reds (Really the only thing I found in this is that Phoenix running at full speed through the misty beet fields reminds me of that shot of  Warren Beatty running at full speed here)

Taxi Driver (Shot of Phoenix playing with the revolver)


Possible Book Reference: (Via Twitter): "PTA is a self professed fanatic of John Steinbeck. Page 303 of The Grapes Of Wrath, a preacher is referred to as 'The Master'." - Joseph McDonagh


And that's really all I got for now... After I watch the whole film a couple times, I'm sure I'll find some more. I've been trying to go through every movie Nicholson made during the 70's - 80's because it seems that's a HUGE inspiration for the character Phoenix plays. Also trying to go through Brad Dourif and John Huston's whole catalogue, among other things. I got so much shit to sit through.... But I'm lovin it  :yabbse-grin:.


EDIT:  I'm also planning to watch lots of movie about "The sea".. Like: Das boot, Papillon, swept away (1974 original one, not that Madonna shit remake), Moby Dick 1956 (John Huston), Pirates (Roman Polanski), the old man and the sea (John sturges) and stuff like that...

admin edit: removed script spoilers, see post below

Great list InTylerWeTrust

I'm also going to add that the Taxi Driver reference of Joaquin playing with the revolver is a sort of a combination with the Apocalypse Now opening scene of Martin Sheen in the hotel room.

Ps: I went into the personal message section, however I can't find where I can attach the Photos, any idea how to do it?


admin edit: removed reference to script spoilers, see post below

Quote from: HeywoodRFloyd on August 11, 2012, 01:34:17 AM
Great list InTylerWeTrust

I'm also going to add that the Taxi Driver reference of Joaquin playing with the revolver is a sort of a combination with the Apocalypse Now opening scene of Martin Sheen in the hotel room.

ALSO Phoenix jerking off on the beach?? Did I miss some footage or something? Where did you see that

Ps: I went into the personal message section, however I can't find where I can attach the Photos, any idea how to do it?

Yeah, to that shot with the revolver, one could also add: Johnny Depp in "Fear and Loathing in las Vegas".

Actually now that I think about it, that HILARIOUS shot in the trailer of Amy adams turning around looking at that guy (the guy that's talking shit about "The cause") with anger/disgust reminds me of Johnny depp doing the same thing when they pick up Tobey Maguire in "Fear and loathing". I might have to watch that movie again, Haven't seen it in a couple years. I'mma put it in my "to watch" list for tomorrow to see what else I find.


* As far as the pictures go, I have no idea man... If I were you, I would just upload them to this thread so I can download them easily and also so we can discuss them.

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 11, 2012, 12:59:17 AM
trying to go through Brad Dourif's whole catalogue

Amy Adams' character is a direct reference to Chucky from 'Child's Play'

Tyler I had to edit your post as you blatantly posted a script spoiler (albeit with warning) and Heywood unknowingly asked about it.

There is one simple rule in this thread and that is we are not talking about things that PTA has not made officially available. I want everyone to be able to participate in or follow this discussion without getting spoiled any more than you would get from watching the trailers or staring at the posters for a few hours.

That script for all we know is bullshit.

Quote from: Pubrick on August 11, 2012, 06:17:12 AM
Tyler I had to edit your post as you blatantly posted a script spoiler (albeit with warning) and Heywood unknowingly asked about it.

There is one simple rule in this thread and that is we are not talking about things that PTA has not made officially available. I want everyone to be able to participate in or follow this discussion without getting spoiled any more than you would get from watching the trailers or staring at the posters for a few hours.

That script for all we know is bullshit.

Actually, I've only read the first 20 pages of the script. That doesn't happen within the first 20 pages. The reason why I "Know" that "spoiler" (which is not really a spoiler to be honest), is because that's one of the main things people talked about after it was shown within the 4 minutes of the footage revealed in Cannes.

So, to be honest that shot I'm talking about might not even be of him doing that... But after seeing Phoenix do the "sand nipples" and then that Close-Up of his face and him falling back (which is the shot that looks like River Phoenix getting a Blowjob in "My own private Idaho"), I GUESSED that that might be the moment where it happens. But I really don't know....

Tyler, I like your lists and your attention to detail and I think you're right about some of them, but I think you assume PT "borrows" a lot more than he does. There are a lot of shots in a lot of movies like the ones you describe.

That said, please continue this discussion. I enjoy reading it.

also, the fucking blues in this movie... I love them

Quote from: RegularKarate on August 11, 2012, 10:44:52 AM
Tyler, I like your lists and your attention to detail and I think you're right about some of them, but I think you assume PT "borrows" a lot more than he does. There are a lot of shots in a lot of movies like the ones you describe.

I know and I agree with you, sometimes I see similarities even when they're not there. But I still gotta mention them anyways just in case. Plus, it's interesting to talk about them as Cinephiles. Certain ones are obvious PTA "Nods" though,  like the Jack Nicholson ones or the I am Cuba and Melvin and Howard ones.

Quote from: velociraptor on August 11, 2012, 10:38:40 AM
The "dirtied frame" is clearly a bit of a motif too. Recall that streak of Dodd's red robe in the shot of Phoenix by the door (from second teaser). It's so simple but so effective.

I noticed that little red blurry shoulder too, very subtle... Also I notice how Joaquin is framed right in between Black and White:

(https://p.twimg.com/A0B36X1CMAAFbRm.jpg:large)

Creating a sort of Yin and yan/Good and Evil symbolism. It might be intentional. Black, White and Red.

Also, the lyrics to the song in the Trailer are Very important:


"No Other Love can warm my heart
Now that I've known the comfort of your arms

No other love.
Oh the sweet contentment that I find with you Every Time
Every Time.

No other lips could want you more For I was born to glory in your kiss.
Forever yours

I was blessed with love to love you Til the stars burn out above you
Til the moon is but a silver shell

No other love, Let no other love
Know the wonder of your spell."


Just like Dirk Diggler, Phoenix's character finds a home and a surrogate family in the cult.  "Let know other love know the wonder of your SPELL"

Quote from: velociraptor on August 11, 2012, 11:51:28 AM
or if it's simply that the image wasn't color corrected in the teaser and has since been.

Most likely.... But actually all 3 teasers/trailers seem to have a different Coloring to them. The first one looks more washed out Old-fashion Full Metal Jacket style color. 2nd one seems to have more color but it's Darker and at the same time overexposed a bit which makes it look super soft. But the colors in the Full Trailer are bright and vibrant, specially the "Blues" and the "Yellows". Because the Full trailer is probably properly color corrected as you say.

************  POSSIBLE SPOILERS ****************


The new Stills are blowing my mind:

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn1%2F524349_492137297482075_833303934_n.jpg&hash=0c82e7e2f177f2f5b137f4a91dcc5cd38bbebe12)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-prn1%2F625628_492159387479866_809834124_n.jpg&hash=2e55a5cda93a09dafbe9ff9f8e51ceb1cbd366c8)


My favorite has to be this one though:

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash3%2F523167_492177927478012_1027924153_n.jpg&hash=d2009e58dab60e3ac7b5ae7d88d2dcf1ad8984ce) 


Man, that would make a great poster...

BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN:

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moma.org%2Fexplore%2Finside_out%2Finside_out%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F03%2FBattleship_Potemkin.jpg&hash=6aad7ddc445f677fa16981a7c31d40819071b2b8)



GULLIVER'S TRAVELS:

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyhsjuniorcommunitybookdiscussion.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2Fgullivers-travels.jpg%2F112076647%2Fgullivers-travels.jpg&hash=5a5606802c005107c16ba886df9452cd9f2b50a2)


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpinealeye.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F07%2Fthemaster.jpg&hash=94c6a89aaff1603a405c7ce07cd6eb8f6837e879)


Man, Paul really did his research..... Took me a while to remember where I had seen that shot before.

BTW this just goes to show how much of a GENIUS PTA is... Who else can put those 2 things together to create a beautifully original, super symbollic shot like that?  BRILLIANT.

PTA doesn't need to do research. THIS IS IN HIS BLOOD.

I agree with Matt. Some specific shots are obviously planned to be riffing off of films that PTA adores while he's writing the script. But, I think a lot of it happens intuitively or unconsciously. These films are now in his DNA, and these "references" sometimes happen plainly through these films being a part of his vision.
My opinion at least.

I agree and disagree... I think there's shots that are indeed part of his "Filmmaking DNA", like those that come from Altman, Kubrick, scorsese, mamet, demme, ophuls, Malick, de palma, antonioni and all the other directors and movies that he loves. Those can be conscious or subconscious references. Sometimes you reference something on PURPOSE (homage) and sometimes you just do it without even thinking about it, because that shot has become a part of YOU.

But then there's also shots that he finds while he's researching (and HE MOST DEFINITELY DOES RESEARCH, trust me). Basically as he writes, he does what I'm doing right now (in preparation to watch THE MASTER). He reads and watches anything he can get his hands on, that has to do with alcoholism, post traumatic stress, cults, religion, being in the sea and everything else the story is about. And when he finds something he likes or something that inspires him then he adds it to his own film while ADDING HIS OWN VISION. As oppossed to Tarantino who just takes shit verbatim. Paul borrows ideas and evolves them to a point where they become entirely his own. That takes lots of talent and vision.

But that's just my opinion.

P.S: I feel like sometimes it comes across as if I'm trying to undermine Paul's talent by showing all these references and stuff. But trust me, that's NOT what I'm trying to do at all.

PTA is my favorite director and a he's a huge influence on me, as an artist and as a person.

I just love to find these references because it allows me to get into the mind of a Genius. It allows me to comprehend his filmmaking process, which in turn, helps ME become a better writer/Director. Hopefully it also helps and inspires you guys.

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on July 28, 2012, 01:32:58 PM

MELVIN AND HOWARD:

(https://p.twimg.com/Ay6VC_kCcAAkyWi.jpg)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toughpigs.com%2Fimages%2Fanth02augbike.jpg&hash=26be9ed1066af491b37de717b949f2874ec5430a)

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 10, 2012, 09:56:48 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/Az_DI_RCIAI2uMY.jpg:large)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgracefulboot.com%2Freviews%2FMuppetMovieKermit.jpg&hash=8dab4da0df38d2341f38a65f3baad7715a193bf8)


Obviously these shots were taken from The Muppet Movie because, you know, PTA likes frogs.

GREAT FIND, mac.

Quote from: 72teeth on July 21, 2012, 05:34:09 PM
(https://p.twimg.com/AyVL2zZCQAAmB1E.jpg:large)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2FMuppet-Movie-1.jpg&hash=4830255943c02ebfd2bc3614ad54715a0519ff64)

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 11, 2012, 11:03:56 AM
(https://p.twimg.com/A0B36X1CMAAFbRm.jpg:large)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2FM-104-1.jpg&hash=aec81fa0652ae1219b8970a3592ce7a1c5c1f1de)

Quote from: malkovich on July 28, 2012, 12:17:18 PM
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m4hingxsto1qzoh9fo2_1280.jpg&hash=dfd43a658354013200f80ebb9fa7378d5eb94de8)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2F2424673-1.png&hash=32bdcac4e2d5e1c384d9cc79c8f273d735700c52)

Holy. Fucking. Shit.  :bravo:

Ok, those are hilarious.  Who knew?

 :yabbse-thumbup:

Shit. I'm gonna have to go back and look at all The Muppets movies now..

Amy Adams played a character named "MARY" in the Muppets movie (2011)...

Amy adams plays a character named "MARY" in The Master (2012).

Coincidence?  I THINK NOT.  *Paranoid Eyes*

Plus, Paul has three children. Children are KNOWN MUPPET-LOVERS.

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ZqNvNYv1qjM%2FTrzSklLG62I%2FAAAAAAAAZX8%2FSFwEHV95Ijg%2Fs1600%2FMUPPETS%252BMOVIE%252BWALLPAPERS.jpg&hash=548ef157920b2e3407f361e0f423d643093cf35a)


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images.hollywood.com%2Fsite%2Fphilip-seymour-hoffman-master-teaser.jpg&hash=b727b7a09b763961e6c37ff9ca86dee19b15c99a)

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 12, 2012, 09:29:26 PM
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ZqNvNYv1qjM%2FTrzSklLG62I%2FAAAAAAAAZX8%2FSFwEHV95Ijg%2Fs1600%2FMUPPETS%252BMOVIE%252BWALLPAPERS.jpg&hash=548ef157920b2e3407f361e0f423d643093cf35a)


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images.hollywood.com%2Fsite%2Fphilip-seymour-hoffman-master-teaser.jpg&hash=b727b7a09b763961e6c37ff9ca86dee19b15c99a)

Okay, ITWT, I think we can all agree this one's a bit of a stretch.

so was your reposting of it....of the page

Quote from: BB on August 12, 2012, 11:14:56 PM
Okay, ITWT, I think we can all agree this one's a bit of a stretch.

But with some subtle brightness and contrast adjustments...

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-images.hollywood.com%2Fsite%2Fphilip-seymour-hoffman-master-teaser.jpg&hash=b727b7a09b763961e6c37ff9ca86dee19b15c99a)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2FMUPPETSMOVIEWALLPAPERS.jpg&hash=831d63e459fe31db9e3158a06b00e4e07cb709e8)

This is pretty much my favorite thread ever at this point in time.

I stand corrected.

Quote from: Reelist on August 12, 2012, 11:22:33 PM
so was your reposting of it....of the page

Yes it was. I apologize. I'm bad at this.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 13, 2012, 12:34:50 AM
This is pretty much my favorite thread ever at this point in time.

Yeah, these last posts is pretty much the best posts i've ever seen on Xixax.

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash4%2Fs720x720%2F486470_488344207861384_1390848776_n.jpg&hash=cbb0c6d827e942bf90e1f2626debcff7b05fdbb5)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FMedia%2FColumnists%2FColumnists%2F2012%2F3%2F6%2F1331055912284%2FThe-Muppets-007.jpg&hash=c22b62c676f8cd499046505f22f21ff3b992aea7)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-vhWP6CmUhDQ%2FTtwo19EC22I%2FAAAAAAAABFA%2FUiKs8ItpkX0%2Fs1600%2Fmuppets-movie-2011.jpg&hash=14baf2e4688e7a50d31833805adf2d5686fe6781)


(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-4G9LghS5hWQ%2FUCEsDdGvJCI%2FAAAAAAAAAcc%2FPJw0KKW-Bc8%2Fs1600%2FUntitled-1.jpg&hash=05675c1e4676dd0e446c65e94d8835863a9395cf)

Couple more references... (serious ones)...

- Hal Ashby's "THE LAST DETAIL"... Jack Nicholson (yes, him, again) plays a navy man with an alcohol problem and a short temper.

and

- William Wyler's "THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES" ... I haven't seen it yet, but someone mentioned that the department store Phoenix's character works in, "looks exactly like the department store in 'the best years of our lives'". Tonight I'll watch it and see for myself.

As I've said before it seems like Phoenix's character is drawing heavily from 70's Jack Nicholson. I love that because if there's anyone that can pull off a "Jack Nicholson style craziness" it is Joaquin. Also, on another note, Hoffman's character seems to be channeling Orson Welles... More on this later.


BTW....

My source: IMDB "The Master" boards. Some people were discussing movies that may have inspired PTA. That's where I got this information from.

I take ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIT for these finds. Ya hear that, Pubrick? ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIT. All credit goes to to the over-analytical douchebag IMDB users whose names I don't give enough of a shit to mention.  :yabbse-smiley:

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 13, 2012, 01:49:05 PM
- William Wyler's "THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES" ... I haven't seen it yet, but someone mentioned that the department store Phoenix's character works in, "looks exactly like the department store in 'the best years of our lives'". Tonight I'll watch it and see for myself.

I've seen it a few times. I have no doubts that it will have had some influence on The Master (soldiers return from WW2, one turns to alcohol). Maybe just THAT a character works in a department store. But the department store in TBYOOL is so non-descript, I don't know how anybody could spot similarities to it in a few stills and clips from a trailer.

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 13, 2012, 01:49:05 PM
BTW....

My source: IMDB "The Master" boards. Some people were discussing movies that may have inspired PTA. That's where I got this information from.

I take ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIT for these finds. Ya hear that, Pubrick? ABSOLUTELY NO CREDIT. All credit goes to to the over-analytical douchebag IMDB users whose names I don't give enough of a shit to mention.  :yabbse-smiley:

For anyone wondering why Tyler just went on this little tirade I'll have to add some context.. I asked Tyler to cite his sources as it became apparent he was claiming to "discover" things he hadn't actually discovered himself.

Tyler the reason i asked you to cite your source is.. Why not? If the people on imdb making these discoveries are such "over analytical douchebags" not worth giving a shit about then why are you stealing their insights and claiming them as your own? Are you trying to be the "over analytical douchebag" of xixax?

I've got nothing against you personally, I can understand you were just trying to impress the grown ups, it's a stage we all go through in our pathetic teenage years. But don't you see that these people posting on imdb and other places, who are offering their insights to an unappreciative crowd, are exactly the kind of film folk we need around here. As I said, you're obviously trying to emulate them.

Just settle down, try not to throw a fit, and recognize that there's more to life than taking credit for other people's work.

This thread's a total buzzkill now.  Let's go make fun of grammatical errors on the Playlist instead.

(https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/637265720.jpg?key=720540&Expires=1345346042&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=nRbTptzsQt2F7Wt-B3Hd4CwdbRjj6nGnvqnXdzpm7g7R5LvF0uoM-YvfreqOPxq9vsWPnd4xNfU9ibRZ~d7izW2DKX19lPBtP0sfOjtIq9dVYyfvMKecRFZZmlyORXptM~kkCnJJWa5g9szTgRycFPAUicnbuJnVTEoscfa5kow_)


Another John Huston reference...


CREDIT: https://twitter.com/cigsandredvines

Ok... So I finally finished watching John Huston's "Let there be Light".... and WOW... Just... wow.




Watch from 44:22 until about 47:40... Dialogue is borrowed Verbatim.

And there's more pieces of dialogue throughout that are also borrowed... Funny how NONE OF IT is in the script that I have... Paul probably watched this and did major changes.


They also wear the same uniforms as in "The Master" and is shot very similar.

Also this shot:

(https://p.twimg.com/A0TWarqCYAAapKB.jpg)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FY1vN1s-pA8k%2F0.jpg&hash=3b31cd08680d880e73eece6787d8c92daf155ab2)


I'm actually shocked at the fact that Paul decided to borrow all of that dialogue without really changing much... Doesn't seem like his style. But then again, if it ain't broke, why fix it?


CREDIT: To Myself... (For once : P)

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 14, 2012, 08:32:04 PM
I'm actually shocked at the fact that Paul decided to borrow all of that dialogue without really changing much... Doesn't seem like his style. But then again, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

I'm not shocked at all. He lifts shots so why not dialogue? It's well known that the milkshake speech is taken from a Congressional hearing in the 20s. Granted, that one was said to be paraphrased and incorporated into his own writing. Much of Eli's first sermon is taken verbatim from Elmer Gantry. I can't think of them right now but there are others in his other films.

Everybody steals. Not just Tarantino, though he is probably the most vocal about it. I, for one, really like the idea of things just falling into a project's orbit and getting drawn in. It's a romantic, organic process. 

Quote from: BB on August 14, 2012, 11:47:49 PM
I, for one, really like the idea of things just falling into a project's orbit and getting drawn in. It's a romantic, organic process.

I agree... These last couple of weeks have been eye opening for me as far as my writing process goes. For some reason I always thought "borrowing" was a bad thing, simply because I always felt that being "unoriginal" was probably the worst thing an artist could be. But all these references have got me thinking differently... "Borrowing" doesn't mean you're unoriginal or mediocre.. You CAN take an idea and expand on it and make it your own. It's all about what you add to it. It's not about where you take the idea from, but where you take the idea to.

It really makes me mad, thinking about all the scenes I erased because they reminded me too much of something else : /... Shit, I watch movies everyday. Of course anything I write is gonna remind me of something else..

Anyways... I really been thinking of doing a Video where I put every single reference that I've found throughout the years. Like every single one, Scorsese, PTA, Tarantino, De Palma, Wes anderson, even all those things Kubrick took from Bergman. I got a ton of them written down in a notebook somewhere, I should really find it and start editing shit... When I find the time, I'll definitely do that.

I might have to go dust off my abandoned screenplays, "Disco Evenings" and "Chrysanthemum".

QuoteIt's not about where you take the idea from, but where you take the idea to.

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m8hv3mG9Co1qhzhglo1_500.jpg&hash=41664774d14c666b387b725f129d50a95b17672b)

Quote from: polkablues on August 15, 2012, 01:13:45 AM
I might have to go dust off my abandoned screenplays, "Disco Evenings" and "Chrysanthemum".

I've actually been working on some action scripts: Impending Carnage, Wasted Romance, and Hard Eight. I'll read yours if you read mine.

Quote from: BB on August 14, 2012, 11:47:49 PM
It's well known that the milkshake speech is taken from a Congressional hearing in the 20s.

Wait. What?

And don't forget the Tom Cruise speech in Magnolia.

Quote from: wilderesque on August 15, 2012, 02:08:33 AM

Quote from: BB on August 14, 2012, 11:47:49 PM
It's well known that the milkshake speech is taken from a Congressional hearing in the 20s.

Wait. What?

From http://www.laweekly.com/2008-01-17/film-tv/blood-sweat-and-tears/ (http://www.laweekly.com/2008-01-17/film-tv/blood-sweat-and-tears/):

"I must admit to you where that came from," Anderson says giddily, noting that the eccentric metaphor comes straight from the congressional transcripts of the 1920s "Teapot Dome" scandal, in which New Mexico Republican Senator Albert Fall was convicted of accepting bribes for the oil-drilling rights to public lands in California and Wyoming from several oil-industry fat cats (including Edward Doheny).

"I think it was Albert Fall, who was asked to describe drainage before Congress," Anderson continues. "And his way of describing it was, 'If you have a milk shake and I have a milk shake, and my straw reaches across the room...' I'm sure I embellished it and changed it around and made it more Plainview. But Fall used the word 'milk shake,' and I thought it was so great. It was mad to see that word among all this official testimony and terminology — a fucking milk shake. I get so happy every time I hear that word."

Quote from: KJ on August 15, 2012, 02:17:24 AM
And don't forget the Tom Cruise speech in Magnolia.

Yeah, that's right. The bedside "don't go away" is from Last Tango in Paris and a lot of his Seduce and Destroy material is taken from transcriptions of actual pickup artist gurus. That's the other thing. PTA and most filmmakers also take from novels and research material, so their references may be more difficult to spot. I don't think Tarantino can read.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 15, 2012, 02:00:30 AM
I've actually been working on some action scripts: Impending Carnage, Wasted Romance, and Hard Eight.

I would totally see Impending Carnage.

Seems the "serious" part of this fanalysis has gone by the wayside. Sorry, Pubrick, sir.

Ok, I got some free time right now... So let's do this...


First off, All of PTA's endings....


Hard eight: House of Games

(No video available... But the Ending is taken from David Mamet's "House of Games")


Boogie Nights: Raging Bull (Scorsese)




Magnolia: Nights of Cabiria (Fellini)




Punch-Drunk Love: A woman is a woman (Godard)

(No video available either because fucking youtube doesn't have it... But check it out, is the same ending)....


There will be Blood has an Original ending... But Plainview saying "I'm finished!" still reminds me of William Dafoe at the end of "The last temptation of Christ" yelling: "It is accomplished!".. But maybe that's just me.


Anyways...


Yes, as you just mentioned,  the scene where Tom cruise goes to see his father in MAGNOLIA mirrors very closely they way Brando goes to see his dead mother in Bertolucci's "Last tango in Paris".

Also the way Earl partridge's room looks is extremely similar to one of the hospital rooms in Altman's "NASHVILLE"

When rollergirl skates over to eddie (right before she blows him), those low shots of the skates down the hall are lifted straight from John Carpenter's "The thing".

PSH going "I'm an idiot, a fucking idiot, a fucking idiot.." is a reference to De niro in Raging bul going: "You're so stupid, you're so fucking stupid.."

"Boogie nights" also owes major credit to "Saturday night fever"... PTA borrows everything from multiple songs to even the way Dirk Diggler's room looks exactly like Travolta's room.

The "Slow Dolly In" into the dude in donut store in Boogie nights reminds me of those slow dolly ins scorsese does in TAXI DRIVER when Travis looks at the black pimps.

The Jump cuts of the guy opening the safe during the robbery at the donut store is borrowed from Robert rodruiguez/Tarantino's "From dusk 'til dawn" at the beginning.

The Bright Flashes of the camera in Boogie Nights, are taken from RAGING BULL.. But Scorsese took them from some old film that I can't remember... If anyone remembers, let me know.

Steadicam wanders around Dirk's house.... Goodfellas.

Alfred Molina's character in Boogie nights and also the gun trick he does, also the 360 shot of Dirk's room taken from the french movie: "La Haine"... Also the dance "Vinz" does in his dream reminds me a lot of the dance Barry Egan/Sandler does in PDL.

The looks of the mom and dad in Boogie Nights, also the way they act... Borrowed from Robert Redford's "Ordinary people"

Those 3 "establishing Close ups" that PTA constantly does in boogie nights (specially at the beginning when he's introducing all the characters) is taken also from RAGING BULL... But Scorsese took them from Antonioni.

Boogie nights borrows many shots from Scorsese's CASINO... Like, MANY shots.

Hard eight borrows a lot from Jonathan demme's MELVIN AND HOWARD and Jean-Pierre Melville's BOB THE GAMBLER.

The Close-Up of Daniel Plainview's signature borrowed from Kubrick's BARRY LYNDON.

The Low angle Chin Close up of Paul Dano during the baptism, same shot as the one Kubrick does to the Preacher in Jail... In A CLOCKWORK ORANGE.

The Rig burning in TWBB is inspired by the burning of the crops in Terrence Malick's DAYS OF HEAVEN (a couple more things also borrowed from here).... To be honest, this is my favorite. PTA just took that shit to a whole 'nother level. He made a fucking painting out of it. Genius.

That Sloooow shot of the man working, leading up to Plainview reuniting with his son... is borrowed from BLAZING SADDLES.

The quick scene in MAGNOLIA, where the cops are taking fingerprints and asking about "the worm?".. Mirrors scene in The Coen's RAISING ARIZONA.

Julianne Moore crying in boogie nights... Mirrors Jodie Foster crying in Demme's SILENCE OF THE LAMBS.

Shot of the House "transforming" into the school in MAGNOLIA... Technique borrowed from Nichol's THE GRADUATE.

Donnie opening the vault at his job... Shot exactly like when Joe Pesci opens the vault at his house in CASINO.

Close up of the words in the letter at the beginning of Magnolia, Mirrors the reading of "Howard's letter" in MELVIN AND HOWARD.


BTW that's just off the top of my head, I wish I had footage to go along with it... I know there's more things PTA has borrowed, just can't remember them right now.

This is getting out of hand..

This thread is for analysis of THE MASTER, not PTA's BODY OF WORK.

Tyler, if you want to talk about other references you found on IMDB, you should make a thread for it yourself. No one's stopping you. I'm sure PTA could take up a shit ton of pages, but inevitably that would fly off the rails too. So I think you should just make a general thread for references. I really am interested in this stuff, but you just made a HUGE FUCKING LIST that people are gonna start oogling at going "wow. never noticed that before, Tyler."  "wow. good eyes, Tyler."  We don't need that shit around here. The Master is a month away and are energies must be focused towards that.

Quote from: Reelist on August 15, 2012, 10:31:24 AM
This is getting out of hand..

This thread is for analysis of THE MASTER, not PTA's BODY OF WORK.

Tyler, if you want to talk about other references you found on IMDB, you should make a thread for it yourself. No one's stopping you. I'm sure PTA could take up a shit ton of pages, but inevitably that would fly off the rails too. So I think you should just make a general thread for references. I really am interested in this stuff, but you just made a HUGE FUCKING LIST that people are gonna start oogling at going "wow. never noticed that before, Tyler."  "wow. good eyes, Tyler."  We don't need that shit around here. The Master is a month away and are energies must be focused towards that.

You're right....

P.S: Don't try to be a smartass. None of those references are on IMDB (you can look it up), that's what I've been trying to tell you guys... I've sent shit to them and they never post them, so fuck 'em. I'll start a thread for references for sure. There's still Tarantino and Scorsese to talk about... But yeah, let's focus on THE MASTER. Which is what this thread was intended for.

New trailer should be hitting the internet in the upcoming days...

Quote from: Reelist on August 15, 2012, 10:31:24 AM
This is getting out of hand..

This thread is for analysis of THE MASTER, not PTA's BODY OF WORK.

Tyler, if you want to talk about other references you found on IMDB, you should make a thread for it yourself. No one's stopping you. I'm sure PTA could take up a shit ton of pages, but inevitably that would fly off the rails too. So I think you should just make a general thread for references. I really am interested in this stuff, but you just made a HUGE FUCKING LIST that people are gonna start oogling at going "wow. never noticed that before, Tyler."  "wow. good eyes, Tyler."  We don't need that shit around here. The Master is a month away and are energies must be focused towards that.

I thought it was interesting. And as tangents go, it wasn't too severe.

Quote from: polkablues on August 15, 2012, 01:13:45 AM
I might have to go dust off my abandoned screenplays, "Disco Evenings" and "Chrysanthemum".

Sorry but it made me lol too hard not to bump. "Disco Evenings" :yabbse-thumbup:

The portrait stuff of the kids and PSH brought this to mind

Yeah... But it still reminds me more of this:






Specially because PTA loves "Lost in Translation".


Change the Background from Grey to Green.... Add this Globe-looking Lamp (from Antonioni's "The Passenger", AGAIN):


(https://p.twimg.com/A0W68CmCEAAuAGu.jpg:large)



and you get:



(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FArts%2FArts_%2FPictures%2F2012%2F7%2F20%2F1342793252489%2FPhilip-Seymour-Hoffman-in-009.jpg&hash=2ace86105e88887a88f1be2f64009c6b579be19c)


: )

Tyler I admire your enthusiasm and you've certainly sparked a lot of discussion which is good, but I don't understand what this laundry list of "this shot looks exactly like this" is ultimately contributing, especially given that many of these comparisons are similar only because they are so simple (a tight shot of a guy sitting in a chair will look like a lot of shots of guys in chairs from a lot of movies). I know we're all excited for the movie to come out and anxious for more news/tidbits/trailers but tirelessly dissecting a trailer frame by frame will bite you in the ass when you actually see the movie. Many of us learned that lesson the hard way with Magnolia, PDL, and especially in my case with CWBB.

Quote from: ©brad on August 15, 2012, 01:28:59 PM
Tyler I admire your enthusiasm and you've certainly sparked a lot of discussion which is good, but I don't understand what this laundry list of "this shot looks exactly like this" is ultimately contributing, especially given that many of these comparisons are similar only because they are so simple (a tight shot of a guy sitting in a chair will look like a lot of shots of guys in chairs from a lot of movies). I know we're all excited for the movie to come out and anxious for more news/tidbits/trailers but tirelessly dissecting a trailer frame by frame will bite you in the ass when you actually see the movie. Many of us learned that lesson the hard way with Magnolia, PDL, and especially in my case with CWBB.

Yeah you're absolutely right, I really do need to calm down... I've been waiting for this movie since '09 and I think now that is so close, the idea that is only one month away is is making me go a little Jack Torrance..

But I do think is a good thing to dissect movies like this, that's how you learn. I think the only problem is the movie hasn't even come out yet which might make these references a little annoying. But I'll do my best to tone it down.

On another note, a friend of mine that works at the Kendall Square Cinema in Boston emailed me that they got the new 'Master' trailer, but they're not playing it before any movies, because they "aren't allowed yet". I don't know why, I asked him, he hasn't emailed back. More on this later...

Tyler - Whilst it does seem a bit crazy to be breaking down a trailer, I understand your enthusiasm and I think your discussions on references and the creative process have been pretty dope. In my humble opinion, another thread on Scorsese and the likes, would be great.

(https://p.twimg.com/A0YyayYCIAA1J-U.jpg:large)

(https://p.twimg.com/A0YzNykCEAIp460.jpg:large)



I don't even know what to say... Is like he went to the past with a Camera and came back.

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 15, 2012, 09:51:45 PM
I don't even know what to say... Is like he went to the past with a Camera and came back.

More, "is" like PTA went to the past, had John Huston shoot it, then came back with the footage as his own.

Quote from: MacGuffin on August 16, 2012, 12:49:24 AM

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 15, 2012, 09:51:45 PM
I don't even know what to say... Is like he went to the past with a Camera and came back.

More, "is" like PTA went to the past, had John Huston shoot it, then came back with the footage as his own.

Is this timeholing?

Quote from: Ravi on August 16, 2012, 12:58:22 AM

Is this timeholing?

Time-Holing?.... Isn't that a sexual euphemism?

i'm glad you got the reference list out of your system but try not to treat this thread like your personal blog where you just post whatever you're thinking.. this stuff about a new trailer and your friend.. who gives a shit? maybe take it to the lesser master thread that is meant for fluff and news.

i also think pointing out references and homages in films is the least important part of film analysis. it reveals very little without context. an actual analysis takes the film on its own merit. which of course we can't do just yet. but that's why the teasers were so good, they were self contained and had consistent themes with little to no plot spoilage.

it's nice to know that great directors steal bits from other movies cos it makes us think that any old idiot who's seen enough movies and hasn't a single original thought in his head could create a masterpiece if he managed to choose the right bits to cut and paste. but  this obsession with references is focussing on the wrong thing, that's not what makes PTA's films great.. it's the unparalleled originality and conceptual bravado of his films that make his work worth discussing.

does knowing that kubrick referenced a dumb picture by Diane Arbus when he conceptualised the grady twins add any meaning to the film? it doesn't add any more than was already present in the ideas established within the narrative itself through countless methods that extend far beyond quoting a fucking film. Simply looking at the dialogue in that scene tells us more.. "it's just like pictures in a book"..  in that case the echo of a real picture has some neat resonance at best but it doesn't contain the skeleton key that will unlock the film's entire meaning.

We must not confuse these great artists with someone like tarantino.. his films are of little value outside their references.

Quote from: velociraptor on August 16, 2012, 11:04:45 AM
I would say Greenwood is king of the new teaser. The score is so haunting and bizarre. The choppy cut-in of the little fiddle/flute after "we've all been in love" is startling and throws me off every time. The whole thing feels like a dream. From my perspective, it looks unlike anything PTA has done before. Surely there are reminders of TWBB and his and other filmmaker's work- but what catches my attention the most is the utter uniqueness and subtlety of it. This is my favorite piece of advertising since the first teaser.

I completely agree. It is the weirdest footage we've seen since the first teaser. Someone said the music was "distracting". Pfft, I think the music is PERFECT. It gets under your skin and totally hypnotizes you. If Greenwood doesn't win the oscar, there will be fucking blood.

Also, Joaquin shows even moooore excellent acting. That part at around 1:20 where he says "she wrote me a letter..." and then stops and subtly smiles then quietly goes "uhm.."....  WOW. 

Now waiting for more PSH.

i also agree. this new trailer is the best thing they've released. it's phenomenal. it's like a full length teaser if that makes any sense.

the timehole business ties in perfectly with what i've been saying about the multiple meanings of the term "master".. in this case they are once again referring to a definitive moment in time, getting to "the ground floor". in the first teaser we had the interviewer help freddie remember the truth about a past event, to remember the master version of his life.

there's more to say.. especially about the two lines "she wrote me a letter" and "she looked at me".. they encapsulate the movie for me. but who cares.. a couple of fuckos (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=10940.msg317336#msg317336) will have seen this movie in less than 12 hours!

Quote from: Pubrick on August 16, 2012, 01:17:35 PM

the two lines "she wrote me a letter" and "she looked at me".. they encapsulate the movie for me.

How so?... (asking genuinely)

Quote from: Pubrick on August 16, 2012, 01:17:35 PM
the timehole business ties in perfectly with what i've been saying about the multiple meanings of the term "master".. in this case they are once again referring to a definitive moment in time, getting to "the ground floor". in the first teaser we had the interviewer help freddie remember the truth about a past event, to remember the master version of his life.

:bravo:

I think you just blew the pre-analysis of this film wide open. I don't know how this meaning of the phrase "The Master" had never occurred to me, as it seems so blindingly obvious in hindsight.

Someone (anonymous) mentioned (at Cigsandredvines) that the music for the new teaser sounds a bit like the music in Robert Altman's "3 women"... So I checked it out..





I can hear little similarities here and there but still, Greenwood's score is just unmatchable. Though is good to see PTA possibly still has a little bit of Altman in him...

I haven't seen the movie, I don't know if this belongs in this spoiler talk thread or fan analysis thread but I'll post it here just in case.

These two comments at Cigarettes and Red Vines are interesting, especially the latter.

admin edit: the following two screen caps contain spoilerish content that is not entirely necessary to appreciate the analysis below, which is still based on the trailers, click at own risk

click here for first comment (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8zm88p3od1rcxkteo1_1280.jpg)

click here for second comment (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8zm88p3od1rcxkteo2_1280.jpg)

Now what I'm taking from this, is that the film is essentially about memory & memories. The key to this I think is the fact that the first commenter mentioned that:

"Plus for a lot of the scenes that ARE in the movie, they used a lot of alternate takes for the trailers. So the experience of seeing the movie can actually be FRESH"

Why would PTA do that?
I think it is showing how a person remembers a memory or an experience, it's not exactly how it really was, it's not 'The Master of that Memory' (Thanks Pubrick) it's how you comprehended it at that point in time, from a perspective you had at that point in time, how you 'processed' that information.

And I think the 3rd Teaser fits in here beautifully.

LOVE. Love is a key to how this works. Remember from personal experience, when you have been in Love, even if that Love is diminished, that memory that you might have from an experience you processed when you were in love, still holds that emotional value that you attributed to it back then, hence that memory is not like how it really was, but how you remembered it to be.

I might be stretching it here, but I actually have strong faith in this next point, otherwise why would Paul even do it this way?

Okay, now let's look at the teasers and trailers.

I've already seen people mention that the teasers aren't colour corrected... but what if they weren't meant to be? What if the blown out hazy look of the teasers were meant to represent a memory of that scene. Not 'The Master Experience'. What if the reason PTA released these in only 720p was to achieve a fragment, a hazy look, not well defined and beautiful but a flashback. When you remember a memory, you don't really remember details, you remember just the focus of the memory, usually just the conversation etc.

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Weird, I posted this comment into the spoiler talk thread, and now it's here? Can someone tell me if they moved it to here, I was just being careful on where I posted it.

It was a tough decision to move it here as it does contain some minor spoilers. But the analytical content is brilliant and should be read by anyone interested in the trailers.

I don't know, I may live to regret it.

Further defense of the move:

I might be wrong. I should probably err on the side of caution and move it back to the forbidden zone but i just don't believe it's really a spoiler to know that footage from the trailer is not in the film. That concept in general is quite a common occurrence, it's not necessary to know which shots specifically didn't make it .. the point being made is PTA's use of this device.

That's cool Pubrick, I would have liked to post it here anyway, but I was too afraid that people would slap me around in the mud for doing so. But I see you've put a spoiler warning on the comments from Cigs&RedVines  :yabbse-thumbup:

he did the same thing with the scopitones back in pdl times. remember when the plan at one point was to edit an entire alternate version of pdl but he ended up doing 12 minutes (blossoms + blood)?

If you get the chance, check out this documentary from Adam Curtis "The Century of Self" --- it provides a really strong context of what happened when American soldiers returned from WW2, anxious, violent and depressed, and how the American government with the help of psychoanalysis reacted to this. It uses footage from the John Huston documentary, and as I was watching it I realized how both PD-L and TWBB and maybe The Master (which I haven't seen) all deal with repression, the irrational self and the desire to control the irrational self and return the individual to the status quo....I'm a newbie here and I'm sure this has been gone into before on these boards, it's just that watching the Adam Curtis doc - really highlighted that for me and touched upon stuff I've seen in The Master trailers....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmUzwRCyTSo

Episode starts at 0:58:34

While waiting patiently to see the movie, I was thinking about the names of characters in "The Master" and got nowhere. And then I thought that the name "Lancaster" might be a homage to Burt Lancaster - the star of "Sweet Smell of Success" and "Elmer Gantry".

PTA's debut was originally named after Tony Curtis' character in "Sweet Smell of Success", so I thought the name "Lancaster" might be a great connection.

I know there are probably more differences than similarities, but still, JJ Hunsecker and "Lancaster" are similarly powerful men, and Sydney Falco and "Freddie" will do almost anything to curry the favor of their "masters".

And, Philip Seymour Hoffman's Lancaster seems more vibrant and charismatic like Elmer Gantry than Paul Dano's Eli in "There Will Be Blood".

Yeah, I briefly mentioned the connection way back in page 4:

Quote from: InTylerWeTrust on August 11, 2012, 12:59:17 AM

Elmer Gantry (Burt LANCASTER plays the lead)

But good looking out.

Here's a bizarre fact.  Two posts in this thread (one of tyler and one of pubrick) are down voted.

weird.

it's not so bizarre.

when we first implemented the voting feature it had both down and upvote capabilities.

due to abuse by Tyler, aka Freddie, the down feature was removed and soon due to his abuse of the upvote feature (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=9379.msg318750#msg318750), as well as other psychotic displays, Tyler was banned altogether (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=9379.msg318775#msg318775). this is purely a historical post meant to fill you in on the events behind those solitary downvotes and any others you may find upon your travels.

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That makes much more sense. But now, I shall restore order to the universe and bring them back to zero.

Haha, the good old days. I cringe every time I read one of those old "InTylerWeTrust" posts. I was such a fucking moron (still am a little bit), just hope all is forgiven. I don't even dislike Pubrick anymore, I mean he's still a major douche, but a douche that posts good shit. Gotta respect that.