J.D Salinger and P.T

Started by children with angels, March 05, 2003, 10:38:59 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Print
Go Down Pages 1 2 3
User actions

Mesh

#15
May 20, 2003, 01:19:49 PM
Yer comparing Salinger to the wrong Anderson...

...try Wes (The Royal Tennenbaums, specifically).

children with angels

#16
May 20, 2003, 01:26:09 PM
Yeah, that's been brought up, and I agree - but although the subject matter of Wes' films may have more of an obvious connection, I feel the heart at the centre of PTA's movies, the feelings I get from them, have more in common with J.D. When I finished watching Magnolia for the first time, I felt an emotion I hadn't had since the first time I closed Catcher in the Rye. So happy, so sad, just - I don't know - pure emotion...
"Should I bring my own chains?"
"We always do..."

http://www.alternatetakes.co.uk/
http://thelesserfeat.blogspot.com/

SoNowThen

#17
May 20, 2003, 01:29:25 PM
Yes. I agree absolutely completely. Reading the last line in Catcher ("...you start missing everybody") is akin to Claudia smiling into camera. Like the man said, Pure Emotion. And beautiful.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

SoNowThen

#18
May 20, 2003, 01:35:06 PM
and Holden wanting to stand on the cliff and be the Catcher in the Rye... that's just like Jim wanting to help/forgive Claudia and Donnie Smith. This wonderful naivette of someone who wants to love people so much probably because it's the kind of love they wish someone would give to them. And then that makes me think of Holden wanting to call Jane....

and on and on
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

children with angels

#19
May 20, 2003, 01:38:15 PM
Totally. If there was a teenage character in Magnolia, spanning the gap between childhood and adulthood that's so clearly set up in the movie, it could easily be Holden.
"Should I bring my own chains?"
"We always do..."

http://www.alternatetakes.co.uk/
http://thelesserfeat.blogspot.com/

EL__SCORCHO

#20
May 20, 2003, 02:09:49 PM
I thought PTA got the idea for the game show in magnolia from his PA TV days.

godardian

#21
May 20, 2003, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: EL__SCORCHOI thought PTA got the idea for the game show in magnolia from his PA TV days.

Yeah, I don't think we're talking about "influences" or where he got the idea from here (though he does mention the Glass family in the Magnolia screenplay interview) so much as parallel themes/emotional responses we have. And in that case, PTA and Salinger don't seem terribly unlikely.

I do agree with the people who say Wes is closer to a direct Salinger parallel, with the quirks and foibles of the characters thrown into sharp relief and viewed with a certain affectionate but sardonic sadness. PTA is almost too emotional to be compared very directly with Salinger; their ways of getting at the emotions are fairly distinct from one another, whereas I think Wes utilizes a similar approach to the characters, a bit more dispassionate.

For example, I think the scene with Luke Wilson attempting suicide and post-attempt would've been very, very, very different if done by PTA. [/i]
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Mesh

#22
May 20, 2003, 02:51:16 PM
cwa and SoNowThen are pretty convincing above on the PTA/Magnolia/Salinger topic.  I don't think I see it in the rest of PTA's work, though...not much at least.

chainsmoking insomniac

#23
May 20, 2003, 02:58:17 PM
This is a very fucking cool thread.  You're all right-though Wes is clearly more pronounced, because there's something quite humorous about Salinger's Holden, and also quite odd and disconcerting; the same holds true for Wes's characters, whereas Anderson definitely spins a darker, more passionate tale about essentially the same 'brand' of people, if you'll pardon grouping. :wink:
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote: 'The world's a fine place, and worth fighting for.'  I agree with the second part."
    --Morgan Freeman, Se7en

"Have you ever fucking seen that...? Ever seen a mistake in nature?  Have you ever seen an animal make a mistake?"
 --Paul Schneider, All the Real Girls

Mesh

#24
May 20, 2003, 04:21:58 PM
Quote from: punchdrunk23PTA definitely spins a darker, more passionate tale about essentially the same 'brand' of people, if you'll pardon grouping. :wink:

Well......

Characters from Magnolia who wouldn't be caught dead in Salinger's fiction:

- Jimmy Gator
- Frank T.J. Mackie
- Linda Partridge
- The woman who interviews Frank
- Rick Spector (Stanley's Dad)

Neurotic, selfish people aren't Salinger's common stock.  Neither are media types.  His character's are quirky intellectuals, by and large, interrupted by sensitive savants (like Holden).

I guess I can see some Salinger qualities in some of Magnolia's themes...too much of a disconnected/connected ensemble, though, to be really close to the Salinger ethos.

neatahwanta

#25
May 20, 2003, 07:07:34 PM
Ug, I hated Catcher in the Rye....what a bunch of whiny crap.

children with angels

#26
May 20, 2003, 07:13:00 PM
If I hadn't related to it more than anything I've ever read/seen/heard I'd probably say the same thing.
"Should I bring my own chains?"
"We always do..."

http://www.alternatetakes.co.uk/
http://thelesserfeat.blogspot.com/

Pedro

#27
May 20, 2003, 08:54:04 PM
Quote from: children with angelsIf I hadn't related to it more than anything I've ever read/seen/heard I'd probably say the same thing.
same here

Ghostboy

#28
May 21, 2003, 01:41:14 AM
Catcher was the first thing I read of his, too, and I also thought it was sorta whiny. But then I read everything else he'd ever written (that's in print, at least) and loved it, and when I went back to Catcher, I saw it in a new light and loved it too.

godardian

#29
May 21, 2003, 10:14:29 AM
I think Catcher is wonderful- the whininess really goes away by the time you've reached the end of the book, I think, and can see the character's observations in perspective- but I actually prefer Nine Stories and Franny and Zooey. Especially Franny and Zooey
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.
Print
Go Up Pages 1 2 3
User actions