Girls

[malkovich]

or at least someone with a convincing argument against it.

key phrase.

There's been a lot of vitriolic backlash against it and Dunham, though. It's kinda crazy. Film Crit Hulk wrote an excellent piece addressing it.

[polkablues]

Most of the critiques against this show seem to either revolve around extra-textual issues (THE ACTORS HAVE FAMOUS PARENTS!!!) or misinterpretations of its intentions (IT EXPECTS US TO SYMPATHIZE WITH VAPID YOUTHS!!!).  I can certainly see how the show might not be someone's individual taste, but some of vitriol that's been spewed at it across the internet has been baffling.

[malkovich]

Especially the second argument, because it's actually what the show DOESN'T expect you to do. I mean, most, if not all, of the characters are unlikable people. They're relatable not in their specific circumstances, but in the feelings they're experiencing. And if anything, the show is being wonderfully critical of the "rich white people problems" people accuse them of trying to humanize and make seem important.

[BB]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't HATE the show with the same seething rage that the internet does. It's just not to my personal tastes and seems to me a little too slight to justify the hype.

I think the rampant misreading of the show as an endorsement of the characters' lifestyles speaks to a larger problem in mainstream media, wherein every character who is not obviously a villain need be "likeable" (as opposed to interesting or engaging). It's as if people have gotten so used to the phenomenon that when a lead character is not likeable in the traditional, banal sense, they are unable to see him/her as such and the whole thing simply does not compute. Couple this confusion with the show being "smart" and you have a perfect recipe for hostility.

As far as the charges of nepotism go, I understand where those folks are coming from. It is hard to get a foot in the door without some kind of leg up. But it's obviously unfair to hold this against any benefiting parties. What's really weird about it in this case is the parents are just sort of fringe famous. Brian Williams is the only one an average person is likely to know. Possibly Mamet, but probably not. 

Also, there's no doubt that the reaction is so severe because Lena Dunham is a woman. If Damien Hirst's son got together with Matt Lauer's son and made a quirky TV show, nobody would say shit. In fact, it's entirely likely nobody would even know about their famous dads.

[modage]

Most of the critiques against this show seem to either revolve around extra-textual issues (THE ACTORS HAVE FAMOUS PARENTS!!!) or misinterpretations of its intentions (IT EXPECTS US TO SYMPATHIZE WITH VAPID YOUTHS!!!).  I can certainly see how the show might not be someone's individual taste, but some of vitriol that's been spewed at it across the internet has been baffling.

EXACTLY. Exactly this.

[©brad]

Most of the critiques against this show seem to either revolve around extra-textual issues (THE ACTORS HAVE FAMOUS PARENTS!!!) or misinterpretations of its intentions (IT EXPECTS US TO SYMPATHIZE WITH VAPID YOUTHS!!!).  I can certainly see how the show might not be someone's individual taste, but some of vitriol that's been spewed at it across the internet has been baffling.

Those don't really bother me. The biggest and most justified criticism against this show is the race issue. There's absolutely no reason why these 4 girls all had to be white. Especially since we all had to endure 6 years of the shamelessly white, completely fantasized New York in Sex and the City. Dunham herself claims casting was a "complete accident" and would rectify it if they get a second season, so we'll see.

[modage]

Yeah but. Wouldn't it have been more insulting had HBO forced her to cast someone of race just to fulfill a quota? She cast 4 white people in the lead, so what? So does Mad Men, so does Breaking Bad, so does The Sopranos, so do tons of shows. I just can't understand how this show of all shows has been seized upon for some of these issues...

[©brad]

It's an apples and oranges comparison for me. Mad Men and Sopranos are shows in large part about race and class, depicting worlds that are insulated to a fault. It was a calculated choice to have all-white primary characters, and they deliberately tell stories about how these insulated worlds collide with different ethnic groups. Girls is a show priding itself in its realness and authentic portrayal of New York City living in your 20s, modern relationships, and post-college malaise. This is shit we ALL go through, not just spoiled white girls.

It's just such a boooring choice. It's 20-fucking-12. You're on HBO. You can do whatever you want. Unless you're making a grand comment on race and how we still self-segregate, which I'm not convinced the show is doing, why be yet another dating show full of white people? Sure there are certainly large parts of the city that self-segregate. WASPY, republitard finance guys living in Murray Hill keep to their own (thank christ). But these girls are hipstery east villagers/brooklynites. They would have friends from many races and walks of life. That's a big reason why we all live here to begin with.

[modage]

Yeah I mean if that's what keeps you from enjoying it, fine. But it's still a great show. Why doesn't the show include ______X______ is besides the point. The answer is: because it doesn't. Why isn't it capturing my experience as a white dude? Because it's not. But I can still empathize with the characters.

But these girls are hipstery east villagers/brooklynites. They would have friends from many races and walks of life. That's a big reason why we all live here to begin with.

I feel like you're holding the show against some expectation that it's supposed to represent the absolute truth of the world right now. The show and no one behind the show has ever said this. If the media made it seem like that's the case, that has nothing to do with the show itself.

This is shit we ALL go through, not just spoiled white girls.

But if the show is about spoiled white girls, as you put it, that's totally valid. As long as it's telling an interesting, funny, real, story about them, right?

Read this.

Film Crit Hulk wrote an excellent piece addressing it.

[BB]

Girls is a show priding itself in its realness and authentic portrayal of New York City living in your 20s, modern relationships, and post-college malaise.

Is it? To me, these characters seem pretty broad and unrealistic. Which isn't a problem. The show derives its humor from over-the-top characterizations and their ridiculous behavior.

The issue are relatable but everything else is sort of heightened. Right? There aren't masses of people actually like this for real, are there?

[©brad]

Ugh all caps. He doesn't dismiss the race criticism, rather just makes the point that the show is only 2 episodes in and we should reserve our judgment.

Mod I see what you're saying but just because the show is entertaining and relatable doesn't absolve it from this racial criticism. I watched the first two episodes and I liked them. A lot actually. Which makes the lack of diversity sting even more, because it's such a missed opportunity that in my mind would make the show truly great and even kind of groundbreaking. Minorities are largely ignored or caricatured in so much of television. This concept (and certainly the title) are broad enough that there's no justifiable reason not to mix up the cast, especially when it takes place in a city full of color.

I will say Dunham and her team should take some backwards compliment to all the backlash, which I'd admit is a bit overheated. Had she made a banal show no one would be criticizing because no one would give a shit.

[modage]

This concept (and certainly the title) are broad enough that there's no justifiable reason not to mix up the cast, especially when it takes place in a city full of color.

But this is not a CBS sitcom. It did not come from a focus group. The responsibility is not on this show to be all things to all people. It's great because its viewpoint is limited! This is Dunham's show and we can speculate as to why she cast herself and 3 whities - maybe her 3 closest friends upon whom she based the characters are white, maybe she doesn't know enough about the black/hispanic/indian/whatever experience to confidently write for those characters? - but the fact is that it doesn't matter. Until the show actually delves into race in some insensitive way, it is not a part of a larger conspiracy to keep minorities off of television. It just isn't. Wouldn't it have been so much more depressing to see a poster that looked like an ad for Bratz dolls? Wouldn't people feel pandered to? Wouldn't it be worse to force that upon the artist to serve the public when it wasn't her intention?

I think you can write whatever convenient rules you want for why Mad Men or Breaking Bad or Freaks & Geeks isn't responsible for this but Girls is but it's just making your own justifications.

Also: The AV Club weighs in...
http://www.avclub.com/articles/our-white-people-problems-problem-why-its-time-to,72974/

[©brad]

This concept (and certainly the title) are broad enough that there's no justifiable reason not to mix up the cast, especially when it takes place in a city full of color.

But this is not a CBS sitcom.

Exactly. It doesn't have to succumb to focus group thinking. 90% of TV deserves and should receive the same racial critique but 90% of TV sucks and isn't worth wasting life talking about.

It's great because its viewpoint is limited!

Please explain to me how a show taking place in New York City circa 2012 is great because it's excluding people that very much exist here. 

Wouldn't it have been so much more depressing to see a poster that looked like an ad for Bratz dolls? Wouldn't people feel pandered to? Wouldn't it be worse to force that upon the artist to serve the public when it wasn't her intention?

If the character was fully developed and not a one-dimensional caricature it wouldn't be pandering at all. This is the defense, we're not going to reflect the diversity of a city in fear of coming off pandering? Writers that aren't hacks should be able to write for anyone. 

I think you can write whatever convenient rules you want for why Mad Men or Breaking Bad or Freaks & Geeks isn't responsible for this but Girls is but it's just making your own justifications.

What convenient rules am I writing? The Sopranos was about racist people in New Jersey. Mad Men takes place in an advertising agency in 1965 and still has more black people than this show (this season at least). It doesn't make sense dramatically to give Carmela Soprano a black best friend to go on brunch dates, but it definitely makes sense to give these liberal-artsy girls living in freakin' Brooklyn a diverse group of friends to hang with.

I like the show fine. It's okay to like something and have problems with it.

[Pubrick]

[modage]

Exactly. It doesn't have to succumb to focus group thinking. 90% of TV deserves and should receive the same racial critique but 90% of TV sucks and isn't worth wasting life talking about.

I'm not sure you can be selective. It's either an issue worth discussing or it's not. My problem with this Girls backlash is that other shows aren't being put under the same kind of scrutiny.

Please explain to me how a show taking place in New York City circa 2012 is great because it's excluding people that very much exist here. 

Because viewpoints are specific and trying to make something for everyone is boring. When the artist's intent is being watered down to cater to a larger audience, it sucks.

If the character was fully developed and not a one-dimensional caricature it wouldn't be pandering at all. This is the defense, we're not going to reflect the diversity of a city in fear of coming off pandering?

Why is it the show's job to "reflect the diversity of the city?" Wouldn't that also include old Jewish people, Indian cab drivers and Upper East Side rich kids and on and on. Those people exist too but when did it become this show's responsibility to tell their stories? Like, where do you draw the line? The version of NYC the show is presenting isn't denying those people exist, they're just not the central characters on the show. What about Friends? What about Flight of the Conchords? What about Seinfeld? These are all shows with a specific viewpoint. How To Make It In America reflected the diversity of the city but it just wasn't a good show.