PTA vs Fincher

Started by meatball, October 18, 2003, 05:35:36 PM

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meatball

#45
October 29, 2003, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: mollyIn support groups people are just continuing their roles they have played all their life. After few meetings you can recognize who's The Boss, The Scapegoat, The Baby of the group...
If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".

Jeezus... just toss those labels around on people.  :?

molly

#46
October 29, 2003, 06:45:47 PM
Quote from: meatball
Quote from: mollyIn support groups people are just continuing their roles they have played all their life. After few meetings you can recognize who's The Boss, The Scapegoat, The Baby of the group...
If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".

Jeezus... just toss those labels around on people.  :?

They are not labels, quite the opposite - it's only a description of somebody's usual behaviour, and that somebody coud work on him/herself to adjust the behaviour to the situation, not to play always on the same "music" in the head.

Alethia

#47
October 29, 2003, 10:29:52 PM
is there anybody here, besides me, who really DISLIKED fight club, cuz i seem to be in the minority.  im beginning to feel guilty for disliking this film...and ive seen it more than once to try and see what others see in it and i just don't.....is there something wrong with me??

Banky

#48
October 29, 2003, 10:30:39 PM
yeah, i think you might be alone

Cecil

#49
October 29, 2003, 10:31:02 PM
yes. youre in love with bret ratner

SHAFTR

#50
October 29, 2003, 11:00:43 PM
Quote from: molly
If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".

so you are validating the truth of one movie with another movie?
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"

coffeebeetle

#51
October 29, 2003, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: ewardis there anybody here, besides me, who really DISLIKED fight club, cuz i seem to be in the minority.  im beginning to feel guilty for disliking this film...and ive seen it more than once to try and see what others see in it and i just don't.....is there something wrong with me??

You're not alone man.  I didn't particularly like it either.  It fell apart after the first "act"....The beginning started off strong though.
more than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. one path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. the other, to total extinction. let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
woody allen (side effects - 1980)

molly

#52
October 30, 2003, 02:29:31 AM
Quote from: SHAFTR
Quote from: molly
If you don't believe me, watch "Lorenzo's Oil".

so you are validating the truth of one movie with another movie?

You can join a support group also.
Fight Club upsets people because it faced us with the fact that life is sometimes a valley of tears, and sometimes you can't find a reason good enough or strong enough to wake up early in the morning, have coffee, a healthy breakfast, brush your teeth, dress up, drive to your work, handle all that crap that comes in your way every day, then go home, eat sth healthy, workout to keep your body and mind in shape... Not all people have interesting and fulfilling job. Norton's character didn't get a multiple personality disorder out of nothing. In Trainspotting Renton was taking drugs. Sometimes people go all the way and reach the bottom only to realize that the life they had was good, worth living. These fights made them to feel winners sometimes. Made them also to punch and get punched - made them feel alive. Some people handle emotional pain by making it physical - physical pain goes away eventually, and emotional stays, so every now and then they have to repeat the "procedure".
You know what's  funny? - I have Magnolia and Fight Club on the same tape, one after another. Both were on TV around New year and I taped them.
Fight Club deals with the dark side, with things nobody likes to admit they are (sometimes) true. Sick people can sometimes be a handful, and there are also support groups for the members of the family who look after them. Once I saw a young woman with a manic depressive psychosis who also suffered from a disorder of her thyroid gland and a man who lost both his legs - one he lost  due to Buerger's disease, and the other in a car accident. Imagine how they feel - no matter how nice they originally are sometimes they can't handle the dissapointment inside and spill it all around.

Gold Trumpet

#53
October 30, 2003, 10:12:20 AM
Quote from: mollyYou can join a support group also.
Fight Club upsets people because it faced us with the fact that life is sometimes a valley of tears, and sometimes you can't find a reason good enough or strong enough to wake up early in the morning, have coffee, a healthy breakfast, brush your teeth, dress up, drive to your work, handle all that crap that comes in your way every day, then go home, eat sth healthy, workout to keep your body and mind in shape... Not all people have interesting and fulfilling job. Norton's character didn't get a multiple personality disorder out of nothing. In Trainspotting Renton was taking drugs. Sometimes people go all the way and reach the bottom only to realize that the life they had was good, worth living. These fights made them to feel winners sometimes. Made them also to punch and get punched - made them feel alive. Some people handle emotional pain by making it physical - physical pain goes away eventually, and emotional stays, so every now and then they have to repeat the "procedure".
You know what's  funny? - I have Magnolia and Fight Club on the same tape, one after another. Both were on TV around New year and I taped them.
Fight Club deals with the dark side, with things nobody likes to admit they are (sometimes) true. Sick people can sometimes be a handful, and there are also support groups for the members of the family who look after them. Once I saw a young woman with a manic depressive psychosis who also suffered from a disorder of her thyroid gland and a man who lost both his legs - one he lost  due to Buerger's disease, and the other in a car accident. Imagine how they feel - no matter how nice they originally are sometimes they can't handle the dissapointment inside and spill it all around.

You know, I'd like to believe that paragraph on Fight Club, but I just can't. Some of the issues you talked about the movie are definitely true. Its just I think it is on a more superficial level of saying what the movie is physically talking about, instead of having aims to really dig into the matter. Fight Club is much too slick for me, too filled with goals of a genre and style to really believe this very heartfelt two paragraphs. With the ending, the untrue intentions of Fight Club are finally realized when the realization of Norton to who he was is used as just a movie ploy for a "clever reverse". The ending is a fight between Norton and Pitt for the impossible idea of Norton actually killing Pitt when he is him. Little remains of any beginning ideas with dealing with the pains of society. In my mind, everything before of matter is just used in the tradition of a stock movie set up. Norton's tramau with society is the dramatic weight the movie can ride on and also the set up to situations very unfitting to the original idea of Norton's tramau.

I may be going in another route than original discussion, but I just saw a clear endorsement of Fight Club I disagreed with.

~rougerum

SoNowThen

#54
October 30, 2003, 10:20:10 AM
Fight Club is about the disenfranchised, emasculated modern male trying to regain his manhood through different routes (male bonding, sport/fighting, early-stage facism, then finally finding love with a woman?!), and it does it in a darkly satirical way. I think to tack on anything more to the support groups or multiple personalities than is necessary is to divert the intentions of the film. So while I can't see it from the same light as Molly, I'd also have to disagree with GT, because of course I think it is brilliant.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

SHAFTR

#55
October 30, 2003, 12:19:45 PM
Fight Club is brilliant, but it's more of an excercise in style than about humanity.  I'm surprised to read that people felt moved by this film.  It definitely has a message but I don't think the message has anything to do with cancer or support groups.  They were just used to advance the narrative, nothing more than a simple plot device.
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"

mutinyco

#56
October 30, 2003, 12:25:00 PM
If I had to complain about Fight Club, my main argument would be about something from the book that was altered. In the book Tyler was really after immortality. It was about dying to become myth or legend, the start of a new religion if you will. The movie didn't have that. It was probably deemed too controversial. I think by missing that element some of the motivation was lost in the film. The focus was different.
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Alethia

#57
October 30, 2003, 07:18:11 PM
Quote from: Cecilyes. youre in love with bret ratner

lol.  actually, i don't particularly like him very much, but I think there are better people to bash.

Finn

#58
October 30, 2003, 07:25:33 PM
He's okay, his best movie was easily Red Dragon.
Typical US Mother: "Remember what the MPAA says; Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words."

SHAFTR

#59
October 30, 2003, 10:27:48 PM
Quote from: SydneyHe's okay, his best movie was easily Red Dragon.

I disagree...for what it was trying to accomplish..Rush Hour is his best film.
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"
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