Xixax Film Forum

I'm between a rock and a hard place here because tonight I'm supposed to be making a short (4-6 minute) film for my film class and my lead actor just had to bail for play rehearsal.  Now, any cutting remarks about end of the line shooting are 100% right, but I already know all that.  What I need, fast, is a simple premise that we could shoot tonight involving 2-3 people.

If anyone has something lay it down.  Or fuck, just write one out.  I need something at least half-way decent fast.  We're shooting tonight at 8.

Quote from: AwkwardAsIAmI'm between a rock and a hard place here because tonight I'm supposed to be making a short (4-6 minute) film for my film class and my lead actor just had to bail for play rehearsal.  Now, any cutting remarks about end of the line shooting are 100% right, but I already know all that.  What I need, fast, is a simple premise that we could shoot tonight involving 2-3 people.

If anyone has something lay it down.  Or fuck, just write one out.  I need something at least half-way decent fast.  We're shooting tonight at 8.

It sounds like despite your friend going MIA, you weren't terribly happy with the original project to begin with. Why not simply get somebody else to play the lead in this short? It seems like a lot less work than getting your actors to pickup something totally new in a few hours.

The whole thing is kind of falling apart.  Two of the crew members aren't going to be able to make it until midnight.  The lead actor was cast specifically because of how he looks.

It's basically down to me and four other guys trying to put this thing together.  Which is kind of embarassing but I can do it, I know I can do it.  I just need a premise that'll make it work.

I know where you're coming from. For me, coming up with that last minute premise sometimes turns out to be better than whatever I had started with. In fact, this happened recently. The key here, i think, is to be as formalistic as possible, and eschew conventional storytelling, because that takes too long. Something with a narration is easy to pull off, and you can use more visuals this way without making sure they work on their own.

As for a premise, I dunno, make something up, or rip off some movie no one's ever seen.

Shoot something involving microwave popcorn. Just an idea that hit me, but have the character put the popcorn in the microwave, and as soon as it happens have a momentus change in tempo (break in, phone call from lost love, scrambled porn on the TV). The character deals with this new situation while the popcorn is popping and when the microwave dings the resolution is reached. Hell, part of the resolution could be the serving/sharing of the popcorn.

Well, I just reread your post and it said you're shooting at 8, so it may be late. Good luck regardless.

three actors sitting or hanging out in a room with props. and each does a bit. and u think they're acting. and they are. but then one of them punches himself in the throat and calls the ambulance, which arrives promptly to pick him up, wheel him off. and the two remaining freaks are left staring at each other blankly for a minute or so.

It's the day after now. How did it go? What premise did you shoot?

We went simple.

Two kids enter a suburban home, one doesn't want to and the other coaxes him.  There is a man in the house.  The kids come into the man's room, he is hiding in the bathroom with a gun, comes out and one kid runs out of the room, man slams door, trapping him and the other kid in the room.  It's been a fuck of a day for this man and he's drunk, on the edge.  He antagonizes the kid, tells the kid to kill him, that he might as well kill him, that no one knows the boy is in house, that it is his gun, that he is drunk, that the boy should kill him.  And somewhere in all of this he shoots himself.  The kid runs out of the room.

Egh.

I'd say pretentious is overkill.  Forced.  Forced is a good word for what we filmed.
*edit*
Where'd the kid who posted pretentious go?

Quote from: AwkwardAsIAmI'd say pretentious is overkill.  Forced.  Forced is a good word for what we filmed.
*edit*
Where'd the kid who posted pretentious go?

I felt like a dick for asking if it was pretentious.  It was a comment that seemed nastier than intended, so I axed it.  Sorry dude.

No but I can see where you're coming from.  Completely.  It's hard enough to find the balance, but then in film school it seems even harder, you know.  It's only my first year, so I'm working with a group of six people and they want to do stuff like suicides in bathrooms and razor blade days, stuff they think is real deep you know.  I want to exploit the everyday properties of man, the casual epic as it may be, and that sounds boring to them.  Hell, it sounds boring to most people.  So we have to find a line we can all walk.

That was our line.  And doing projets like these proves to me that a film should not be a group effort.

Quote from: AwkwardAsIAmNo but I can see where you're coming from.  Completely.  It's hard enough to find the balance, but then in film school it seems even harder, you know.  It's only my first year, so I'm working with a group of six people and they want to do stuff like suicides in bathrooms and razor blade days, stuff they think is real deep you know.  I want to exploit the everyday properties of man, the casual epic as it may be, and that sounds boring to them.  Hell, it sounds boring to most people.  So we have to find a line we can all walk.

That was our line.  And doing projets like these proves to me that a film should not be a group effort.

don't worry dude, that's like 95 percent of student filmmaking.  just sift through those self-indulgers, you'll find some others that can look outside the box.  problem is since they're more likely just out of high school they've got nothing to say so they result to PSA style moody films.  they feel comfort in the cliché because they don't know what they think about social issues yet, but still want to be an artist.

i think what you want to make is great, not enough films on that subject!  like Wim Wenders or something, shit i love Paris Texas.  Just write a kick ass script and people will flock to you.

see the thing is, the average film class has 50 or so students.  of those 50 i'd say that 4 or 5 are good filmmakers, and maybe a couple good cinematographers and the same for editors (everyone goes in wanting to be the next tarantino or smith or pta but soon realize they have other strengths).

However, it is very rare if a class of 50 even has one good scriptwriter.  scripts are like 60 percent of a film, and most people can't write anything good for shit.  so if you got a tight script that kicks ass and is about something off the beaten path then your profs will like it and others will come running to the project cause you're original.

best of luck, sometimes i feel the same way about the group aspect of filmmaking but then i meet some people that are really talented and everything changes.

-sl-

Yes, the people you surround yourself with makes all the difference.  Most often, the best people to surround yourself with is NOT other filmmakers.  Filmmaking should be a group effort, but it's gotta be a focused one, and everyone's gotta be totally onboard and know who the director is.  A group of filmmakers (by which I mostly mean people who want to direct) will clash, and most of them suck absolute balls, and so there will be pressure that there shouldn't be, and a lack of focus--a messy final product will result.

Just really don't rush into things.  Make sure that you trust and respect all of your collaborators, and then you'll really feel free to actually COLLABORATE with them, instead of clashing with them.  That's filmmaking as it should be.  This is the situation with my current crew, and I feel great about it.  For once, I have absolute faith and there's not a doubt in my mind that they will each make this movie better, and that no one will drop out or be half-assed.  We're all going for the same thing, and they all respect me as a director and leader of the production, and I respect them as collaborators.  So now I really feel like this is OUR movie, in the best way possible, as opposed to just my movie.  In other words, I don't feel alone going into this production.

I found the opposite to be true. People didn't care enough. Either they're flirting with each other, or they're just slackers. I was steering the boat and although I was in command, I was in charge of people who didn't know left from right.

I got along with those filmmakers you mentioned, because they did have a clear idea of what should be done and how to get it done. They had the drive and the respect to do their alotted roles. And we never clashed because everybody knew that on that project, the director was king. They actually provided me with a lot of good suggestions that improved my projects. But this is two people out of twenty.

seriously tho, how awesome was my premise, it works as a play too.

Quote from: MI found the opposite to be true. People didn't care enough. Either they're flirting with each other, or they're just slackers. I was steering the boat and although I was in command, I was in charge of people who didn't know left from right.

I got along with those filmmakers you mentioned, because they did have a clear idea of what should be done and how to get it done. They had the drive and the respect to do their alotted roles. And we never clashed because everybody knew that on that project, the director was king. They actually provided me with a lot of good suggestions that improved my projects. But this is two people out of twenty.

I should clarify that I meant your most trusted people, who you know will be on task and have the same goals as you do for the movie--really just wanting to make the movie as good as can be.  A lot of people are often excited about movies and filmmaking, but they're really sloppy and half-assed when it comes to doing their job when it comes down to it--this is my experience anyway.  They're way too seduced by the glamour of making a movie, and not really interested in the work, especially pre-production; all that boring stuff that has to be done before you shoot a single frame.

I've just had the best experience with using people that I know and love and who are eager to make this the best movie it can be and aren't afraid of the hard work, with whom I also have a personal shorthand with.  I can communicate with them in a way so that they can absolutely understand what I'm going for.  I find that communication to be more difficult with other filmmakers, but then again, I've never met any other very serious filmmakers--they were all just very amateur people.  THEY thought they were serious, but they really weren't.  They were just easily excitable with regards to the idea of movie making, again, without any real will to work.

So all I can really do is reiterate that it all depends on the people that you surround yourself with.  20 people loafing around is going to hurt the movie.  You frankly probably would've been better off with just those two other people.  Have as many people as you can who share your vision and attitude, and eliminate everybody else.  As a producer, you want to get rid of any fat in your production.

Quote from: matt35mmSo all I can really do is reiterate that it all depends on the people that you surround yourself with.  20 people loafing around is going to hurt the movie.  You frankly probably would've been better off with just those two other people.  Have as many people as you can who share your vision and attitude, and eliminate everybody else.  As a producer, you want to get rid of any fat in your production.

I agree. I meant two people I could really depend on out of a pool of twenty classmates who I'd regularly be grouped together with. All I've ever experienced was a reliable camera operator, actors, and myself. Everybody else was just fat on the bones.

I also noticed the whole phenomena of just being caught up in the glamour of movie making. It's incredibly annoying, as they don't get any work done and would rather just sit around and talk about nothing related to the actual production.

Quote from: Mthe glamour of movie making.

i wonder if u've ever made a movie.

Quote from: Pubrickseriously tho, how awesome was my premise, it works as a play too.

only thing is he should start elbowing himself in the balls instead of a punch to the throat.  and it goes on too long, like uncomfortably too long so it's not just slapstick.  he proceeds to do this until he passes out.

-sl-

M, i think you've met the wrong people, and shit i've been in your situation it's horrible.   however, sometimes all they need is to be inspired.  one of the greatest jobs as a director is to convince other people that they want what you want.  and you'll get all that much farther (and they will be all that more dedicated) if you let them think they thought of the idea you just gave them.  then they'll feel like it's their thing, which is essential.  and that's only speaking of the people that don't seem to have any ideas or their ideas kinda suck shit.  

but... if you ever start to think everyone's ideas suck shit then you might want to look over yourself, because you might be the problem (and i mean the royal you, liket the editorial).  I found i was doing that a bit in the past so i started actually listening to peoples ideas and opinions.  but sometimes the situation just sucks and the people are not dependable so i hear ya.

matt35mm, are you all about the auteur thing?  I don't need people to think i'm the cat's meow or something, and agree with every point i make.  i think it's important to have the ability i mention above and it's kinda manipulative, but sometimes people just have a better idea, or a clearer idea that just brings the scene together.  and shit, whatever makes the film better i'm happy with.  i think a film can be interesting when it's the amalgimation from a group of different creative energies.  it is a collaborative form foremost and directing is about micro managing, not dictating.  is all you want a bunch of pawns and grunts or something? not opinions.

I'm gonna watch The Big Lebowski now...

Quote from: Pubrick

Quote from: Mthe glamour of movie making.

i wonder if u've ever made a movie.

I don't wonder with you.

Quote from: M

Quote from: Pubrick

Quote from: Mthe glamour of movie making.

i wonder if u've ever made a movie.

I don't wonder with you.

Ooh! Have you seen his movies plz msn me to send. my msn is in the sig.  :wink: I'd also like your movies. As many as possible to take up space on my drive. My drive has to look really full or my boss gets angry at mne all the time. u]THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE[/u]

Thanks!

Quote from: socketlevelmatt35mm, are you all about the auteur thing?  I don't need people to think i'm the cat's meow or something, and agree with every point i make.  i think it's important to have the ability i mention above and it's kinda manipulative, but sometimes people just have a better idea, or a clearer idea that just brings the scene together.  and shit, whatever makes the film better i'm happy with.  i think a film can be interesting when it's the amalgimation from a group of different creative energies.  it is a collaborative form foremost and directing is about micro managing, not dictating.  is all you want a bunch of pawns and grunts or something? not opinions.

I'm not at all about the auteur thing--I disagree with it.  I'm the kind of guy who would never put "A Matt Latham Film" or "A Film By Matt Latham" on the credits.  Filmmaking, for me, is an absolutely collaborative process--which is why it's INSANELY IMPORTANT who is involved in the movie.  It's why I'm extremely selective about who gets involved with the production.  I hire the crew as a Producer, not as a Director.

There needs to be a guide, a focus--and that's the director--but the film is made by everyone on that set.  When I say that I don't like working with other filmmakers, it's because I've only had negative experiences with the ones that I know--they're the ones who think that suicide is deep, man, or just want to make messy silly movies.  When I say that I'm making a movie, my experience is that the people who jump up and go, "Hey can I be in it?" or "Can I do whatever on it?" etc. are not the people I want.  I just never want to work with anyone that I secretly think is an idiot.  I have to respect my collaborators.  And I do, very much so, for our current production, which is making this whole process very comfortable and focused.  And they're not a bunch of Yes-Men, and they constantly challenge what I'm doing and the words that I've written (which is what I want), and they're almost always good challenges, good points.  They often give great ideas as well.  I've got really smart people who I love and trust working with me--and that's the kind of collaboration that I want.

I think films can hold much more weight and depth and ideas than can be given by any one person, definitely.  And I'm eager for and appreciative of all the great ideas that the cast and crew put into the movie.  There's so much great stuff that I just can't think of, and so I'd never get in the way of letting anybody in the movie bring something to the table that will make the movie better.  I try to make it clear to everyone in the production that this isn't just my movie--it really IS our movie.  It's become a very organic process and I rarely have to put my foot down or argue with or yell at anyone; we all just get together and discuss everything as much as possible, and there really will be a bit of all of us in the final movie.

Quote from: matt35mmWhen I say that I'm making a movie, my experience is that the people who jump up and go, "Hey can I be in it?" or "Can I do whatever on it?" etc. are not the people I want.  I just never want to work with anyone that I secretly think is an idiot.

Enthusiastic people are idiots, or is it because you have no knowledge of the person and what they're capable of? Once you start working on professional sets, you're constantly working with complete strangers. And enthusiasm is often a rare thing, the sense I get is that many of the people are doing it just to add something to their resume or make a few new friends. The only person who really cares is the director because they're putting the fate of their careers into the film.

Quote from: MThe only person who really cares is the director because they're putting the fate of their careers into the film.

See, this is the problem.  If they don't care, then they should be off the set.  Simple as that.  This is Our Movie.  This is Our Work of Art.  How can one make art without caring?  This is why you need to be very careful about selecting your cast and crew--you need people that you can feel comfortable with putting the movie in their hands, and then you have to just really put the movie in their hands and trust them, not dictate or micro-manage.  You GUIDE them.  That's direction.

It's just that enthusiam does not equal care.  Enthusiam equals "omigosh, like, movies are so cool and I think it would be, like, interesting to work on one?"

Quote from: matt35mm

Quote from: MThe only person who really cares is the director because they're putting the fate of their careers into the film.

See, this is the problem.  If they don't care, then they should be off the set.  Simple as that.

Not for a union grip who's making his living. He doesn't need to care about the integrity of the scene where the lead actor experiences an epiphany. He just needs to know how to place the lights and rig shit better than anybody else on the set. Are you going to bump him off the set for the passionate artist?

Quote from: matt35mmThis is Our Movie.  This is Our Work of Art.  How can one make art without caring?  This is why you need to be very careful about selecting your cast and crew--you need people that you can feel comfortable with putting the movie in their hands, and then you have to just really put the movie in their hands and trust them, not dictate or micro-manage.  You GUIDE them.  That's direction.

This is great if you're a student filmmaker. Even if you are a student filmmaker making your first serious short film, you hire the best DP in town or the best Production Designer in town. They don't necessarily need to love your movie, though it helps. From my experience, they mostly just want to work.

Quote from: matt35mmIt's just that enthusiam does not equal care.  Enthusiam equals "omigosh, like, movies are so cool and I think it would be, like, interesting to work on one?"

If you pulled people off Universal City Walk and pointed a camera at them and told them they'd be on American Idol, that's the common response. You need professionals, first and foremost, who will do the job.

A lot of behind the scenes docs (i.e. Lord of the Rings) make it seem like everybody is one big creative happy family. In the end, everybody is doing a job as best as they possibly can. That's caring. Enthusiasm for the movie motivates them to do their job even better.

The only people I can think of who are truly about "This Is Our Movie, This Is Our Work of Art" are Andy Warhol and his crew of merry artists.

M is right in everything he just said.

Posted in size 9 because it's a damn long post.

Quote from: socketlevelM, i think you've met the wrong people, and shit i've been in your situation it's horrible.   however, sometimes all they need is to be inspired.  one of the greatest jobs as a director is to convince other people that they want what you want.  and you'll get all that much farther (and they will be all that more dedicated) if you let them think they thought of the idea you just gave them.  then they'll feel like it's their thing, which is essential.  and that's only speaking of the people that don't seem to have any ideas or their ideas kinda suck shit.

Well, I was forced to work with these people because of the classroom situation. I admit, maybe they lax'd off because I wasn't playing teacher to them. I was their classmate, their peer, and I wasn't yelling at them through a speakerphone. Thus, the flirting and the overall casualness of things. When I needed something of them, I'd just direct: "Hey, Joe.. Put that plant over there would you? And Mary, deflect the light over here a little bit." I'm not going to subtly manipulate Joe into moving the plant by himself. Waste of energy.

Despite their casual attitudes, my crew members did think of a lot of ideas themselves that I hadn't thought of. I'd like to think it was because they saw the director in creative spirits, getting work done. Not because I was trying to consciously guide them. The only guidance I do is with my actors. Everyone else shouldn't need my guidance, they should just do their jobs.

Quote from: socketlevelbut... if you ever start to think everyone's ideas suck shit then you might want to look over yourself, because you might be the problem (and i mean the royal you, liket the editorial).  I found i was doing that a bit in the past so i started actually listening to peoples ideas and opinions.  but sometimes the situation just sucks and the people are not dependable so i hear ya.

All of my classmates were creative, intelligent people, thank god. I never thought their ideas sucked shit at all. They just didn't have a solid work ethic, because it was still a group project to them with a bunch of friends. The results were great, and we all had an enjoyable time doing it.

I wasn't too keen on forming a set heirarchy. I've been on amateur/student sets that had very strict heirarchy and it's just damn oppressive. I don't get off on the power trip of being a director. I get off on what I'm actually capturing with the camera.

It seems like you guys know what works for you when directing a crew. I'm of a totally different mindset. It's not my priority to direct the crew. I care about what's in front of the camera. All I want from the crew is to take my directions and not slack off.

Likewise, when I'm a crewmember -- a good director is one that knows what they want. Period. They tell me what to do, I'll do it. I'll do things for a director who's clueless, but I won't like it. And only because I'm obligated. I'll detect and resent any type of subtle manipulation or power tripping that's directed towards me as a crewmember. It's not necessary at all.

So, yes, I suppose avoid the casual enthusiasts who don't expect making a movie is going to be hard work. But don't allow yourself to believe it's one communical artistic orgy. It's sweat and pain and boredom and long hours.[/size]

Quote from: MNot for a union grip who's making his living. He doesn't need to care about the integrity of the scene where the lead actor experiences an epiphany. He just needs to know how to place the lights and rig shit better than anybody else on the set. Are you going to bump him off the set for the passionate artist?

I would.  I guess what I said needs to be revised a bit--of course I want somebody who is damn good at their job.  But I do want everyone to care about the integrity of the movie they're working on.  I want everyone involved more creatively.  Yeah, there are the people who just do the job, like any other job, lugging things around with no real care about the specific movie they're working on.  But this is not the set that I want to run.  Not to mention, I will always want to work with a small crew instead of a large crew.  I try to avoid situations where I'd need to hire a guy just to lug things around without thinking about anything.  All I have experience with at this point is independent film, where your sound guy can help you carry this thing and can give his ideas on the scene and can suggest an interesting angle or help out with location scouting, etc.  Now, maybe that doesn't make him an artist, but he's still working on a piece of art, and should care about its artistic integrity.  I don't want the vibe of "I'm the cinematographer, I'm not gonna do this other job, I'm not gonna lug this around, or help with sound..."

Quote from: MThis is great if you're a student filmmaker. Even if you are a student filmmaker making your first serious short film, you hire the best DP in town or the best Production Designer in town. They don't necessarily need to love your movie, though it helps. From my experience, they mostly just want to work.

What's the best DP in town who's not an artist who cares about the artistic integrity of what he or she is working on?  Damn right I want the best, but not in exchange for a cold attitude.  And if they don't love the movie, then I want them involved in making it better.

Quote from: M

Quote from: matt35mmIt's just that enthusiam does not equal care.  Enthusiam equals "omigosh, like, movies are so cool and I think it would be, like, interesting to work on one?"

If you pulled people off Universal City Walk and pointed a camera at them and told them they'd be on American Idol, that's the common response. You need professionals, first and foremost, who will do the job.

A lot of behind the scenes docs (i.e. Lord of the Rings) make it seem like everybody is one big creative happy family. In the end, everybody is doing a job as best as they possibly can. That's caring. Enthusiasm for the movie motivates them to do their job even better.

The only people I can think of who are truly about "This Is Our Movie, This Is Our Work of Art" are Andy Warhol and his crew of merry artists.

I'm not even talking about random people off of Universal City Walk--I'm talking about people who think that they're interested in filmmaking but are really just film fans, who have tons of enthusiam but no will to do all the non-glam things movie-making.  It's hard freakin' work, and a big committment.  That seems to fly by most people's heads, in my experience, which, granted, is not vast with regards to professionals.

I certainly believe that there was that vibe of a big happy creative family on the LOTR set.  That paragraph, as far as I can tell, proves exactly what I'm trying to say, except that to me, "enthusiasm" just has a negative connotation of empty excitement.  "Passion" is what I'm looking for over my idea of "enthusiasm."  So I want a crew who care about the movie, which helps them to do their job better, over "the best DP in town" who doesn't give a shit.  Especially in that case, since the Director/DP relationship is one of the most important on set.

And hey, what's wrong with my wanting to be like Andy Warhol and his merry band of artists?  I might not be as bi-fucking-zarre, but I would like my crew to be just as merry.  I do not in any way mean to imply that I would want my film set to be any less professional than a "real" movie set.  Perhaps my description sounded like it'd make for a sloppy film set, with a bunch of random friends just throwing in ideas.  But really, it's very organized, and at the same time, it's very organic.  It's a small crew, with very good communication.  There are no confusing politics, there are no manipulations of anybody, no behind-their-back stuff.  It's actually a very streamlined, very smooth thing to be involved in.

I take it upon myself to know every job there is on a movie set, and I'm prepping each of my crew members as well as I can, and training them myself, so that they do have knowledge of what they're doing.  With this small of a production, it works, and it works very well, and leads to a purity in the artistic endeavor that I love.  It's just this merry band of people out there making the movie that they want to make, with no one else to answer to.  What helps is having a LOT of pre-production, which we've had, so that when we get on set, we won't be messing around.

But hey, I guess I won't really know until I get there, and maybe I am just be idealistic or naîve, but I personally see nothing wrong with this.  Maybe it all depends on the specific people involved, and doesn't work in all cases--but I am so very confident in my crew that I feel very comfortable going into this production and having great vibes and a strong involvement from everyone.  We've all got a responsibility to ourselves to make a movie that we would all be proud to have been a part of, not just to show up and do our job (which most "enthusiastic" people can't even manage to do, it seems).

Size 9 again, since the post's long.

I'm not saying those who have careers making movies have all become cold automatons who have no passion for films. I'd like to think their love for films brought them to their jobs in the first place. And that's not going to die down just because it's now their work.

And I think the DP should be completely focused on his department. He shouldn't be lugging around equipment with the grips. That's just sloppy and keeps him away from what he should really be thinking about. Let him kick ass at it, and only it.

That's what I like about being involved on any production. It's like a giant machine and everybody acts as a wheel or cog in it. And they nail their alotted role, and that's the harmony I see in it. Not a communal appreciation for the script. I wouldn't want to work with a director who demands that I love his script. Yea, I like it, but first I'll get my job done. Or I don't like it, I'll still get my job done just the same. I'll do a damn good job because I like what I do. I'm not really doing this for the lovely script.

I'm just stressing that it's work, hard work. Not a crew that all adores the script they're working on. Hard, grueling work gets the movie made. So when you're making your short, focus on the work. Not how passionate you're feeling, because I don't know how long you can sustain that wonderful passion when you can't get a sound guy to properly record sound like he should.

You don't get a miracle by getting everyone into the spirit of it all, you make it happen by getting people together who can make it happen.

Quote from: MSize 9 again, since the post's long.

I'm not saying those who have careers making movies have all become cold automatons who have no passion for films. I'd like to think their love for films brought them to their jobs in the first place. And that's not going to die down just because it's now their work.

And I think the DP should be completely focused on his department. He shouldn't be lugging around equipment with the grips. That's just sloppy and keeps him away from what he should really be thinking about. Let him kick ass at it, and only it.

That's what I like about being involved on any production. It's like a giant machine and everybody acts as a wheel or cog in it. And they nail their alotted role, and that's the harmony I see in it. Not a communal appreciation for the script. I wouldn't want to work with a director who demands that I love his script. Yea, I like it, but first I'll get my job done. Or I don't like it, I'll still get my job done just the same. I'll do a damn good job because I like what I do. I'm not really doing this for the lovely script.

I'm just stressing that it's work, hard work. Not a crew that all adores the script they're working on. Hard, grueling work gets the movie made. So when you're making your short, focus on the work. Not how passionate you're feeling, because I don't know how long you can sustain that wonderful passion when you can't get a sound guy to properly record sound like he should.

You don't get a miracle by getting everyone into the spirit of it all, you make it happen by getting people together who can make it happen.

Okay, we really more or less agree on everything here, except that I, as a director, would like feedback from everybody on set with regards to the script and the movie.  Well, we differ a little bit on the first half of your post, but we really agree on the last half.

I can only give a big "AMEN" to your last sentence, especially the way it was phrased before editing (just because I believe in that more generally, and that used to be a more general statement before you changed it to more suit this subject).  I know enthusiam doesn't MEAN this, but I just see that words as the first half of your sentence, and okay... so what I'm really saying is that I want to avoid that in anybody in my crew.  I want everyone in my crew to know the second half of that sentence.

Although I need to amend that and say that it's not enough to get it done.  Filmmaking is hard, but people get it done.  That's not enough for me.  How do you make it great?  My answer is by not only getting the people that you feel can best make it great, but engaging them in not only their specific job, but also the content of the movie, because it's their movie, too.  If my sound guy thinks that this one line of dialogue is cheesy, he should tell me, and that doesn't mean that I'll change it, but I'll certainly give it a hard look-over.

If my only goal was to get the movie made, things would be much more simple.  The real difficulty (and magic) is in making the movie fantastic, and that's, to me, done by the entire cast and crew, not just the director--regarding the technical quality as well as the content.

i'm not saying that everyone has some great potential in them and i'm not saying there aren't fuck ups that can ruin a set.  i'm only saying that any idea is potentially a good idea.  so if you get any crewmember thinking he or she has worth, and can affect the film in some way, that will only work to your benefit 'cause they'll come up with good stuff on their own.  they're not waiting for you to tell them what to do, they'll come to you with suggestions and then you pick the best one.

you say that if you only need someone to move a plant you want him or her to understand that position and step to it.  fair enough, but i think if that person understood the blocking of the scene, and you let them know how important the mise en scene is (not in a cheesy way, just matter of factly) i'm sure that person is probably going to be taking his or her job very seriously, cause they don't want to be the weakest link.  then, when it comes to the next scene, they might even be thinking about how they could make what's in front of the camera look better than even you had envisioned.

i think it's easy to say "my film fucked up cause no one in my school (or wherever) took it seriously."  and your point about the life aquatic is interesting, but what messed up that film could have been a multitude of facets.  like, most importantly, the script was unbalanced.  the magic time on the set doesn't make or break the scene or film, it just gives it the best potential.  i'm telling you, at least from my experience, if every crew member is happy and excited because you bring that out in them, it will effect everything like Ebola.  the actors will like the atmosphere on the set and perform better, which ultimately makes for a better film.  it's all connected.

most of the time i want a plant moved on my set, i go move it.  if you help out every position they'll see that you can get your elbows dirty.  you'll still have time for the actors, and you should have rehearsed it by this point anyway...

now with all that said, some people are still fuck ups, but just not the majority.

-sl-

I don't know exactly who you're addressing the post to, but I generally agree with that.  Although I should say that I'd want them involved not just because I want them to feel important and that they might be contributing, but because they really are important and really can contribute.

Here's an idea for a student film --

A student returns to his dorm room, but can't go in because his roommate has a young lady sleeping over, so the student has to roam around campus all night long, and encounters all sorts of crazy stuff.  When he returns to his room at dawn, he finds his roommate and his girlfriend dead.

Quote from: soixanteHere's an idea for a student film --

A student returns to his dorm room, but can't go in because his roommate has a young lady sleeping over, so the student has to roam around campus all night long, and encounters all sorts of crazy stuff.  When he returns to his room at dawn, he finds his roommate and his girlfriend dead.

not too bad but foreshadow the death or something along those lines,  don't want that coming out of the blue.  just look at the original ending to clerks and how that wouldn't have worked.

i would set that premise in a different location if i were you, student films are often about student life.  not that it can't be good, but you'll have half the crowd rolling their eyes at the beginning of the film.  then it's twice as hard because you'll have to spend the rest of the film winning them back

-sl-