Author Topic: good movies too "proper" for you to dig  (Read 8427 times)

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Gamblour.

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« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2005, 01:49:06 PM »
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I agree, Stefen. Besides, let's say someone did say they hated Citizen Kane, but they had what they considered legitimate, filmic reasons. Even after they explained themselves, how seriously could you take them from that point on? Not very, I suspect.
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cowboykurtis

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« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2005, 02:18:53 PM »
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Quote from: deathnotronic
Quote from: pete
that is if you believe the history of film and music is linear.  it's perfectly reasonable to like phillip glass and hate beethovan.  same thing with disliking movies "back in the days".  why do filmmakers have to like citizen kane?  what does liking good movies have anything to do with making good movies?  that's a bunch of film school crap right there.  plenty of filmmakers love kane and still make shitty movies, can't the opposite happen?
not that I like kids who claim to hate citizen kane just to be cool.


But you're missing the point. All the power to them if they dislike it. I don't give a fuck. I think it seems like they're too cool to be paying respect where it's due and understanding that film could be different had this film not came out, etc. I think that's kind of bullshit.


i think the problem goes further than disliking films like Kane and Casablanca to "be cool", rather their dislike comes from impatience and  and a lack of desire to understand and appreciate the work BEFORE judging.

It's fine to dislike it, but in order to come to a valid conclusion one must fully explore the material, come to appreciate and understand the landscape, THEN form an opinion wheither or not they as a viewer like it.

The problem with many young viewers is their inability to contexualize WHEN a film was made. If one does not understand what film, as a medium and industry, was at the time of film like Kane, they can not fully judge nor discredit.

Its a matter of being lazy and uninformed.

The sad thing that I've found with many young directors (aspiring and professional), they are more concerned with agents/producers/studio execs than they are with the history of the medium they're working in.

They can raddle off box office numbers and tell you who the VP of Production is at Universal, however they've never heard of Perston Sturgess nor have any desire to see his films.

I think the idea and image of a "film director" has gotten so over-exposed that people are much more concerned about the persona that comes with directing, than they are with the actual work.[/img]
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Stefen

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« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2005, 02:24:35 PM »
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The problem with many young viewers is their inability to contexualize WHEN a film was made. If one does not understand what film, as a medium and industry, was at the time of film like Kane, they can not fully judge nor discredit.


Good point, but don't you think that very same thing may contribute to someone younger not giving an old film a chance? A reason that older movies are not seen may be due to them being old, and in this day and age we all seem to have been raised on films that rely more on visuals as oppose to storytelling. Back then I feel it was the opposite to an extent. Visual effects back in the day were pretty much non existant so everything relied on story telling. Even a film like American Beauty which doesn't have many if any visual effects will get overrated by someone younger when putting it up against citizen kane just cause they can relate better to newer films?
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cowboykurtis

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« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2005, 02:35:52 PM »
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Quote from: Stefen Posts Ghetto?
Quote
The problem with many young viewers is their inability to contexualize WHEN a film was made. If one does not understand what film, as a medium and industry, was at the time of film like Kane, they can not fully judge nor discredit.


Good point, but don't you think that very same thing may contribute to someone younger not giving an old film a chance? A reason that older movies are not seen may be due to them being old, and in this day and age we all seem to have been raised on films that rely more on visuals as oppose to storytelling. Back then I feel it was the opposite to an extent. Visual effects back in the day were pretty much non existant so everything relied on story telling. Even a film like American Beauty which doesn't have many if any visual effects will get overrated by someone younger when putting it up against citizen kane just cause they can relate better to newer films?


I definately agree.
 
I believe much of their reluctance to watch older movies comes from this bizarre mental landscape that is based off of assumption, i.e." black&white films are boring..."

However if one actually sits down with a film like Casablanca and drops their preconcieved notions, the story is so bold and universal that one has to succumb to it.

Or a film like It's A Wonderful Life - one might have this preconcieved idea of it: "Oh I know that one, it's that stupid movie about the guy running down the street screaming that's always on during Christmas..." However, if you sat the most jaded teenager in front of that film, he'd be smiling and reaching for the Kleenex - if not, I'd question his humanity...

I think many young people form opinions without having fully viewed the films. Sometimes only having seen the first 10 minutes and turning it off out of frustration and boredom that their patience has vanished.

Younger generations don't have much patience - they want to be insantly grattified, however if one is patient enough to watch such a graceful story unfold, I don't think one would have any other choice but to be swept away.

When I was younger I'd screen films for friends that tested this exact theory. A perfect example is 2001 - if I hadn't been there to keep them in their seats, they would have shut it off after the first hour - maybe sooner. However, by the end, they were blown away and continue to consider it as a favorite.

I think the main problem is lack of dicipline and patience. Which, in essence, discredits any opinion they have. If one doesn't "watch" a film they're not entitled to an opinion.
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Stefen

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« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2005, 02:50:59 PM »
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How about we blame it on MTV?
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w/o horse

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« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2005, 04:15:56 PM »
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So we can definitely say - If you don't like Citizen Kane it says more about you than it says anything about Citizen Kane.
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Gamblour.

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« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2005, 04:30:47 PM »
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Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk
I agree, Stefen. Besides, let's say someone did say they hated Citizen Kane, but they had what they considered legitimate, filmic reasons. Even after they explained themselves, how seriously could you take them from that point on? Not very, I suspect.
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w/o horse

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« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2005, 04:43:25 PM »
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That's a bit dramatic but yes, we apparently agree.  I wouldn't stop taking them seriously, I'd just take them from a different perspetive.

For example, I don't like big impersonal films.  You have to take that into consideration when I say I don't love Lawrence of Arabia, North by Northwest, etc.  If someone says to me, "I don't like Citizen Kane" I can think of them as someone clearly not interested film history, and I won't be surprised when they tell me their favorite film is Fight Club or whatever.  But perhaps I can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with them about Hal Hartley.

Different strokes, you know.
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ᾦɐļᵲʊʂ

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« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2005, 11:33:37 PM »
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Quote from: Walrus
Yeah
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Stefen

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« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2005, 11:51:30 PM »
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Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk
Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk
I agree, Stefen. Besides, let's say someone did say they hated Citizen Kane, but they had what they considered legitimate, filmic reasons. Even after they explained themselves, how seriously could you take them from that point on? Not very, I suspect.


Actually assuming they they gave good reasons I still might be able to take them seriously, it depends on what they look like though.
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Gamblour.

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« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2005, 01:16:18 AM »
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Quote from: Stefen Posts Ghetto?
Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk
Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk
I agree, Stefen. Besides, let's say someone did say they hated Citizen Kane, but they had what they considered legitimate, filmic reasons. Even after they explained themselves, how seriously could you take them from that point on? Not very, I suspect.


Actually assuming they they gave good reasons I still might be able to take them seriously, it depends on what they look like though.


If they look like this, I definitely would:
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diggler

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« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2005, 01:07:06 PM »
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I get a lot of this in my film school classes, which is one of the reasons i ditched the film theory major.  It seems most young viewers become bored with older movies, therefore dubbing them as poorly made films.  The average modern day movie doesn't hold a frame on screen for more than 3 seconds, conditioning your attention span accordingly.  after years of repeatedly viewing films made in this manner (and TV is no help), getting a younger viewer to sit through an older, more patient film, is an exhausting experience.
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« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2005, 12:06:10 AM »
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Fuck, that was a long post.
"As a matter of fact I only work with the feeling of something magical, something seemingly significant. And to keep it magical I don't want to know the story involved, I just want the hypnotic effect of it somehow seeming significant without knowing why." - Len Lye

jtm

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« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2005, 06:24:35 PM »
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regarding Citizen Cane, i've never understood why it's considered the greatest movie of all time.  sure it's definitely a great movie, but i think people who say it's "the best" are just basing that on it's tremendous influence towards film and film technique.  many people have taken what Orson Wells's started, and improved upon it ten fold..... same deal with The Beatles.

Stefen

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« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2005, 06:26:04 PM »
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The fuck do you know?
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