Author Topic: Westerns nowadays  (Read 4252 times)

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Jeremy Blackman

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2003, 01:10:33 PM »
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What about The Way of the Gun?
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SoNowThen

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2003, 01:13:47 PM »
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"a western with cell phones"
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

classical gas

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2003, 04:44:14 PM »
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Wasn't Tarantino going to make a western before deciding on Kill Bill?  Or am I mistaken?  I thought Kill Bill was supposed to be a western with Warren Beatty.  Probably wrong though.  I know he was going to make a war film.  I don't think he would make a very good war film, but I think he could make a very fun Western.  But I hope that all of his movies aren't just genre pictures, if you know what i mean.  Everything can fit in a genre, but....i don't feel like finishing that sentence.

kotte

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2003, 04:50:35 PM »
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Quote from: classical gas
Wasn't Tarantino going to make a western before deciding on Kill Bill?  Or am I mistaken?  I thought Kill Bill was supposed to be a western with Warren Beatty.  Probably wrong though.  I know he was going to make a war film.  I don't think he would make a very good war film, but I think he could make a very fun Western.  But I hope that all of his movies aren't just genre pictures, if you know what i mean.  Everything can fit in a genre, but....i don't feel like finishing that sentence.


He actually has three WWII scripts...don't know if he'll ever do anything with 'em.

Inglorious Bastard sounded pretty good...but but.

Gold Trumpet

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2003, 11:20:10 PM »
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Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
What about The Way of the Gun?


I don't think so. The setting is modern, but I think the purpose, past the premise, is just for extensive and very unrealistic shoot outs. A spin on some genre, likely. How do you see it?

Ghostboy

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2003, 02:27:21 AM »
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Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Thats not a good argument to pick with me here. I'd see the Coen brothers making a very fluff attempt at a western. Part of the movie would be dramatic in the convential sense, but most of the spirit would be disbelieving in the story and just really there to pick away at the cliches of the genre. Honestly, I'd like to see David Gordon Green above all make an attempt at doing a western. With Tarantino and PTA, I'd prolly see a lot of homage to older westerns which may put the film under the category of most westerns today.


David Gordon Green has already completed The Undertow, which has been alternately described as a Western and a Southern Gothic tale...probably will be a mixture of the two.

The Coen Brothers' adaptation of 'To The White Sea' would have had much of the feel of a western, except that it's set in the East (Japan, to be exact). Seeing as how the script was almost entirely silent, they would have had to take a different approach than usual (plus, it's a humor-free story). Of course, they probably won't ever get to make it.

I plan on revitalizing the genre -- or at least taking a new approach to it -- if I ever get to adapt Cormac McCarthy's The Crossing, which would be one of my dream projects.

Find Your Magali

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2003, 09:37:39 AM »
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This is a fascinating thread. I'd agree with those who say the Western is essentially spent and dead as a genre. Unforgiven might have been the final fresh twist we had, using a genre western to make modern-day statements about violence. ...

... I think the war film is still alive and well, however, and that might, for the moment, have superceded westerns and mob films as the genre in which we can tell an "old story" but still layer it with truths about the world we live in now. ... In some respects, elements of Saving Private Ryan and the superior Band of Brothers have opened the door to fresh, raw and 21st century takes on WWII films.

Where I think we really need to go with war films, however, (and it may be too soon) is the Middle East. We need these films to speak honestly about wars in the desert; wars sparked by a religious fervor that we can't even begin to comprehend; wars against terrorists and not "traditional armies"; and wars that some would say are just as dubious as the one in Vietnam. ... (Slight tangent: I was watching "Grave of the Fireflies" recently and wondering what the Iraqi version of that movie would be. Would we be moved or pushed to a higher empathy for the situation and our enemy if we saw a film about two Iraqi children who are orphaned by the U.S. bombing, get lost and forgotten in the chaos and rubble, and ultimately succumb to malnutrition? Would this be considered an unpatriotic film?)

Final word: More and more every year, I think "Three Kings" is going to be thought of as a brilliant film that was ahead of its time and helped open the door for a new subset genre about modern warfare. ("Blackhawk Down," too, I know, but while that's a more technically brilliant piece, I think "Three Kings" is a more thoughtful movie with far more resonance.)

That's all.

Gold Trumpet

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Westerns nowadays
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2003, 09:42:20 AM »
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Quote from: Ghostboy
David Gordon Green has already completed The Undertow, which has been alternately described as a Western and a Southern Gothic tale...probably will be a mixture of the two.


That could be interesting. Everyone seems able to mix genres and styles in approach to the western these days, but I hope DGG really does dig in his story with this film.

SHAFTR

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Re: Westerns nowadays
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2005, 03:02:39 AM »
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I recently watched Dances with Wolves.  Is it just me, or is this a forgotten film of the 90s?   It was nominated for so many oscars and won Best Picture, yet people just remember as the film Goodfellas lost to (and I actually think it is better than Goodfellas).  An incredible debut film, an incredible western, and yet no one ever talks about this.  I know Costner's career has been less than spectacular since this film, but I don't think we should forget how good Dances with Wolves is.  I would put it among my top Westerns and maybe top films of the 90s. 

NOTE:  I watched the Director's Cut.
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Weak2ndAct

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Re: Westerns nowadays
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2005, 03:17:30 AM »
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Costner owes a HUGE debt for Kevin Reynolds on that flick.  The story goes that Costner asked for help/advice on some of the bigger sequences.  KR came in, helped, started directing 2nd unit, then basically directed.

Gold Trumpet

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Re: Westerns nowadays
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2005, 03:25:50 AM »
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Costner owes a HUGE debt for Kevin Reynolds on that flick. The story goes that Costner asked for help/advice on some of the bigger sequences. KR came in, helped, started directing 2nd unit, then basically directed.

Then Sam Fuller claims Costner owes him a lot of credit. In his auto-biography, Fuller goes into detail how much Dances With Wolves borrows from his film, Run of the Arrow. Fuller laughed though and called it a "homage". What you say, 2ndact, could be true. Its just a heavy thing to accept so easily.

On bringing back Dances With Wolves to comment, I'm happy someone is. I've always said Dances With Wolves was the superior film to Goodfellas. Costner does well to bring together the scope of John Ford to the intimacy of a personal film. In the barrage of culture cross films to be made in America in the last 20 years, (The Last Samurai, Glory) Dances With Wolves is most believable.

Also, I own the extended edition DVD. Amazing how long that film is and how it never gets boring. I watched it once planning a two period showing and got to the end so easily I was hoping for more.

SHAFTR

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Re: Westerns nowadays
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2005, 12:29:05 PM »
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Also, I own the extended edition DVD. Amazing how long that film is and how it never gets boring. I watched it once planning a two period showing and got to the end so easily I was hoping for more.

Agreed.  As I was watching it, I was trying to think of 40 minutes that could be trimmed off and I just didn't notice any fluff.  I did see the Theatrical cut once, but I was very young.  I think I'll go watch the 80 minute documentary on the disc now.
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