XIXAX Film Forum

Film Discussion => The Small Screen => Topic started by: Punch on March 19, 2014, 03:11:44 PM

Title: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Punch on March 19, 2014, 03:11:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jFU0r0xG_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qij9ntzglGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYyYvjghmvs

A drifter named Lorne Malvo (Billy Bob Thornton) arrives in small-town Minnesota and influences the population with his malice and violence, including put-upon insurance salesman Lester Nygaard (Martin Freeman).

10 episodes and that's it.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Punch on April 16, 2014, 01:33:03 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C96AfevLkQ4

Inside Fargo: Welcome to Fargo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQiX9xHxHcg

The First Seven Minutes of the New FX Series
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: jenkins on April 16, 2014, 01:43:54 PM
cine data: my frequent codirector/editor was the editor for these fargo promotionals. fwiw
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on April 18, 2014, 12:02:35 AM
apparently television is getting smarter. i dont know if it started with the wire or breaking bad, but the latter sure made it more obvious. true detective, now this? jesus christ almighty. the coens vibe is all over this obvsly, but also tarantino. and definitely vince gilligan. the acting is flawless, the tone is dark and hilarious and methodic, the dialogue is crazy awesome in a surreal and beautiful way. everything works. correct me if im wrong. BEGIN
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: squints on April 19, 2014, 04:09:13 PM
This is fantastic. Everyone here should be watching.

A tribute to one of my favorite movies ever, but never a "ripoff." Truly engaging and I can't fuckin' wait for the next episode.

Billy Bob Thornton kills.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Reelist on April 19, 2014, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: squints link=topic=12869.msg332789#msg332789 date
Billy Bob Thornton kills.

SPOILER ALERT!!
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on April 21, 2014, 05:21:24 PM
Yes, it was a very promising start. It left me wondering what the hell will happen next, like in Breaking Bad there was this sense of writers cornering themselves to impossible situations.

Billy Bob and Martin Freeman are exceptional. It really is to Thornton's credit than by the last scene in this episode, you feel you know him enough to hope for the worst in some dark humored horrible twist.

Let's see how they spin this, I can't wait.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on April 30, 2014, 04:47:03 AM
spoilers but you need to be on this shit immediately
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so they are incredibly inspired by brba, as is most evident in their past three openings,
which they execute flawlessly. such beauty and precision in these shots.

thorntons scene with dennis reynolds is pretty hilarious, but its more satisfying seeing his
character be continuously bold in a really creepy manner. i hope it doesnt get old by ep 5.

grimley pulling over billybob was an amazing scene in ep 1, and now it just started to be
kind of crumbling apart. the stuff near the end definitely makes up for it, but the scene in
the bathroom near the beginning is ridiculously clumsy.
the flashbacks are annoying, but necessary i guess.

i love the quirkiness of the characters, their personalities man. jesus. this town is so
coens, almost jeunet at times. the whole scene with hess' wife is amazing. she is an incredible actress and insanely sexy. the brothers haven't gotten on my nerves yet surprisingly, maybe because they keep injuring
each other in incredibly realistic scenes. the drug dealer scene was the first shit i seriously havent liked in the show, but its cartoonish enough for me to let it slide.

molly is a wonderful character, and in my opinion, much deeper than frances mcdormands'.
anyone disagree? the spider sex story was fucking awesome. try to unthink that idea.
 this show is loading up on iconic and memorable moments.

as i said, thorntons near superhuman boldness and shadiness are way too fucking cool, man. i dont know what it is.
the fact that lester doesnt know how to take care of a wound makes zero sense. i dont know how much longer i can consider that NOT a strike against this show. the scene with lester and the two guys from fargo was kind of painful. why would adult HW be signing to lester? that  just makes him look stupid, not intimidating, which he totally was before.

the fake drop from molly was pretty obvious, but still very impressive on her end.
and the whole shit between her and grimley was really intense, in a slow excruciating way.

anyway, that's enough. easily best thing on tv.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Punch on May 02, 2014, 08:41:45 AM
i agree with you molly definitely has more depth than marge, only thing felt off about this ep is the sequence with stavros when he finds his dog outside the shots look odd & the editing bad there the ending was amazing though thornton is great, do you have any empathy for lester? i dont  but it feels like the writers want you to
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on May 03, 2014, 01:10:38 AM
I think "empathy" is not something you should seek as a writer. More like curiosity, or some sort of interest, which is what Lester causes me. I very rarely feel empathy towards fictional characters, maybe for a couple of moments, but that happens with anyone. I don't like Lester at all but I'm curious to see how he deals with this situation, what comes out of him.

I would prefer the show would not have such mirrored references to the film (that scene at the diner was like the mike scene in the film), mainly because it puts us in a position to consider wether one character is more interesting than it's counterpart in the other work. that said:

SPOILERS FOR BOTH FILM AND SHOW

What I liked about Frances McDormand in Fargo is that there seemed to be no way than this character was going to solve this crime. And there was the feeling she was even kind of dumb. So the expectation was, she will lose it, she will toughen up to deal with these evil fuckers. But she just focused on the case and managed to make it work. In the show, Molly is way too smart from the first moment. It's like she's the only smart cop in the world, and that makes it a little less interesting, because you know she will be the one who figures it all out.
Hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 03, 2014, 11:18:11 AM
Watched the first episode and really liked it.

Let me get my complaints out of the way first, though. As an actual Minnesotan, I was distracted by the garish Minnesotan accents, which are so exaggerated that I'm not sure how much of it is meant as satire. (The scene with the prostitute saying "ohh yaaa" is surely satire, right?) I'm from the Twin Cities area but have traveled all over the state, and there are turns of phrase that I have legitimately never heard before. I have maybe come close to hearing accents that thick a handful of times in my life, but these days I think you would have to venture into the farest reaches of northern Minnesota.

I've actually spent some time in Bemidji. It's near the Chippewa National Forest, which is amazing and I used to go there every summer. My friend also lived in Bemidji for college. It's kind of a tourist/college town. It doesn't necessarily resemble what I've seen in the show so far, but that could change. It will be really interesting to see how they portray Duluth, because it's kind of a big city with a massive downtown and legitimately feels like Minneapolis when you're there. I was there in the fall so it's fresh in my mind.

Two dead giveaways that they're getting things wrong:

(1) Accents are the same from generation to generation. I defy them to find any living 40-year old in Bemidji who has an accent like Martin Freeman's, or his brother's, or his wife's. And the bully's kids would definitely not sound like that.

(2) "I heard it's gonna be negative ten." No one, and I mean no one, says "negative ten." It's "ten below" or "ten above." If you're going to get anything right, for God's sake get this one thing right.

Moving on...

There were way too many cartoon characters in the first episode, the bully and the wife in particular. But since they're now very much dead, maybe that won't be a problem. Still was a ham-handed setup for sure.

This is already my favorite Martin Freeman role. He was pretty much created for it. I love the way his blackout rage is shown... or not shown. We never see him punch his brother. Also with his wife... it's like he blacks out for a moment, and suddenly the hammer is sunk in her forehead. Great stuff.

Paint cans were so on the nose... I might have groaned. Less of that, please.

It's impressive that they managed to get to ice fishing in the first episode, but that's okay. I hope they return to it, because ice fishing is legitimately ridiculous.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on May 21, 2014, 07:06:16 PM
if you guys have not seen last nights episode and are not blown away by everything it contained, yall are no longer my friends. this is the best show i've ever fucking seen. devastating. they put a BrBa season finale into the end of EVERY episode.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on May 21, 2014, 07:32:12 PM
MILD TO MEDIUM SPOILERS

Axolotl [21|May 11:00 AM]:   fargo goddamn what the fuck
Axolotl [21|May 11:01 AM]:   was 03 to shocked to gush here after the episode or something
Axolotl [21|May 11:01 AM]:   too
Axolotl [21|May 11:06 AM]:   this episode was the magnoliest thing I've seen on television, for a number of reasons
Axolotl [21|May 11:08 AM]:   I was not as big a fan as 03, but man this one reached Breaking Bad levels of entertainment, and way surpassed it in brutality to the point it seems too brutal, even mean
And I'm not saying that as a big fan of breaking bad, which I'm not, but they're both operating in the same sphere

which i agree with wholeheartedly but then......

Axolotl [21|May 11:20 AM]:   you know, ignore my comment about this being too brutal. It's adequately brutal.
Axolotl [21|May 11:21 AM]:   on further reflection I don't think this episode was as great as I thought it was 10 minutes ago

boo...
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 22, 2014, 12:45:15 AM
SPOILERS

Wow, that was total explicit homage, right? Bold choice. Even some of the same camerawork going on. Are people going to be talking about this? Was it just the two moments, fishstorm and hospital smile, or was there more?

Anyway, great episode as usual. The "suicide by cop" scene was indeed brutal, but I thought the horror of it was beautifully executed.

Molly has to be alive. I just can't accept her being unceremoniously offed like that.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Garam on May 22, 2014, 06:02:48 AM
It's a nice time waster, but it has too little of its own personality to be a classic. It feels like a cover album. It's nowhere near the level of Sopranos/Wire/BrBa for me. Billy Bob is great though.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on May 28, 2014, 07:27:03 AM
this show is the opposite of a time waster.
when more people than just me have seen the last episode, i'll post more. yall need to be on this insanely genius shit
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 29, 2014, 01:01:14 PM
SPOILERS

03, I completely agree about the title card. I played that back like three times... it's masterful what they do with the music and sound there. These are the little things that make this stuff for me.

Lester has certainly become a compelling character. The moment that made him for me was actually last week, when he was in his brother's gun safe and stopped when he saw the picture of his brother's family. Of course we're so used to the cliche that we expect it to tug at his heartstrings; instead his reaction was oh, how delightful, I can destroy them too! I'd like to see what the show does in its remaining episodes comparing Lester's evil to Malvo's evil.

The office massacre sequence was virtuosic. Loved it. Curious about agents Key and Peele though. Did Malvo execute some kind of time jump (which is honestly possible at this point), or did the agents actually sit by while they heard the gunfire? Are they incompetent, or covering something up, or maybe just non-confrontational?

I should have mentioned this before, but I think Keith Carradine is nailing the Bemidji accent, and probably a certain Minnesotan archetype too. He knows what he's doing.

Although I never want to see Martin Freeman having sex ever again, that scene was quite powerful.

Theory time. I'd like to see the Rabbi brought back into the fold, because something tells me Malvo represents something from Jewish myth, like some kind of demon or trickster god.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Mel on May 29, 2014, 06:38:24 PM
Spoilers

First of all, I had a huge deja vu sensation, when watching Thornton in the first episode. There was something specific about mannerisms of a character that was very familiar. The best connection I got so far is Ben Kingsley in "Sexy Beast". It did wear off later on. Great performance from Bob.

First things I didn't like. Homages to the film version of "Fargo" are a bit tiring. Problem is that the rest is so good, that the scene copying gimmick is unnecessary. I feel that series would be better off doing own thing.

The second thing is a cinematography of some scenes. Night or dark scenes look very average. "Justified" got good at it and I yet have to see something as good as "Shadow Line". Same applies to whiteout scene - the shootout was great in itself, but that snow... I know that it is tricky to do well, but it screamed CGI. I can accept it for two reasons: TV limitations and the realm in which series takes place.

Speaking of which, I don't have problem with cartoonish characters (drug dealer etc). For lack of a better comparison, Minnesota in the series is something like what Gotham City is to New York. Some events have supernatural properties, mysticism was mixed in also. Some other influences are visible like "Twin Peaks", which is complement.

So far "Fargo" the series is far better than I expected. It managed to crawl out of a trap - which would be making a direct remake, while stretching the story. In a way it feels like a good British criminal series, where story doesn't unroll only forward by aiding new characters, but circles around (going back to some arcs) and expands like a bubble. Does that makes sense?

As weird as it sounds my favorite arc is the thing between Molly and Grimly. In series full of antagonists, it is good to have a positive anchor. I'm waiting for clash between Lester and Malvo, since Lorne will figure out sooner than later, who shared the information about his location.

What do you make out of Lester? It is easy to compare it to "Breaking Bad", but morality in show is completely different. In BB actions have consequences, in "Fargo" there are no saints in the animal kingdom (so far). Lester doesn't seem to struggle with his choices, he is corrupted almost by flipping a switch.

I'm not sure if Malvo is an supernatural entity. There is a lot of weirdness going on, but do we need a devil to do the evil? "It is all in human nature" is a bleaker and scarier answer in my opinion. Still I wouldn't be surprised by "Barton Fink" version, since Malvo-Lester relationship is somehow similar.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on May 29, 2014, 06:58:03 PM
I just want to say that I've watched the pilot. It was great. Great is an overused word so let me repeat myself. It was great. Like really great. It had a calm rhythm which never felt cold. I enjoy the movie Fargo, but it's frozen. The variations here give a better story? Maybe?

To talk about Breaking Bad isn't wrong or an hollow analogy. The episode wasn't scared to have long scenes. To create tension with time. The violence can be horrifying or goofy.

Oh, and Rust Cohle is the Yellow King in Fargo, if you understand what I mean.

I'm in.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on May 29, 2014, 07:08:02 PM
i don't understand but i want to. do you mean that lorne malvo is the yellow king?
great reviews both mel and jeremy. glad you guys are getting on board, because i'm pretty obsessed. i'm going to post about episode seven a little later on after my billionth rewatch
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on May 29, 2014, 07:17:23 PM
SPOILERS

Yes, he has a lot of gravity when he's doing an apocalyptic monologue (the one he give to the cop that he doesn't kill) and he's the fucking devil. He's peacefully watching the world burn.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on May 30, 2014, 07:58:00 AM
SPOILERS EPISODE 2

Why Lester doesn't say to the police that Sam Hess hit him in the face and that he talked about him to someone at the hospital? It could happen. It's nothing. The man decided alone to kill Sam Hess. Maybe he doesn't remember correctly his face. Maybe they never find Lorne. There is a risk but his silence is suspicious.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on May 30, 2014, 03:01:48 PM
spoilers episode 7:

i hope you guys aren't getting tired of my bullet point reviews, because i'm not as eloquent as yall.

- as jb mentioned, i think i had an orgasm when i saw the opening the first time. chaz saying 'blumpkin' on tv? haha. gordo's face and reaction when the gun drops "..uh...". and then lester in the interrogation room? holy jesus. was that not directly inspired by walter whites confession tape? and then i literally stood up in my chair for boom...boom.... LESTER! LESTERR! and then silence LESTEEEERR and black. gave me fucking butterflies man.

- alison tolman is a brilliant actress. her face, her voice, her mood in the all the hospital scenes, she's flawless and gentle. and we're all glad she's not dead, even though apparently everyone except me assumed that she was alive. i had no idea.

- was malvo's boss, the guy from rundle realty sitting at the chinese joint table with everyone else in fargo in the last episode? hmm

- office massacre was truly masterful. i have the same questions as jb about the agents not hearing the gunfire. but i think this relates to the other point of malvo being borderline supernatural. he kidnaps people on camera, he carries huge guns in public, he doesn't even mind putting his real name down on a hotel registry, and takes the wardens glasses without him even knowing. so i don't think it's a stretch that he's guided by some sort of dark force.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Mel on May 30, 2014, 05:45:07 PM
Spoilers

i hope you guys aren't getting tired of my bullet point reviews, because i'm not as eloquent as yall.

Not at all.

- was malvo's boss, the guy from rundle realty sitting at the chinese joint table with everyone else in fargo in the last episode? hmm

I don't think so - some bold heads there, but I didn't spot him.

but i think this relates to the other point of malvo being borderline supernatural. he kidnaps people on camera, he carries huge guns in public, he doesn't even mind putting his real name down on a hotel registry, and takes the wardens glasses without him even knowing. so i don't think it's a stretch that he's guided by some sort of dark force.

He seems similar to Anton in "No Country for Old Men". On one hand he can be hurt - a bashed head or a self inflicted knife wound, on the other he seems able to vanish and do other weird stuff. I'm not sure if he is supernatural, but he likes to be perceived as such: playing a god by recreating plagues for Stavros. There is no coin tossing, but the chance plays a big role in series: accidental meeting with Lester, a bag of cash found by Stavros etc. It can be argued that Lester did sign a contract with the devil in that meeting, but that is side note.

By the way, "Fargo" fits basic cable pretty well - lack of swearing enriches a world, not the other way.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 30, 2014, 06:21:13 PM
SPOILERS

Not that it matters exactly, but I don't think Malvo needs to be literally supernatural. He just seems to be representative of a particular force of evil.

Why Lester doesn't say to the police that Sam Hess hit him in the face and that he talked about him to someone at the hospital? It could happen. It's nothing. The man decided alone to kill Sam Hess.

It's severely unlikely that a motiveless stranger would volunteer to kill someone. Police would never believe it.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on May 30, 2014, 06:35:33 PM
SPOILERS* by default kind of at this point:

that's exactly what i meant, jeremy. he's a borderline entity similar to anton. he's like a regular guy who learned to take evil and use it to his advantage and became accustomed to it through his years. now he's a seasoned human demon. he's seen everything and he's incredibly intelligent and knowledgable to the point where he seems to know exactly what's going to happen next, but STILL human.  another item to add to his weird luck: i just noticed that in the office massacre you hear 'freeze shitbird! click click aw shit!' how in the fuck did his gun just happen to jam?!!? because malvo.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 30, 2014, 06:54:12 PM
another item to add to his weird luck: i just noticed that in the office massacre you hear 'freeze shitbird! click click aw shit!' how in the fuck did his gun just happen to jam?!!? because malvo.

Good call. I initially rolled my eyes at that, but it might be a tip off.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on June 02, 2014, 12:14:11 PM
those last two episodes were really something, the tone is getting really dark and depressing, but thankfully funny too.
that initial sequence with the fishes made me laugh out loud, that whole episode was just brilliant, even though I had small problems with the plausibility of everything that happened, the payoffs were strong enough to let it slide.

martin freeman the standout at this point. that awesome moment when he decides he can be even more evil and his satisfaction with all of that is conveyed purely with facial expressions and looks. really smart, effective and precise performance.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Mel on June 04, 2014, 08:09:42 AM
Spoilers 1x08

"One year later" - that was huge surprise. We had some flashbacks with Stavros, but I didn't expect a time jump so late in the season.

Lots of matching cuts, some nice transitions. Not sure if it is enough for me to like this episode. Very disjointed episode (arc wise), maybe weakest so far in the series.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 04, 2014, 03:02:06 PM
MILD SPOILERS
-
i wasn't too disappointed but i can definitely see how others would be.
overall a good episode, but a little too much talking, too much molly and gus and not enough malvo. barely any actually.
the time jump was definitely distracting but it makes me excited. this is a set up for a perfect 'you may think you're done with the past' kind of scenario, lester is so happy thinking that he's out of the woods completely. i don't think show can end with anything other than complete chaos and disaster.
END spoilers
-


but i made this post for a different reason. i have recently been studying the cleverness of the episode titles.
they are all named after classic paradoxical parables. some of you may know all of them, most of you probaly know some of them.

what i would like from you guys is some discussion and dissection of this idea, and how they correlate to the shows content. i've laid them out plainly for ease.

The Crocodiles Dillemma:
The premise states that a crocodile, who has stolen a child, promises the father that his son will be returned if and only if he can correctly predict whether or not the crocodile will return the child. The transaction is logically smooth (but unpredictable) if the father guesses that the child will be returned, but a dilemma arises for the crocodile if he guesses that the child will not be returned. In the case that the crocodile decides to keep the child, he violates his terms: the father's prediction has been validated, and the child should be returned. However, in the case that the crocodile decides to give back the child, he still violates his terms, even if this decision is based on the previous result: the father's prediction has been falsified, and the child should not be returned. The question of what the crocodile should do is therefore paradoxical, and there is no justifiable solution.
--
The Rooster Prince:
In this story, a prince goes insane and believes that he is a rooster (or turkey.) He takes off his clothes, sits naked under the table, and pecks at his food on the floor. The king and queen are horrified that the heir to the throne is acting this way. They call in various sages and healers to try and convince the prince to act human again, but to no avail. Then a new wise man comes to the palace and claims he can cure the prince. He takes off his clothes and sits naked under the table with him, claiming to be a rooster, too. Gradually the prince comes to accept him as a friend. The sage then tells the prince that a rooster can wear clothes, eat at the table, etc. The Rooster Prince accepts this idea and, step-by-step, begins to act normally, until he is completely cured.
--
A Muddy Road:
Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.
Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.
"Come on, girl," said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.
Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"
"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"
--
Eating the Blame:
Circumstances arose one day which delayed preparation of the dinner of a Soto Zen master, Fugai, and his followers. In haste the cook went to the garden with his curved knife and cut off the tops of green vegetables, chopped them together, and made soup, unaware that in his haste he had included a part of a snake in the vegetables.
The followers of Fugai thought they had never tasted such great soup. But when the master himself found the snake's head in his bowl, he summoned the cook. "What is this?" he demanded, holding up the head of the snake.
"Oh, thank you, master," replied the cook, taking the morsel and eating it quickly
--
The Six Ungraspables:
A monk once asked Ummon, "What is the Dharma Kaya?" Ummon answered him with "The Six Ungraspables." (The Graspables are the five senses and the mind.)
--
Buridans Ass:
an illustration of a paradox in philosophy in the conception of free will.
It refers to a hypothetical situation wherein an ass that is equally hungry and thirsty is placed precisely midway between a stack of hay and a pail of water. Since the paradox assumes the ass will always go to whichever is closer, it will die of both hunger and thirst since it cannot make any rational decision to choose one over the other.[1] The paradox is named after the 14th century French philosopher Jean Buridan, whose philosophy of moral determinism it satirizes. A common variant of the paradox substitutes two identical piles of hay for the hay and water; the ass, unable to choose between the two, dies of hunger.
--
Who Shaves the Barber:
Suppose there is a town with just one barber, who is male. In this town, every man keeps himself clean-shaven, and he does so by doing exactly one of two things:
    shaving himself; or
    going to the barber.
Another way to state this is that "The barber is a man in town who shaves all those, and only those, men in town who do not shave themselves." From this, asking the question "Who shaves the barber?" results in a paradox because according to the statement above, he can either shave himself, or go to the barber (which happens to be himself). However, neither of these possibilities are valid: they both result in the barber shaving himself, but he cannot do this because he shaves only those men "who do not shave themselves".
--
The Heap:
The sorites paradox sometimes translated as the paradox of the heap because in Ancient Greek: sōritēs means "heap") is a paradox that arises from vague predicates. A typical formulation involves a heap of sand, from which grains are individually removed. Under the assumption that removing a single grain does not turn a heap into a non-heap, the paradox is to consider what happens when the process is repeated enough times: is a single remaining grain still a heap? (Or are even no grains at all a heap?) If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-heap?
--
A Fox, A Rabbit, and A Cabbage:
 A man has a fox, a rabbit and a cabbage, and he wants to get across the river but his boat can only carry two items at a time. The man being one item and a fox, rabbit or cabbage being the second. If left along the fox will kill the rabbit, and the rabbit will eat the cabbage. How can the man get all three items across the river without losing any of them?
The man can only take himself and one other item.
--
Morton's Fork:
An example of Morton's Fork occurs in the Poirot novel Death in the Clouds, in which Poirot sets a trap for the murderer by asking him to dress in disguise as a blackmailer. When the suspect does so – with a hapless lack of skill – Poirot reasons this was because the murderer was trying to hide the fact that he is actually highly adept at changing his appearance. Yet if the suspect had indeed proved his skill at disguise when asked (rather than dress up with "a false moustache that cries out to heaven, and those ridiculous eyebrows"), it would have alluded equally to his guilt.
--

ok! so the one i'm having the most trouble finding literature on is 'the six ungraspables' so if anyone can help me with that, please do.
the most obvious one is last night's episode in which the agent LITERALLY dictates the concept of 'The Heap'. but before i get into any more speculation on the other episodes, i wanna hear you guys thoughts!
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 05, 2014, 12:28:47 AM
SPOILERS

A quiet episode for sure, but it would be silly to judge it by itself. Still loved it. Brutal cliffhangers delivered gently are maddening. I was dreading the episode ending.

Good stuff, 03. And I think this is your answer on The Six Ungraspables, from the AV Club review (http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/fargo-six-ungraspables-204626): "The title is a reference to a Zen koan, referring to the five senses and the mind."

I had the time jump spoiled for me by this AV Club article (http://www.avclub.com/article/one-year-later-12-time-jumps-changed-everything-205260) literally 30 min before I watched the episode. BSG deservedly having the #1 spot enticed me, so I scrolled down and came upon this: "12. Fargo (2014) [WARNING: Plot points from last night’s episode of Fargo revealed below.]" Oh, thanks for that. I like how you subverted the concept of the spoiler warning there and just made it a spoiler instead. Good job.

Two weeks, even one week I understand, but to go around spoiling an episode from last night is a bit tactless. It obviously changed my viewing experience to be anticipating a freaking time jump. Why don't people understand spoilers?
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: samsong on June 05, 2014, 09:31:02 AM
tl;dr (did skim though) - is everyone praising this show for rehashing breaking bad tropes?  i caught up on the show based on word of mouth from friends and what seems like enthusiastic enjoyment from people here, and i have to say i don't really get it.  it's entertaining enough but it's pretty insane to me how derivative it is.  it even plays like some sort of quasi sequel where this is saul's new life and it turns out to be some weird limbo where life is more or less the same as what it was on the last show, but with snow.  it'd be quicker to list how the lester arc isn't like walter white's, random comedians fill small supporting roles, high brow episode titles... they did up the count on retarded sons to two on this one.  the references to coen bros movies are abundant and all stupid/lazy.  BILLY BOB IS ANTON.  right down to the bad haircut.  just about everything he does is lifted from no country from old men ie the choke out scene in the hospital restroom, the shootout where we just hear the action from the outside, giving shopkeeps a hard time with weird lines of questions, etc.  then there are the plagiarized bits from a serious man - biblical allusion, a parable told by a jew wherein the characters voice carries through into the enactments of the story.  constant little visual nods that are purely superficial, indicative of how shallow an homage to the coens this thing really is.  then there's the frances mcdormand surrogate who acts as the assurance that homeland fans will be tuning in.  (showtime: where dramatic irony happens.  actually i have no idea how valid this is as homeland is the only showtime show i've ever watched...)

not trying to be contrarian here, just calling this one like i see it.   i think the show's way closer to "nice time waster" than it is "insanely genius shit". 
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 05, 2014, 09:34:00 AM
and i thought we were friends
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 05, 2014, 11:05:06 AM
Malvo has some things in common with Anton for sure, but he's definitely his own character. Anton has a singular focus, but Malvo, by stark contrast, is a trickster figure who enjoys taking his time. Experimenting. Taking pleasure in messing with people.

I read your sentence about Homeland several times and am still not sure what you're talking about there. I hope you're not actually comparing her to Carrie.

I think you're getting hung up on superficial similarities. You're even comparing the sheriff to Saul? Because why? Because they're played by the same actor? Beyond that you didn't tell us why. I don't know how to help you.

they did up the count on retarded sons to two on this one.

Nice.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: cine on June 05, 2014, 11:13:09 AM
Malvo has some things in common with Anton for sure, but he's definitely his own character. Anton is an unstoppable force of evil with singular focus, but Malvo, by stark contrast, is a trickster figure who enjoys taking his time. Experimenting. Taking pleasure in messing with people.

I read your sentence about Homeland several times and am still not sure what you're talking about there. I hope you're not actually comparing her to Carrie.

I think you're getting hung up on superficial similarities. You're even comparing the sheriff to Saul? Because why? Because they're played by the same actor? Beyond that you didn't tell us why. I don't know how to help you.

yeah, this.

it's my favourite show right now and when i watch, i never ever think of Breaking Bad, nor do i have any reason to.

i think the show's way closer to "nice time waster" than it is "insanely genius shit". 

those are weird extremes. "something to pass the time" and "genius." why can't a show just have a great story and do a really terrific job telling it? because that's Fargo, and its entertaining as fuck.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Mel on June 05, 2014, 11:19:26 AM
not trying to be contrarian here, just calling this one like i see it.   i think the show's way closer to "nice time waster" than it is "insanely genius shit".

I mostly agree on general feeling, but there is a lot of nitpicking. It is hardly surprising that "Fargo" series is Coen-heavy, honest questions what did you expect? So I'll start nitpicking on my own.

Quote
it even plays like some sort of quasi sequel where this is saul's new life and it turns out to be some weird limbo where life is more or less the same as what it was on the last show, but with snow.

Quoting yourself is a bad habit, but I don't like to repeat myself:

"What do you make out of Lester? It is easy to compare it to "Breaking Bad", but morality in show is completely different. In BB actions have consequences, in "Fargo" there are no saints in the animal kingdom (so far). Lester doesn't seem to struggle with his choices, he is corrupted almost by flipping a switch."

random comedians fill small supporting roles

Other shows did better in that regard than "Breaking Bad" in my opinion - Patton Oswalt in "Justified anyone? Comic relief, guest appearances - those are integral parts of structure of old TV.

high brow episode titles...

What is original about this? Sorkin did, Milch did... more a question who didn't?

the choke out scene in the hospital restroom

For me it is straight from interviews with Richard Kuklinski. Scene from film adaptation of his story (about 1:20):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJIXOx2-GZ8

the shootout where we just hear the action from the outside

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMDWMEduAY4

giving shopkeeps a hard time with weird lines of questions, etc.  then there are the plagiarized bits from a serious man - biblical allusion, a parable told by a jew wherein the characters voice carries through into the enactments of the story.

Generics again. I mentioned two writers earlier that probably used bible references more often than anyone else on TV... one even created series which could be perceived as a second coming of Jesus.

In a way I share your feelings about "Fargo", for me it is like Tarantino referencing Coens, but in the end it premise of the show. It is great? I don't think so, since it is very unlikely that show will go beyond what is offered initially. Yet it is solid craft and I'm guilty of enjoying it.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: samsong on June 05, 2014, 11:58:59 AM
the two extremes were just culled from earlier posts, made into an arbitrary gamut.  my hang ups are with the superficial elements because i really do think that's all there is to the show.  it doesn't go much deeper than that when i watch it.  that's my experience with it.

calling the sheriff saul was facetious, and yes, entirely because it's bob odenkirk.  and yes bringing up homeland was to suggest that her being a female law enforcement agent who feels there's a different story than the one everyone else is buying is like carrie, again a reductive, jokey parallel meant to illustrate how derivative the show is.  and yes, i understand that a lot of these archetypes exist outside out these shows, i just found it convenient that they all exist in the most popular shows at present.  it all just looks like lazy patchwork to me.  there's nothing to be helped. 

and obviously the fact that coen references are in it aren't the issue, it's how they're employed.  the playful nods in the form of "easter eggs" is what i guess the kids call em these days, fine, whatever.  harmless.  plagiarizing full bits, recontextualizing them in a way that, for me, has no meaning... just rub me the wrong way, i don't know.

so malvo is anton with a better grasp of the english language and a sense of humor.

i intended my opinion to be stated in a dismissive manner because that's basically how i regard the show.  there's nothing wrong with a great story told well.   fargo doesn't have that going for it for me, precisely because all i can think about is how much like everything else it is, and how it doesn't engage me to consider it as anything more than a mixtape of what works in tv of late.  i'm glad that isn't the case for everyone.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Reelist on June 06, 2014, 07:17:03 AM
Well, I failed at my second attempt to finish ep 1. I'm going to forgo this one.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 06, 2014, 10:57:26 AM
I don't know how to help you.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on June 06, 2014, 11:19:20 AM
Well, if you can't see how Fargo, even if it's not revolutionary, tells a good story, with interesting characters, great cinematography, in a organic and cinematic way, I'm sorry that you can't enjoy nice things.  :yabbse-grin:

But seriously, I don't see the show as a collection of BB tropes. Lester isn't even, to me, the show center. We have Molly, Gus, H.W, the Yellow King, I loved the two agents who were punished. It has a sense of humour that I love. The scene where the neighbor tells his story was great. Some odd yet terrifying peaceful moments. That's what the show does best.

Time waster? Well, we're all wasting our time;  Fargo is a high quality time waster, then.  :bravo:
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 06, 2014, 12:44:57 PM
Lester even has crucial differences from Walter White, which they've been talking about in the AV Club reviews. Here's my take on it.

Walter White's transformation was slow and happened in a series of incremental choices big and small and a number of key events. As his progression was happening, we saw him struggle with his own morality, and you could even see him forcing himself to transform in certain crucial scenes, like Jane's death for example.

Lester is completely different. He flipped a switch. He instantly unlocked what had been there all along, repressed under layers of meekness and politeness. The character is a playful take on midwestern passive aggression.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: diggler on June 06, 2014, 03:57:10 PM
I was enjoying it mostly on the "interesting time waster" level, thinking it was all a little derivative, kind of like a more elaborate version of what Gus Van Sant did with Psycho. Whereas that was a shot for shot recreation, this was just aping the overall vibe of the film. Then the story hits a great conceit a few episodes in and the approach came into focus. I don't want to ruin it, but a big grin came across my face when it happened. It's worth watching, and one of the most cinematic shows I've seen lately (even more than Game of Thrones or Mad Men in terms of framing and cinematography). It'd work better as a one off miniseries than dragging it on and on, but it's definitely not a time waster.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on June 06, 2014, 04:28:03 PM
But it's just one miniseries, isn't it?
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 06, 2014, 04:40:40 PM
Yeah, from what I understand, it's just a limited run 10 episodes or whatever. Not even an anthology.

Noah Hawley needs to immediately make something else when this is done.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Mel on June 11, 2014, 06:00:32 AM
Spoilers 1x09

Yet another weak episode. I feel like last two episodes could be compressed into the one without loosing much. Not much humor, beside FBI agents, not much tension either, beside coffee shop scene. I liked two quotes:


One is indication that Malvo could be a devil in the end. Other opens a questions, what he feeds on? Fear, malice? That somehow reminds me "Twin Peaks".
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 11, 2014, 03:57:21 PM
spoilers
----
-

one of my favorite episodes. it was beautiful.
malvo still doing the long cons was fantastic, even better when we see how quickly he will snap and change everything.
lester hitting him over the head far too weakly was hilarious "shit, lester...what the.."

the garden of eden line was definitely indicative of malvos origin. how many of you guys think that the sioux falls story is eventually going to be revealed as the work of malvo a long time ago?

there is no way that lester can get out of this. another dead wife right when the investigation starts back up. this is the end.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 12, 2014, 01:42:02 PM
Yet another weak episode . . . not much tension either, beside coffee shop scene.

I don't have words to express how wrong you are. So so wrong.

SPOILERS

Malvo is one of the greatest characters I've seen, and Martin Freeman continues to amaze me (words I thought I'd never speak). The dentist story was an absolute delight.

Everything with Lester and his wife was so rich, and developed her character so effortlessly, that I did not see where things were obviously going. (Her story about being a maid was the tipoff. Sudden character-building story from past = imminent death.) Then, of course, I loved Lester's big character-defining moment. It reminded me of Walt sending the neighbor lady into his house, except it easily topped that. Marvelous episode.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 12, 2014, 02:18:20 PM
spoilers duh
-
i always like hearing what you have to say, jeremy.
i agree with you on walt sending his neighbor in the house, that's exactly what i was thinking.
upon rewatch, he prints out a ticket for only one passenger, which if i would have noticed that before, i wouldn't have enjoyed the moment as much.

i have a theory about malvo with molly lou and gus. gus sees the red car and makes the connection, lou sees the red car and talks to malvo (almost like he knows who he is, rather who he used to be, back in sioux falls), and malvo sees both gus and molly in connection to lou. i dont know what all those ingredients are going to mean in the end, but i hope it will be utter chaos.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 12, 2014, 05:53:57 PM
SPOILERS

i have a theory about malvo with molly lou and gus. gus sees the red car and makes the connection, lou sees the red car and talks to malvo (almost like he knows who he is, rather who he used to be, back in sioux falls), and malvo sees both gus and molly in connection to lou. i dont know what all those ingredients are going to mean in the end, but i hope it will be utter chaos.

Nice... like the fox, the rabbit, and the cabbage. That riddle is only solved when you get all three to the other side, i.e. put all the pieces together.

Maybe Lou overhears Gus talking about the red car. Although that's kind of boring. Whatever happens, I hope to be surprised.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: diggler on June 13, 2014, 01:28:53 PM
It was an interesting moment when Lester's wife covered for him, she wasn't that dumb after all. It was a little strange that she didn't inquire afterwards, but I liked that moment. It made it sting more when Lester sold her out.

Key and Peele rising up slowly behind the desk got a big laugh from me.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 13, 2014, 01:43:14 PM
SPOILERS

i have a theory about malvo with molly lou and gus. gus sees the red car and makes the connection, lou sees the red car and talks to malvo (almost like he knows who he is, rather who he used to be, back in sioux falls), and malvo sees both gus and molly in connection to lou. i dont know what all those ingredients are going to mean in the end, but i hope it will be utter chaos.

Nice... like the fox, the rabbit, and the cabbage. That riddle is only solved when you get all three to the other side, i.e. put all the pieces together.

i was thinking about it and i think its more like this:
malvo
lester
molly

molly wants malvo and lester
lester wants malvo and molly
malvo wants lester (already spared molly)

two or three cannot be in the same place. just like the fox rabbit and cabbage.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 13, 2014, 04:50:39 PM
Ohh... that's good, but doesn't work perfectly.

Alright, I think I've got it...

The fox wants the rabbit (but can be with the cabbage peacefully)
The rabbit wants the cabbage (and is evading the fox)
The cabbage wants nothing (except to escape unharmed)

So...

Molly wants Malvo (but can be with Lester peacefully)
Malvo wants Lester (and is evading Molly)
Lester wants nothing (except to escape unharmed)

Molly = fox
Malvo = rabbit
Lester = cabbage
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 14, 2014, 03:22:32 AM
dude i set em up and you knocked em down. BINGO. perfect. i love you jeremy.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Korova on June 14, 2014, 07:59:30 PM
So, I binge-watched all episodes today. Am in love with this series!
Spoilers
I just wanted to add a little other detail to the Linda thing. He told her at home, that she didn't need her coat, so he was setting it all up already before they were going to the insurance company. Also about the tension: I expected Mr. Malvo to pop up in almost every scene of the episode. The feeling of dread was almost palpable in many scenes, they're really doing a great job. Can't wait for the last episode!
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 14, 2014, 08:15:17 PM
He told her at home, that she didn't need her coat, so he was setting it all up already before they were going to the insurance company.

Yeah, I didn't notice that but read about it afterwards. Also apparently Lester wears his jacket in front of the window, ostensibly so Malvo sees him in it.

Here let me grab the screenshot...
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 15, 2014, 03:10:19 AM
and he creates this idea when he grabs it in the basement, after he loads his gun.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 15, 2014, 09:52:55 AM
Oh okay. I remember that now. It's funny, that's such a weird plan, it would only make sense to me via rewatch or discussion.

I was also wondering if he has a good life insurance policy on his wife...
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Fernando on June 17, 2014, 01:14:15 AM
great job guys, JB nailed it I think. Lester is more Malvo than he even knows, a cold SOB.

im late to the party but this show is amazing.

its kind of sad that there's only one episode left, I only expect that happenstance will bring mayhem and chaos.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on June 17, 2014, 01:57:30 PM
this last episode had a twin peaks / the shining vibe to it. the first 10 minutes were AWESOME in a "what the fuck's going on now?" sense.

Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 18, 2014, 12:35:44 PM
SPOILERS

Great finale. Would have liked to see the rabbi and some more supernatural elements return (maybe), otherwise I pretty much loved it.

I can see it being a disappointing finale for people who had certain expectations, like a Molly/Malvo faceoff, but I actually vastly prefer the Gus/Malvo faceoff. I thought Gus was so dumb for going into that cabin, and clearly my assumptions about him meant nothing. It was absolutely perfect for Malvo to be hobbled by Lester, who he underestimated, and then ended by Gus, who he vastly underestimated. His own arrogance was his downfall. Look at the shame in his face before Gus fills him with bullets. It was the most comprehensively humiliating defeat for him.

Malvo also underestimated Molly, to the point of ignoring her existence, and of course she made everything possible. I certainly didn't need her to pull the trigger.

If anyone is unhappy with the finale, I'd like to hear why, because I do have some more thoughts about it.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 18, 2014, 12:43:50 PM
man. jesus. ok....sigh...let's get this shit over with i guess.....

spoilers

what a frustrating situation. i love this show more than any other, and the finale was absolutely amazing, but ridiculously flawed. not TD dissappointing but i am left with so much unsatisfied that it makes my fucking blood boil.
ill break down individual criticisms.

- they had their priorities mixed with which loose ends to tie up. way too much about the dead wife, and gus and molly.
for a story that seems to have an incredibly rich and dark history spanning over 50 years (sioux falls, malvo's past), the last episode EVER dwelled way too much on stuff that happens in the very last episodes.
i wanted to see the opening be a flashback to sioux falls where we see a young malvo somewhere in the background at the very end and then boom, titles. i wanted to see some kind of salamanca twins style flashback with malvo. or some explanation of what he really is.

- waaaayyy too much lester. we got an almost boring rehash of what he's already done. i think that was the point in the 'MY WIFE IS DEAD' scene, since he was basically just repeating his emotions in a weak and struggling manner.

- lou, mollys dad, being pretty ignorant whenever he talks to her at the station the first time was WEIRD. throughout the series he has seemed incredibly knowing and wise and sly and under the radar. for him to come in like 'maybe that was the guy but gosh i dunno' just felt uncomfortable. i wanted him to bring some new crazy stuff to the surface. i mean, the way he treated lester in the restaurant was very very suspicious. it looked like he was seeing right through him. like that was the directorial intention. and nothing came from that. what the fuck. and again, NO SIOUX FALLS. stupid shit.

- no good deaths. this show has had amazing deaths, most of them pretty shocking. and while the two main characters died, they were bad guys, and that's boring. it's also expected. for a show that has pulled so many crazy stunts, the most important deaths of the show were the most banal. molly should have died, or gus, or his daughter. the emotional impact would have been infinitely more powerful and brilliant than the happy fade out of the family all together and everything is cool now.

more later. fuck.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 18, 2014, 01:17:30 PM
SPOILERS

Hmm. Yeah. I don't really agree with any of that. It sounds like you had some very specific expectations.

This never felt like a show that was destined for an abysmally dark conclusion. I'm somewhat perplexed that you were hoping for that. Fargo is about basic human decency overcoming evil. That's precisely what Molly's anecdote was about, and precisely why Lester didn't get it. That is the meaning of the show summed up neatly in one scene. And honestly, there was so much of that throughout the show, little moments of human goodness amidst the darkness, that I'm surprised people would expect those sentiments to be dishonored with the finale.

i wanted to see the opening be a flashback to sioux falls where we see a young malvo somewhere in the background at the very end and then boom, titles. i wanted to see some kind of salamanca twins style flashback with malvo. or some explanation of what he really is.

This is definitely not Breaking Bad, nor was it ever. The Breaking Bad finale was not dark enough for me. This was just right. And I think I actually like the finale more after reading your criticisms.

no good deaths. this show has had amazing deaths, most of them pretty shocking.

I think Malvo's death was great, as I described on the last page, in the way that he was perfectly humiliated. Lester's death was also perfect. He died running onto literal thin ice... how could you not love that?

molly should have died, or gus, or his daughter.

Yeah, I have to say, this is definitely not the show you thought it was.

I heard part of Noah Hawley's Fresh Air interview the other day. He talked about Fargo (the movie and the TV show) as a story where the protagonist does not necessarily have to be haunted or tormented by the darkness they encounter.

Now, extrapolating, this is a potent demonstration of the power that good has to overcome evil and emerge whole on the other side, as Molly and Gus clearly do. It's a triumph. This is something that happens.

At the end of the day, it doesn't have to be the Yellow King. Sometimes it's a guy on a couch who can be killed with bullets like anyone else.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: diggler on June 18, 2014, 02:36:36 PM
I thought that Malvo's death wonderfully subverted expectations. Every cliche leads you to believe Gus was in over his head and when he had Malvo on the couch, I expected him to draw it out and Malvo to overpower him somehow, then he shoots Malvo dead.  The show paid tribute to the movie but also worked around it in interesting ways. Having Gus be the one to be the hero at the cabin goes against your expectations but in the context of the show it was the best way to resolve things.

I think Sioux Falls was meant to develop Carradine's character. The fact that it interested everyone so much is a testament to how well he played Lou. Lou went through some shit, that's all you need to know about him.

Odenkirk knocked me flat with that last monologue.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 18, 2014, 05:51:46 PM
^ Totally agreed.

Here's the Fresh Air interview. Great listen.

http://www.npr.org/2014/06/16/322571287/fargo-tv-series-captures-the-best-and-worst-of-america
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Fernando on June 20, 2014, 12:55:32 PM
I felt first like 03 about the finale, BUT, after reading JB's thoughts I started appreciating the finale more, which was not the case with True Detective, that was really disappointing.

My only quip would be that some scenes lacked more tension but that's about it.

Malvo's death was perfect in my opinion, I thought too that somehow having a gun on him wouldn't be enough, even when Gus puts three bullets on him it looked like he could do something but fortunately Gus didn't give him a time and boom, he was gone.

Odenkirk knocked me flat with that last monologue.

YES. Everything was perfect about it, loved the way he recognized Molly.


Trivia. The guy at the lot that ''rides'' with Malvo is the same guy that Lester tells him what would happen if he has an accident, only he said he worked at the library.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 20, 2014, 12:58:53 PM
Quote
Trivia. The guy at the lot that ''rides'' with Malvo is the same guy that Lester tells him what would happen if he has an accident, only he said he worked at the library.

i noticed this too, but then i considered that it is over a year later, so he probaly had to get a better job. i don't see raising a child on library salary.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: squints on June 20, 2014, 09:26:41 PM
The ending of the show felt exactly like the end of the film in terms of maintaining the heart and moral of the whole story.

The end of Lester was pretty bad though. Kinda heavy handed.

Snow mobile chase? Treading on THIN ICE?

This show wasn't perfect. But it was different and something new and it made me appreciate the coens a bit more.

Not one point in the entire series do we hear the main theme from Fargo. Carter Burwell's masterpiece. This was my main complaint with the whole show.

Then, at the very end, here comes that melody and I was satiated.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on June 30, 2014, 09:17:35 PM
this was fantastic. just great, solid chops in every aspect from start to finish. loved the ending with the original fargo score too.
I'm now a big fan of martin freeman and I may even give that hobbit third film a go just for him.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on July 03, 2014, 04:50:57 AM
so i just finished watching 'rushmore' with my girlfriend, she had never seen it before for some reason.
i noticed some crazy similarities to the series 'fargo' that i thought were kind of strange, and i'd like to hear yalls thoughts on it, and whether or not you think they were intentional:

1. blume inside his hotel room when it becomes filled with bees (fargo: super market scene)
2. the redheaded twins that are incredibly retarded and violent, and one of them receives a crossbow for his birthday (fargo:hess' sons behavior, also crossbow)
3. blume and max standing in the elevator when it opens onto an empty floor (fargo: exact same thing)

weird, huh?
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on July 03, 2014, 10:25:45 PM
1. blume inside his hotel room when it becomes filled with bees (fargo: super market scene)
2. the redheaded twins that are incredibly retarded and violent, and one of them receives a crossbow for his birthday (fargo:hess' sons behavior, also crossbow)
3. blume and max standing in the elevator when it opens onto an empty floor (fargo: exact same thing)

weird, huh?

Awesome pulls.
There was a lot of subtle influence from various sources, not just the Coens, and all were well done. Especially surprising is the work done by Matt Shakman, who I'll always equate with "It's always sunny in philadelphia", a decidedly less cinematic franchise.
Despite the "aquatic life falling from the sky"-type antics, did anyone else think Lester's awards ceremony was lit and shot much like Dirk receiving awards in Boogie Nights?
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Mel on July 11, 2014, 02:45:55 AM
I didn't see finale yet. Anyway, it seems that second season is possibility.

Fargo Season 2: Noah Hawley Hints at Revisiting Coen Brothers Catalog
via THR (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fargo-season-2-noah-hawley-717751)

Fresh off the impressive news of his miniseries' 18 Emmy nominations, Fargo creator Noah Hawley is now probably feeling a bit of heat for that follow-up.

Though the showrunner, who adapted the Coen Brothers' 1996 film to much applause, has not officially gotten a green light for second installment, its Emmy clout and his overall deal with FX Productions make it something of a given.

"In success, no one ever really does a mic drop and walks away," Hawley told The Hollywood Reporter on Thursday morning. "If I told FX that it was my best work, they would be thrilled with the success of it right now. But I feel like I'm close on a new idea for another Fargo 10-hour idea that we'll talk about in the coming weeks."

The shape of Fargo 2.0, however, is less certain. Hawley was naturally guarded about what he's considering and couldn't speak to any possible returns for his heavily-nominated cast, but he did imply that he'd like to linger in a world adjacent to his original source material.

"What's really interesting about this exercise of emulating a movie, as a storyteller, is having available to me a whole body of work," he says. "The Coen brothers are so varied — from Raising Arizona to A Serious Man, there's so much."

One thing that can be said for whatever Hawley and FX do next is that it won't stray far from the detective drama at the heart of this first time at bat. "What is the inspiration this season? It's always going to be rooted in true crime," he adds. "There will always be grisly murder with good versus evil."
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Fernando on July 21, 2014, 12:01:10 PM
‘Fargo’ Gets Second Season on FX

Has FX given a second season order to Noah Hawley’s “Fargo” miniseries? You betcha.

The network announced Monday at Television Critics Association that it has renewed the adaption of Joel and Ethan Coen’s popular film, which recently racked up an astounding 18 Emmy nominations. Similar to HBO’s “True Detective,” this new story will feature different characters, a new time period and a differnet “true crime” story that will unfold over the course of 10 episodes.

“We could not be more proud of Fargo,” said John Landgraf, CEO of FX Networks & FX Productions. “Noah’s audacious, bordering on hubristic riff on my favorite Coen brothers film earned 18 Emmy nominations – the most for a single program in our history. Fargo was nothing short of breathtaking and we look forward to the next installment.”
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: MacGuffin on July 22, 2014, 06:12:28 PM
'Fargo' Season 2 to Be a Period Piece Inspired By Coen Brothers' 'Miller's Crossing' & 'The Man Who Wasn't There'
Source: IndieWire

We only just learned Monday morning that there would even be a second season of FX's hit miniseries "Fargo," but by the end of the day we knew when it would take place, some of the returning characters, the inspirations and much more about the second season. Noah Hawley shared many details on the anticipated follow-up to this year's Emmy-nominated thriller at a "secret" panel discussion with executive producer Warren Littlefield at the TCAs (it wasn't announced until FX revealed the existence of Season 2). Check out everything we now know below:

Season 2 will focus on the story of Sioux Falls.

"If you were paying attention to Season 1, you know we made a lot of references to Sioux Falls," Hawley said. "That was deliberate. That wasn't an accident. So what this next 10-hour movie is going to be is the story of Sioux Falls."

In the first season, we learned Gus' (Colin Hanks) boss, Ben Schmidt, had an unfortunate incident in Sioux Falls that was never explained, where bodies stacked up "two stories high." Who was he with? Well, Lou Solverson, Molly's father who managed the diner after he retired from the force. Could the bloody event be what the '70s set story is all about? In a word, yes.

The story will take place in 1979 and include characters from the first season.

"The movie will take place in 1979," Hawley said. "It will take place mostly around Laverne, Minnesota, Fargo, and, of course, Sioux Falls."

The main character Hawley confirmed would return for Season 2 is Lou, played by Keith Carradine in Season 1. The actor won't be returning, seeing as the time setting is almost 30 years before the events of the first season, but it will prove interesting to see what casting will go through to find a look-a-like who can also imitate Carradine's hardened, but lovable persona. And hardened he most likely will be, seeing as Hawley said the police officer will be recently returned from duty in Vietnam.

Other characters confirmed to return are Lou's father-in-law and Duluth police lieutenant Ben Schmidt, played by Peter Breitmayer in Season 1, who Hawley said "will factor in there somewhere" (obviously, since he was part of the aforementioned event). Molly Solverson and her mother will also be characters, but don't expect to see Allison Tolman reprise her star-making role: Little Molly will only be four years old in Season 2, which means...

Allison Tolman won't be returning (and neither will the rest of the cast).

Obviously, many characters died in the first season of "Fargo," a fact not worth noting when we all thought it was going to be a one-off miniseries. Now that there's going to be more events near the Great White North, critics were curious if anyone would be coming back. Hawley said Season 2 would feature a whole new cast, but some characters would return as younger versions of themselves. Conversation quickly turned to newcomer and crowd favorite Allison Tolman.

"She should be in everything anybody ever makes as far as I'm concerned," Hawley said, echoing the sentiments of many who watched Tolman's empathetic performance in the first season of "Fargo." He went as far as to call Tolman Monday morning before the announcement to tell her, before saying her lack of involvement in Season 2 "is a crime and a tragedy and you all should be very angry [about it]."

Later, a critic asked if Hawley had considered using Tolman to play Molly's mother. "It seems a little gimmicky to me," Hawley said. "I would like nothing more than to see the continuing adventures of Molly and Gus, but I felt it would be disingenuous [...] to give her another crazy case."

"Fargo" Season 2 will be inspired by "Miller's Crossing," "The Man Who Wasn't There" and, of course, "Fargo."

Noah Hawley said the first season was inspired by three movies from the Coen Brothers, and he confirmed Season 2 would follow suit. "So if the three movies that influenced Season 1 were 'Fargo,' 'No Country For Old Men,' and 'A Serious Man,' this year we are in 'Fargo,' 'Miller's Crossing,' and "The Man Who Wasn't There.' So let the internet speculation begin."

Obviously, the period piece nature of Season 2 alludes to the two new films (though it's funny Billy Bob Thornton won't be returning in Season 2, despite starring in one of the season's inspirations). What other elements could be of note? "Miller's Crossing" told the story of warring mobs, indicating a possible explanation for all those bodies stacking up in Sioux Falls. "The Man Who Wasn't There" dealt with another poorly-conceived plan regarding a husband and wife who aren't exactly a loving couple. Hmm...sounds vaguely familiar.

Noah Hawley will not write every episode of Season 2.

"You know, I'm not going to write all the episodes this time," Hawley said. "I had four writers I worked with on the first go round who helped me break all the episodes, and then I went off to write them because I had the time to write all 10 of them. But, you know, these writers I worked with -- Bob De Laurentiis, Steve Blackman and Ben Nedivi and Matt Wolpert -- these are great writers who contributed so much to the first season it would be unfair not to let them write episodes in the second season."

"I'll probably write five or six," Hawley added. "We're just starting to break that story for Season 2 now."

We may get to see what "Fargo" looks like in the summer.

"I'm not writing another blizzard episode, that's for sure."

Production on Season 1 was incredibly difficult on the cast and crew, with conditions reaching wretched temperatures for anyone not raised in the Arctic. So will the second season see a seasonal change?

"I think we're beginning to earn the right to explore that," Hawley said regarding seeing the Fargo area during a different time of year. "I think moving forward it would be fun to start in a wintery environment and then maybe switch over during the course of the season. Or, if we do a third one of these [seasons], come back and see summer in Fargo."

"Believe you me, we would do Fargo, Honolulu, if we could," Hawley said.

Don't expect to see Season 2 until Fall 2015 (at the earliest).

As stated earlier in the day when FX renewed "Fargo" for a second season, the FX team reiterated when fans should expect to see the second season -- and it won't be for at least a year. Production is slated to begin in January 2015 and go "deep into May," meaning a Fall 2015 release would be right on schedule. The timing would still coincide with the winter months, as the first season did, even if we may see another season in the Fargo universe this go 'round.

FX is seriously jealous of "True Detective."

There were so many references made to HBO's smash freshman series, you would think FX was competing directly against it for most of its Emmys.

Earlier in the day, CEO Jon Landgraf, who's admitted to losing out on his bid for "True Detective" to HBO, referenced the show by saying its creator and writer Nic Pizzolatto has to prove he can write a second season as good as the first whereas Hawley does not, a not-so-hidden dig at Pizzolatto's work on the disappointing first season of AMC's "The Killing" (though that show remarkably has made it to a fourth season thanks to Netflix).

During Hawley's presentation, he joked that "Fargo" was close to casting Colin Farrell for Season 2, another obvious jab at rumors surrounding casting on "True Detective" -- casting that's not nearly as exciting as previous rumors made it out to be. Is the network preparing for a face off at next year's Emmys, where HBO's non-miniseries could switch categories if it's unsuccessful in its bids to win as a drama series in 2014? Or is Landgraf's company still smarting from its failed bid for the landmark crime drama? It certainly added another dramatic element to Monday's FX presentation.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on July 23, 2014, 01:53:30 AM
............i just wet my pants
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on January 30, 2015, 04:49:59 PM
source: EW (http://www.ew.com/article/2015/01/18/fargo-season2-details)



Oh, you want new details on Fargo’s second season? You betcha, we got ‘em!

During TCA’s winter press tour, FX CEO John Langraf revealed that Ronald Reagan will figure into the second season of the network’s hit anthology series.

The new chapter travels back to 1979, where a young Lou Solverson (Patrick Wilson, played in the first season by Keith Carradine) returns from Vietnam and begins to investigate a local gang and a mob syndicate.

“It covers something that was referenced in the first installment by Lou Solverson, Molly Solverson’s [Allison Tolman] father,” Langraf said. “It’s a big sprawling, in some ways, more comedic [season], though at times, a very serious show. It’s set in the late ’70s against the backdrop of Ronald Reagan’s first campaign for President of the United States. Reagan is a character in it.”

After the panel, Landgraf confided to EW that Fargo will actually be casting the role of Reagan, not using archival footage. “Reagan will be interacting with our characters,” he said, noting that the role has not yet been cast.

Joining Wilson in the second season: Ted Danson as Hank Larsson, Lou’s unflappable father-in-law; Nick Offerman as Karl Weathers, a local lawyer; Jean Smart as Floyd Gerhardt, the matriarch of the Gerhardt crime family; Jeffrey Donovan as her eldest son, Dodd Gerhardt; Angus Sampson as her inarticulate middle son, Bear Gerhardt; Kieran Culkin as her youngest son, Rye Gerhardt; and Kirsten Dunst as small town beautician Peggy Blomquist, and her husband Ed (Jesse Plemons), who attempts to be supportive of his wife’s self-discovery, even if he doesn’t quite understand it.

In that vein, Langrad noted that feminism will play a big role in the second season. “A lot of what it’s about is the cultural transformation that was going on at the time,” Landgraf said. “It’s about the sense that the war has come home. It’s also about feminism, so there are some really significant female characters. It’s a big, sprawling, incredibly ambitious [series]. Noah [Hawley] just channeled the Coen brothers and tells stories in a way that’s so fresh and so surprising.”

The second season of Fargo is slated to begin production on Monday, with the 10-episode anthology miniseries expected to premiere in the fall.


and also: patrick wilson discussing playing 'young keith carradine' http://www.hitfix.com/the-fien-print/patrick-wilson-teases-his-fargo-season-2-accent-and-more
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on July 30, 2015, 02:43:45 AM

THIS HAS BEEN OUT A WEEK AND NO ONE SAID ANYTHING
freaking amazing, excited;;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFVNi8gUEy4
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on July 30, 2015, 10:32:06 AM
This looks fantastic. Maybe people will realize Fargo has always been better than True Detective.

Noah Hawley had a great interview on The Nerdist Writers Panel by the way:

http://nerdist.com/nerdist-writers-panel-145-noah-hawley-and-fargo/
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on October 14, 2015, 01:54:09 AM
the season two premiere was amazing and very unexpected. did anyone else see it? if not, theres not really a reason to divulge spoilers.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 14, 2015, 08:37:46 AM
I've had a busy week but I'll see it tonight. Can't wait. Spoil away (with a warning plz).
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 15, 2015, 12:12:02 AM
This is probably the best show on TV right now. Every scene is packed with meaning. There are layers upon layers and numerous quirky delights to uncover... a welcome contrast to The Walking Dead. (The AV Club has an especially good review (http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/fargos-second-season-premiere-everyone-hears-stori-226733) of this episode.)

The dialogue and the editing were both appropriately off-kilter and sometimes even jarring. I don't think that was my imagination. Skip Macdonald (of Breaking Bad) edited, so that's interesting.

SPOILER

Shame that we (presumably) don't get to see Kieran Culkin in future episodes.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: tpfkabi on October 18, 2015, 06:54:37 PM
I didn't watch Season 1, but I saw Kirsten Dunst interviewed and someone else talk about it, so I watched the S2 premiere.
I enjoyed it. It felt pretty much like the recent good AMC TV series, and Tarantino.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 18, 2015, 07:16:03 PM
Stick with the show, cause I guarantee it's just getting started. Season 1 had an episode or two of wind-up, then really took off and was masterful through the end.

Also, watch Season 1. Best Billy Bob Thornton and Martin Freeman performances ever.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on October 20, 2015, 11:31:41 PM
Another great one. Slightly less exciting, but a lot of things are being set up.

Here's a must-watch from The AV Club:

Split-screen decisions: Analyzing Fargo’s most striking new visual flourish (http://www.avclub.com/video/split-screen-decisions-analyzing-fargos-most-strik-226823)
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on October 28, 2015, 12:06:30 AM
this is the best show on television.

spoilers


the coen brothers style is godlike.
everything is cold. you can feel the snow in every scene.
you know how sad it will be to go home.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: tpfkabi on October 28, 2015, 06:48:22 AM
I can't help but think about Plemons doing FNL, Breaking Bad, The Master, and now this.
You can tell that the actor with the brothers from Kansas City is having a lot of fun with that part.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Tictacbk on November 06, 2015, 02:45:52 PM
Finally had time to catch up on this show. Watched all of Season 1 and caught up on 2 ove the last couple weeks. Yeah, wow. If you're not watching this, you're watching TV wrong. Nic Pizzolatto must hate it.

SPOILERS for season two:
-love all the Vietnam talk.
-when are we going to talk about the UFO's?
-I hope they go BTTF-style, and do a season 3 in the 1800s.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: samsong on November 14, 2015, 06:34:35 AM
grooving on this season so fucking hard.  plays like beckett by way of tarantino.  altman would've loved it.  hope the rest of the season's as good as i want/expect it to be. 
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: RegularKarate on November 18, 2015, 03:48:40 PM
Yep, it's pretty great. I don't like it as much as season 1, but that's only because it doesn't have Billy Bob Thornton in probably his best role ever. It's still great and the only T.V. show right now that I watch as it airs (or at least the next day so I can see it on FX Now)

Anyone else think season 3 might go back even further in time? See some more shit like that movie theater scene?

This last episode had the tension of a season finale, I was on edge through almost the entire thing.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on November 24, 2015, 05:41:29 PM
What's the point of doing a great scene from The Sopranos minus the emotion and the background? Why, Fargo?  :doh:
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on November 24, 2015, 05:48:26 PM
I was disappointed by this latest episode, except for two or three very excellent scenes. It's definitely underperforming vs. Season 1 right now. I have a feeling it will swiftly recover, though.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on November 24, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
It will probably recover but my heart isn't with the show the same way it was in season 1. Too much distance with the characters. And Season 1 was surprising in a way Season 2 isn't. But there's nothing bad with being straightforward. And I can still feel that the show is in the same world. Some scenes are excellent.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on November 24, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
Totally agreed. Also, this suffers in comparison to The Leftovers right now. Which is not really fair. A show that has not been renewed yet. Which is really not fair.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: samsong on November 29, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
last couple episodes have been a bit of a letdown as it's resorted to rote gangster tropes and really regressed in its coen bros pastiche.  the miller's crossing riff was hollow at best.  oh well.  what could've been...
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Garam on December 01, 2015, 10:50:00 PM
It picked up again after the Miller's Crossing retread. This last episode was fantastic. Kirsten Dunst was the highlight.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on December 02, 2015, 11:27:28 AM
this show is perfect and you guys are crazy. that is all.
every scene is like the best scene from a great movie.
seriously. think about it. even if you dont like the millers crossing scene in the episode
you still know thats the best and/or most iconic scene from that film. the infinity mirror elevator shots?
best show on tv now and i will stand by it to the death.
also: anyone following the episode title theme this season? i exposed the first season earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on December 02, 2015, 12:07:46 PM
This week's episode was definitely a return to form. It leaned a little too heavily on punchlines at times, but it was still great. It had that Fargo freshness and was genuinely unpredictable.

Season 2 is definitely missing the weight of Season 1, though. They never really found a way to replace Lorne Malvo's energy in a consistent way. Mike Milligan is amazing, but he's fizzled out a bit. Hanzee is amazing too, but he's had such a late emergence (and is now presumably on the run). It feels like they're experimenting.

I think The Leftovers is far and away the best show on TV. Not that it's a competition, just saying.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: diggler on December 02, 2015, 03:21:51 PM
Guys, guys, why does everything have to be a competition? Fargo and The Leftovers are both excellent shows with their own merits.

Besides, The Knick is the best show on television.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Tictacbk on December 03, 2015, 01:37:11 PM
I think this season is better than last season. Mr Robot is the best show of the year.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: polkablues on December 03, 2015, 02:04:40 PM
All worthy competitors, but You're The Worst is the actual best show on television right now.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on December 03, 2015, 03:46:07 PM
The Sopranos is still the best show on television. I'm sure it airs somewhere. On televisions.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Garam on December 03, 2015, 06:39:32 PM
Nathan for You stands head and shoulders above the competititon
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on December 03, 2015, 07:21:47 PM
That's why you have a Comedy & Musical category.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on December 05, 2015, 09:27:18 PM
what happened? this was going so well. and then these two last episodes, specially last episode. wtf?
the kristen dunst stuff really felt unearned and forced into us. like "just accept this nonsense"...the blonde dude phone call to the hotel, the way he managed to get his call to the room...just lazy. come on, fargo, you can recover. I have faith.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on December 06, 2015, 10:40:57 AM
What's the nonsense about Dunst character? The show begins to acknowledge what we all know since the first episode of the season. Something is wrong with her.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Garam on December 06, 2015, 11:48:21 AM
Are you nuts? That was maybe the best episode of the entire run! The Dunst stuff wasn't unearned, she's been the one steering this ship the entire time. Plemons wanted to talk when the cop gave them the ultimatum, she stonewalled it.


The phonecall thing doesn't bother me because this is pulpy as hell and has never gone for realism. The Billy Bob character in the first season was borderline supernatural.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on December 06, 2015, 11:11:30 PM
SPOILERS

To me her stuff has been always the weak link. I liked that she was in shock at the beginning, but the motivational crap felt lame from the get go. Even if you are willing to accept that she has lost her mind (I accept it but really disliked how she and the show are playing it in this "isn't this funny?" style) you have to fly with the idea of the husband being totally oblivious to her psychosis. And that doesn't work at all. At least for me.

I don't mind supernatural. And Billy Bob was awesome all the way through within that vibe, but Plemons has never showed anything remotely like that. It's a minor thing, the call, perhaps, but it bothered me because it felt like more of those jokes around the north dakota's folks naive ways.



Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Tictacbk on December 09, 2015, 06:23:24 PM
So... that was awesome.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Drenk on December 09, 2015, 06:51:16 PM
So... that was awesome.

Pretty much, yes.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on December 11, 2015, 11:06:32 PM
yes, pretty much.
one thing I like is how freely the show uses all sorts of techniques and film language solutions regardless of wether it makes "sense" or if "motifs" are part of the show or not. like the narration, suddenly coming up here.

tense episode, but it did made me think about something like breaking bad and how time spent with characters helps to create more tension. by spending so long with walter white, an episode like this in season 4, let's say, would have been nerve wracking. here, everything feels lighter. I'm not so sure if my reasoning and "blaming" this on time is correct, but it made me think about it.

however, it was a huge improvement over the last episode and now I'm hooked again. :)
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Garam on December 11, 2015, 11:36:56 PM
tense episode, but it did made me think about something like breaking bad and how time spent with characters helps to create more tension. by spending so long with walter white, an episode like this in season 4, let's say, would have been nerve wracking. here, everything feels lighter. I'm not so sure if my reasoning and "blaming" this on time is correct, but it made me think about it.

Breaking Bad was tense as fuck, but i never felt Walter White was in any real danger, cause he has to live to the end...or til the end (spoiler alert). Without him, there's no show. I feel there's much more uncertainty in films or finite TV series (or anthology seasons) because they don't have that problem.

Even with a TV show like Breaking Bad or The Sopranos, there's a certain degree of that old 'revert to normality' TV golden rule. Mini-series/anthologies can ignore that rule.

BrBa and The Wire and The Sopranos are all incredible shows and justify their length, but even they had a fair bit of padding. It feels great to watch something lean, like old european tv shows. The 'Golden Age of TV' is also extremely flabby. Really self indulgent and flabby.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on December 13, 2015, 09:44:21 AM
Sure, but the thing with Breaking Bad and all those other shows where there's a main character and you know he won't die in the middle of the season is that stakes are not about the chances of said character to die. With Walter White is was always about what consequences would it bring. We knew he wasn't going to die, but it was super exciting because we knew so much about him and had a whole lot of emotional stakes in place. In a way it makes it more exciting that he couldn't just die because it meant there were plenty of possible and potentially disastrous outcomes.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on December 15, 2015, 12:30:58 AM
SPOILERS

In case people didn't catch it, Hanzee becomes Mr. Tripoli, the head of the Fargo mob in Season 1. The kids playing baseball are in Season 1, too — the deaf hitman, of course, and his friend.

Season 2:

"Not apprehend, dead. Don't care heavily-guarded, don't care into the sea, kill and be killed. Head in a bag. There's the message."

Season 1:

"Not apprehend, dead. Don’t care extramarital, don’t care not related, kill and be killed. Head in a bag. There’s the message.”


More:

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/12/fargo-who-is-moses-tripoli-season-2-finale-recap-palindrome

http://www.bustle.com/articles/129755-the-fargo-season-2-finale-connects-to-season-1-in-surprising-ways
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Tictacbk on December 15, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
 *SPOILERS*

Well that strange twist aside, I thought it was a pretty good finale. Everything with Peggy was great (poor Ed), Mike Milligan's fate was unexpected and hilarious, and Ted Danson was crazy but in like, a nice way.  Just not sure I buy Hanzee becoming Tripoli. And I suppose maybe he didn't. Maybe he did get that much surgery and change, and maybe Charlie Gerhardt got his arm fixed and turned into Malvo and got his revenge. 

Sidenote: Does anyone know why I already knew Lou's helicopter story from the scene with Peggy? Apparently it's true, but I can't figure out where I had heard it before.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on December 15, 2015, 02:58:05 PM
Completely agree.

SPOILS

The Mr. Tripoli twist was obviously not planned from Season 1. Feels like the idea might have occurred to them while writing the finale — and that is not the feeling you want from a monumental development like this. It's like a crazy fan theory actually pasted onto the show, made explicit enough (see above) that you can't possibly dispute it. That's a shame, and I think it contributes to this season being decidedly weaker than Season 1.

I think we could have guessed that Peggy and Hanzee would be among the few survivors, so that felt right. I absolutely loved the scene with Ed telling her, with his dying breath, that their marriage probably wouldn't work out. Peggy was one of the most interesting characters, and I think I'm okay with knowing for certain now that she's outright delusional. Also, she was inadvertently asking to serve her time at Alcatraz, right?

I don't think anyone became Malvo. We should let him be. That was one of the best TV characters (and performances) of all time; let's not spoil it.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: polkablues on December 16, 2015, 01:49:24 AM
Sidenote: Does anyone know why I already knew Lou's helicopter story from the scene with Peggy? Apparently it's true, but I can't figure out where I had heard it before.

Apparently it was featured in the documentary Last Days in Vietnam.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Alexandro on December 16, 2015, 10:46:02 PM
I kept ambivalent until the end, but that Ted Danson monologue about images versus words deeply moved me. Awesome note to end the whole thing with.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on December 18, 2015, 01:01:37 AM
the "shit cop" character mentions that the situation is 'rapid city all over again', right before peggy smashes his face. do you guys think that will be season 3?
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Garam on December 18, 2015, 04:53:21 AM
Nah, it's already confirmed it's going to be set in 2009 or thereabouts.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 21, 2016, 11:28:24 AM
Just released, Noah Hawley has a great interview on the Vulture TV Podcast.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: 03 on June 21, 2016, 09:51:40 PM
took me longer to find than i expected so here guys: http://podbay.fm/show/969523266/e/1466481600?autostart=1
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: polkablues on July 11, 2016, 05:09:12 PM
Best actor on TV joins Fargo season three (http://uproxx.com/tv/fargo-carrie-coon/)

I'm hyped.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on July 11, 2016, 05:38:18 PM
Oh my! She's actually a perfect fit for Fargo's sensibility. :yabbse-thumbup:
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on April 23, 2017, 01:46:49 AM
Watched the premiere and absolutely loved it. It was more than an hour long, but I wanted more. Nothing (including the actual Coens) has quite the same sensibility. I think every musical cue made me giddy. Even loved all the performances.

This could easily be better than Season 2.

Minnesota accuracy corner! The rich brother's place is supposedly in Eden Prairie. That's fine, but Eden Prairie is a rich southern suburb of Minneapolis. There's not that much open land. I think the most rural house you'd see there is something like this:


(https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_h/ISlio9l9qopcjd0000000000.jpg)


Probably nothing quite like the frozen tundra that we see in this episode. Doesn't bother me that much, though, because an upscale ranch house on a decent amount of land is certainly something you see in slightly more rural parts of the state, some that are only 10-20 miles away.

SPOILS

Here's the more bothersome inaccuracy. Everyone knows Eden Prairie. It's the 12th biggest city in Minnesota and a memorable part of the metro area. However, I had literally never heard of "Eden Valley." Absolutely no one, not even Scoot, would make this mistake.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 05, 2017, 12:52:41 AM
This one was a bit underwhelming. Even if the plot excited you, there were definitely some obvious/boring character choices. Still a lot to appreciate. Just lacked intensity.

This 30-something Minnesotan who avoids technology is a mythical creature. It's actually taking me out of the show. If anything, I've observed that small-town Minnesotans get even more involved in social media to connect with the outside world and alleviate boredom. Certainly someone of Gloria's age.

I vividly remember perhaps 5 years ago stopping at a gas station in Pine River, a remote town (population 927) in northern Minnesota, hidden in thick pine forest (near the beautiful Chippewa National Forest, in fact). The two employees at the gas station had the newest iPhones and were already obsessively tapping away on them when we walked in. One of them used hers to very quickly give us directions.

Gloria saying "I'll have a diet pop" made me roll my eyes. I'll buy that she says "pop" (although that's steadily going out of style). But we're to believe she's so ignorant that she doesn't know there are multiple brands? It was just a weird moment of dumbness.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: RegularKarate on May 05, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
I liked this episode. It felt like it was planting little seeds in my brain. I also keep remembering that by episode three of season 2, I wasn't totally on board and everything changed after 4 (or maybe 5?) so I'm just letting it happen.

This 30-something Minnesotan who avoids technology is a mythical creature. It's actually taking me out of the show. If anything, I've observed that small-town Minnesotans get even more involved in social media to connect with the outside world and alleviate boredom. Certainly someone of Gloria's age.

Nonsense. My girlfriend barely uses technology and we live in Austin. She has a Facebook account (that she doesn't visit) now, but certainly didn't seven years ago.
I think aversion to social media and technology happen to certain people no matter where they live. They're not painting her a small-town rube, they're just painting her.

Gloria saying "I'll have a diet pop" made me roll my eyes. I'll buy that she says "pop" (although that's steadily going out of style). But we're to believe she's so ignorant that she doesn't know there are multiple brands? It was just a weird moment of dumbness.

But every show has to do this. This happened seconds after the guy said "Two Beers". Why didn't that make your eyes roll? Because we're used to that. Because every show/ movie does it unless they have brand sponsors.

You have weird nitpicks for this show, Blackman.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: modage on May 05, 2017, 11:41:46 AM
Two small things: I loved the premiere, was underwhelmed by ep 2 and loved ep 3.

The animated stuff was definitely a rip/nod to World of Tomorrow right?

Re: social media. This is back in 2010 so it's a totally different landscape then. I don't think my mom was on FB yet. It's reasonable to think Carrie Coon wouldn't have been sucked in yet either.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 05, 2017, 02:46:48 PM
I'll concede the point about social media.

They're not painting her a small-town rube, they're just painting her.

Her small-town-ness is central to that characterization, though. We've already been told how her police department doesn't even use computers.

But I think Gloria does have some kind of existential issue with technology that goes beyond that. The automatic door didn't work for her. (And was there something else?)

But every show has to do this. This happened seconds after the guy said "Two Beers". Why didn't that make your eyes roll? Because we're used to that. Because every show/ movie does it unless they have brand sponsors.

There were other brands even in this episode, though. Arby's. Whatchamacallit.

Could be that cola is considered the default by most service workers. Maybe they actually do accept "diet pop" as an order.

Either way I think it's obvious that "diet pop" was used here because you can squeeze a lot of rural Minnesota accent out of that phrase.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: RegularKarate on May 05, 2017, 05:03:20 PM

Either way I think it's obvious that "diet pop" was used here because you can squeeze a lot of rural Minnesota accent out of that phrase.

I'll give you that. She did just say 'pop' and not 'cola' and it was obviously trying to make her seem more midwestern.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Garam on May 11, 2017, 03:07:58 PM
David Thewlis is having an absolute ball in this role, and it's the best season yet because of it.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: RegularKarate on May 12, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
I definitely don't think this is the best season, but I really liked this last episode. Love the occasional return of Billy Bob Thornton as a narrator.

SPOILS

Are we being led to find out that Thewlis' wolf character isn't actually rich at all? We know he binges and purges, but that leaves you with nothing.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on May 12, 2017, 12:46:02 PM
SPOILERS

I would say he's definitely as rich as he suggests. The binging/purging I think is an expression of his gluttony and greed. He wants to devour everything around him. The way he vomits is kind demonic, actually. I think those parallels are intended.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on June 11, 2017, 12:44:46 AM
The most recent episode (308) is one of the series' best. Absolutely bonkers, intense, and delightful. I'd already put this season above the second.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: polkablues on June 11, 2017, 12:55:48 AM
Ray Wise is a tactical warhead of awesomeness. I'm honestly amazed he's never been in an actual Coen Brothers movie. He's so perfectly suited to their vibe.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: diggler on June 12, 2017, 02:38:36 PM
The first half of this past episode was intense as hell, very well done.

Is this the first season to feature actors who appeared in Coen films?
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: polkablues on June 12, 2017, 02:49:26 PM
Well, Billy Bob Thornton.
Title: Re: Fargo (TV series)
Post by: diggler on June 13, 2017, 09:51:09 AM
Shit, can't believe I overlooked that.