Spike Lee on Rap

Started by godardian, December 02, 2003, 05:03:11 PM

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Thecowgoooesmooo

QuoteAnd what is it accomplishing socially?

It dosen't have to accomplish anything socially. In fact, most music dosen't accomplish anything socially.

But in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, I think it does accomplish one thing. It makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America, and I think that is very important.

QuoteNow that it has established and commercialized certain cultural ideas, where else can it go but away from truth?


What in the hell does this mean? Where else can it go but away from truth? explain......


chris

godardian

Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooIt makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America, and I think that is very important.

But wouldn't spreading awareness be considered a social accomplishment? And what does that sort of awareness actually result in for the people whose lives are supposedly being conveyed in the music? Doesn't it just result in more negative stereotypes and let the listeners- whoever they might me, though the majority are white and middle-class- off the hook for actually thinking about what might be done?

Believe me, I'm not for censoring anything. But like Spike Lee, I do think the value of gangsta rap is very dubious. I think what Mr. Lee is saying is that for all gangsta rap's braggadocio, it's finally an impotent expression, and may even further the unfair and shameful political and economic impotence of the community it comes from.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Thecowgoooesmooo

QuoteBut wouldn't spreading awareness be considered a social accomplishment?

Yea, see earlier post.


QuoteAnd what does that sort of awareness actually result in for the people whose lives are supposedly being conveyed in the music?

Well, if your talking about the people who are being portrayed in the gangsta rap music, well it gives them something to relate to. And if you were in that minority, it might be important to you.

QuoteDoesn't it just result in more negative stereotypes and let the listeners- whoever they might me, though the majority are white and middle-class- off the hook for actually thinking about what might be done?

Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life. Nothing more, then a real life commentary through beats and lyrics, thats it.

If you took that away, you would just be taking away a voice from a minority community.


chris

SHAFTR

Quote from: Thecowgoooesmooo

Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life.

chris

Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"

Pubrick

Quote from: ThecowgoooesmooDo you care to put anything down of why you agree with Spike? ha....
um, no, i don't feel like justifying my opinion to u.

why don't u ask everyone else? oh that's right, cos u wanna start a fight with me in particular. ha.

thanks for asking, anyway. maybe another time.
under the paving stones.

Thecowgoooesmooo

QuoteThecowgoooesmooo wrote:


Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life.

chris


Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?


No... Because a stereotype is an oversimplified version or image. But real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.


QuoteThecowgoooesmoo wrote:
Do you care to put anything down of why you agree with Spike? ha....

um, no, i don't feel like justifying my opinion to u.

why don't u ask everyone else? oh that's right, cos u wanna start a fight with me in particular. ha.

thanks for asking, anyway. maybe another time.


No I don't want to start a particular fight with you. It was just a simple question, with a simple "Ha..." at the end. Now try to stay on topic, try to add something of substance.


chris

Jeremy Blackman

Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooIt makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America

Like what? I can't believe that gangsta rap, as commercialized and perverted as it is, can convey any real truth.

I think this says it all:

Quote from: godardianit's finally an impotent expression, and may even further the unfair and shameful political and economic impotence of the community it comes from.

Quote from: SHAFTR
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmooo
Negative stereotypes or not, the gangsta rap is just a reflection or commentary of real life.

Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?

Jeremy Blackman

QuoteIsn't stereotype and real life contradictory?


Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooNo... Because a stereotype is an oversimplified version or image. But real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.

Exactly. You just spelled out how stereotypes and real life are contradictory. If gangsta rap is a stereotype, how can it be real life?

Ghostboy

I'm with the majority in this case, but I wouldn't call most current mainstream rap 'gangsta rap.'

I guess gangsta rap first hit the mainstream with NWA, and then with Tupac. I'll argue for the validity of both of them, especially Tupac, because they weren't (at least initially) intent on glorifying the gangsta lifestyle. They were making a statement about life on the streets, etc.

What we have now are these post-gangsta 'artists' who go for the best of both worlds (see the title of 50 Cent's album) They talk about how hardcore they are every now and then, but they also revel in their luxuries. Every other line is about their money, their cars, and all the women they get, but "yo, get this, they're still true to the streets." That's a bunch of bullshit, and I'm sure they know it. Most of them are also shockingly untalented. At least Jay Z, who is talented, doesn't try to pretend anymore.

I'd be curious to hear Spike Lee's thoughts on some of the truly talented hip hop artists that are out there at the moment.

Pubrick

Quote from: GhostboyI'd be curious to hear Spike Lee's thoughts on some of the truly talented hip hop artists that are out there at the moment.
judging from his prior use of Public Enemy, i'd say he's a fan.
under the paving stones.

Jeremy Blackman

Quote from: Ghostboy(see the title of 50 Cent's album)

I heard something on NPR once about how 50 Cent was first being sold as an R&B singer. It was hilarious.

Thecowgoooesmooo

QuoteQuote:
Isn't stereotype and real life contradictory?



Thecowgoooesmooo wrote:
No... Because a stereotype is an oversimplified version or image. But real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.


Exactly. You just spelled out how stereotypes and real life are contradictory. If gangsta rap is a stereotype, how can it be real life?

Blackman... I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say, and I don't really understand a few of these last statements dealing with the word contradictory...

Ok, Im not saying Gangsta rap is a stereotype.... because the rappers that are commenting on the way they grew up, or how the project systems work is real life. It is real.

Like I said before...
QuoteBut real life is not oversimplified or formulaic it is just REAL, real life.

I don't understand how it could be a stereotype... If stereotype is an oversimplified version of something, then how could gangsta rap be a stereotype? I just don't get it...

So my questions for you to answer are...

1) How is gangsta rap a stereotype?

2) Also, could you explain to me what your talking about how real life and stereotypes contradict themselves, and don't use the word contradictory, its becoming repetitive and I think I will maybe understand what in the hell your trying to say if you explain it differently...

Also, can anybody else understand or explain to me what he is trying to tell me?


QuoteThecowgoooesmooo wrote:
It makes people aware of what is going on in certain places in America


Like what? I can't believe that gangsta rap, as commercialized and perverted as it is, can convey any real truth.

Just to make sure we are on the same page... Im curious.. What gangsta rappers are you talking about?... Because currently, gangsta rap is not commercialized and popular in the RAP music scene... Just name a few artists, that come to mind, when you are thinking of this term "gangsta rap"....


chris

freakerdude

Some rap does send a bad image but it's up to the PARENTS to control what their children listen to up to a certain age, which they feel appropriate.

The biggest point being missed here is that the majority of rap consumers are white males in their teens....not African Americans.

So called gangsta rap is an expression of their life experiences. I think 2Pac's is labeled as gangsta but his music has some very important messages. He was and still is the best rap artisit ever and he had a message to get across before he died. If you ask me what the message is, you haven't heard most of his music.
MC Pee Pants

tpfkabi

yeah, what is the definition of gangsta rap?

i hope it doesn't include G-Funk, because my favorite period of rap was 94/95 when Dr Dre, Snoop & Warren G made some really great albums

i'm also guessing Outkast doesn't fit in with this

this is pretty much the extent of rap i like/have liked (well, i did like MC Hammer and VAnilla Ice back in the day)......but i can't stand rap that only focuses on wealth, women & killing

i'm guessing this is what Spike is talking about......the redundant videos with nice cars, girls in bikinis, etc
I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away.

ᾦɐļᵲʊʂ

Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooI dont agree with Spike at all on this one.

Gangsta rap may not be doing any good in your opinion, but it is explaining through an artform what happens and it explains how certain people live their lives. If for example Gangsta rap, didn't exist, then the only examples of this culture you would hear about, would be on the nightly news. That would be a total shame.

Just because you don't enjoy the music, or don't agree with it, dosen't mean it shouldn't be around. It's simply a culture explaining their unique situations through the only media outlet that is available to them. Music.


chris

You bastard. You ruined the trend.

By the way, I agree, as well.
"As a matter of fact I only work with the feeling of something magical, something seemingly significant. And to keep it magical I don't want to know the story involved, I just want the hypnotic effect of it somehow seeming significant without knowing why." - Len Lye