Xixax Film Forum

The Director's Chair => Paul Thomas Anderson => Topic started by: aclockworkjj on May 18, 2003, 02:41:44 AM

Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: aclockworkjj on May 18, 2003, 02:41:44 AM
Anyone else see just how great of a scene this is in PDL?...I mean come on, guards down....we all do shit we regret....and granted this scene exaggerates it a little, but still.....I think there is a lot of truth to it.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 18, 2003, 03:02:51 AM
Oh yeah, and then when he starts to cry... I actually got a little pissed off at the people in the audience who snickered. It was an emotionally naked moment, which you don't see a lot of male characters get. And you definitely weren't expecting it from Adam Sandler.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: The Silver Bullet on May 18, 2003, 04:33:39 AM
I know that I personally connected with it on the level that I knew exactly what he was talking about. To go and tell someone, also. Really quite something.

And what got me was how much I thought, "That is so PTA talking through his characters. That was PTA, not Barry." And that, for me, was the thing that ran throughout the entire film. How much of Anderson was really in it.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: oakmanc234 on May 18, 2003, 05:10:31 AM
I love this scene. A very quiet, mature and saddening scene. This is the point in the flick where you really realise that this guy has problems. It didn't really hit me until after it ended (when Barry's in the supermarket). Thinking back to it makes me think what an upsetting scene it is.

Many people in the cinema thought it was a joke for a moment. Then there was deathly silence.

The scene is genius. This guy reaching out for help from someone he hardly knows, who is less than compassionate. He says he cries sometimes for no reason, then he begins to cry. Sandler's awkward cry in particular was so shamed, the kind of cry where you're trying not to cry, but it just explodes out.

The scene is f***in' genius.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 18, 2003, 11:09:40 AM
Quote from: oakmanc234I love this scene. A very quiet, mature and saddening scene.

Many people in the cinema thought it was a joke for a moment. Then there was deathly silence.

The scene is genius. This guy reaching out for help from someone he hardly knows, who is less than compassionate. He says he cries sometimes for no reason, then he begins to cry. Sandler's awkward cry in particular was so shamed, the kind of cry where you're trying not to cry, but it just explodes out.

Yes, that was exactly how I felt about it. I love how PTA shows how embarrassing not being able to contain your emotions can be... it makes it even more of an emotional experience that way.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: aclockworkjj on May 18, 2003, 11:11:40 AM
being vulnerable isn't always a bad thing....
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: The Silver Bullet on May 18, 2003, 11:14:19 AM
I have to say that I don't think there was anything overly special about the way Sandler cried. It was a pretty run-of-the-mill Adam Sandler comic cry. Normally, that baby act would get a joke. So it [for me] has nothing to do with the "sort of cry" it is [because it isn't a special sort], but what Anderson constructs around it that makes it work. In this case, all he needed to rework an fairly average and as-per-usual Sandler moment was one line, "Sometimes I cry for no reason." The cleverness of the moment is all Anderson, simply because he knows how alter meaning so fluently.

My two, overtly analytical, two cents.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: ©brad on May 18, 2003, 02:51:45 PM
i like the scene a lot, but i do not think its right to punish ppl for laughing a bit during it. i kinda wanted to chuckle for a second. there is a level of humor in the scene, which in a way makes it even more sad.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 18, 2003, 03:01:09 PM
Quote from: cbrad4di like the scene a lot, but i do not think its right to punish ppl for laughing a bit during it. i kinda wanted to chuckle for a second. there is a level of humor in the scene, which in a way makes it even more sad.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't waiting around afterwards in the lobby, pounding my fist into the palm of my hand ominously while glaring at the offenders... it just irritated me. I lived with it. It wasn't like people TALKING during a movie, or anything.

And there is some humor in the scene, "But Barry... I'm a dentist," etc. I just felt that people who were laughing while he was crying was a little insensitive and not really very perceptive to what was going on. And I thought the line, "I don't know... 'cos I don't how other people are" was brilliant, because in my opinion, there's no such thing as "normal," but we all live with the insecurity that somehow we're not, that other people have it figured out and we don't. I loved that. That was very poignant to me.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Sleuth on May 18, 2003, 03:17:04 PM
My one line review of PDL seems relevant in this case

"A great movie in which nearly every second is 40% funny but 60% sad"

peace
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Victor on May 18, 2003, 03:24:49 PM
my favorite blurb for the film was in a tv spot i saw:

A Romantic Comedy on the edge...
On the edge of being romantic.
On the edge of being a comedy.
On the edge...of sanity.


and "I dont like myself sometimes" is my favorite line in the whole movie.

There was this other scene in the script that is so fucking terrificly funny and sad and i hope it makes DVD so I wont spoil it for anyone who hasnt read it but: theres another line like that in the scene, where he goes "I get really sick of myself sometimes". that too, beautiful. yes yes.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Ernie on May 18, 2003, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: oakmanc234
Many people in the cinema thought it was a joke for a moment. Then there was deathly silence.

Same thing at the theatre I saw it at. I was part of the moment. I chuckled for like 2 seconds just at the whole irony of him crying just as he was talking about crying...then realized he was crying for a little longer than I expected (at this point, I shut up really fast)...then he started to cower and stumble behind the wall...and my jaw fucking dropped, I was about to just bawl.

PTA almost made me laugh and then cry in an interval about two seconds...that is fucked. The scene is too good, seriously. The man is a genius the way he set up that scene. If it were suppose to be funny, like if it were in the usual Sandler comedy...it would have cut right after Barry's hands hit his face, right after he starts crying. It would have been intended to be funny. I wouldn't have stopped laughing so suddenly. PTA isn't that simple and unrealistic, he's better than that.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: MrBurgerKing on May 18, 2003, 06:06:47 PM
What makes the scene sadder is that the dentist guy doesn't hesitate to tell Barry's sister about the crying / asking for the therapist. Barry actually makes it worst for himself by letting out his feelings.

Has anyone experienced that kind of "back-stabbing" (I put it in quotes because the dentist's motivations probably were'nt harsh) before?  I'm not talking about going to the drive-through and getting the wrong order, but how about trusting someone who ends up betraying you?

Am I some kind of philosopher?
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: SoNowThen on May 18, 2003, 06:34:45 PM
Quote from: godardian
Quote from: cbrad4di like the scene a lot, but i do not think its right to punish ppl for laughing a bit during it. i kinda wanted to chuckle for a second. there is a level of humor in the scene, which in a way makes it even more sad.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't waiting around afterwards in the lobby, pounding my fist into the palm of my hand ominously while glaring at the offenders... it just irritated me. I lived with it. It wasn't like people TALKING during a movie, or anything.

And there is some humor in the scene, "But Barry... I'm a dentist," etc. I just felt that people who were laughing while he was crying was a little insensitive and not really very perceptive to what was going on. And I thought the line, "I don't know... 'cos I don't how other people are" was brilliant, because in my opinion, there's no such thing as "normal," but we all live with the insecurity that somehow we're not, that other people have it figured out and we don't. I loved that. That was very poignant to me.

I love the scene, but I was also one of those who laughed... loud. When he says he's been crying, then there's a beat, then he starts to cry.... fucking hilarious. I dunno, the 2nd and 3rd times I saw this I found myself laughing all the time. I think PTA meant the whole thing to play funny and serious at the same time. Like a depth thing.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Pedro on May 18, 2003, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: godardian
Quote from: cbrad4di like the scene a lot, but i do not think its right to punish ppl for laughing a bit during it. i kinda wanted to chuckle for a second. there is a level of humor in the scene, which in a way makes it even more sad.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't waiting around afterwards in the lobby, pounding my fist into the palm of my hand ominously while glaring at the offenders... it just irritated me. I lived with it. It wasn't like people TALKING during a movie, or anything.

And there is some humor in the scene, "But Barry... I'm a dentist," etc. I just felt that people who were laughing while he was crying was a little insensitive and not really very perceptive to what was going on. And I thought the line, "I don't know... 'cos I don't how other people are" was brilliant, because in my opinion, there's no such thing as "normal," but we all live with the insecurity that somehow we're not, that other people have it figured out and we don't. I loved that. That was very poignant to me.

I love the scene, but I was also one of those who laughed... loud. When he says he's been crying, then there's a beat, then he starts to cry.... fucking hilarious. I dunno, the 2nd and 3rd times I saw this I found myself laughing all the time. I think PTA meant the whole thing to play funny and serious at the same time. Like a depth thing.

In much of the movie I felt contradicting emotions simultaneously.  It just shows amazing writing.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Redlum on May 18, 2003, 07:24:22 PM
Exactly. Like when he's on the phone to his sister in Hawaii and telling her that she's killing him. That was both funny, sad and triumphant at the same time.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: neatahwanta on May 18, 2003, 08:07:28 PM
The people who laughed during that scene enjoyed the movie...the rest either quietly enjoyed the movie, or hated it.  Its just like when the frog gives its little grunt noise just before it crashes through Jimmy Gator's sunroof window.....I always laugh at that.

Laugh when you want to  :lol: ....cry when you want to.  :cry:
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 18, 2003, 08:11:21 PM
Quote from: neatahwantaThe people who laughed during that scene enjoyed the movie...the rest either quietly enjoyed the movie, or hated it.  Its just like when the frog gives its little grunt noise just before it crashes through Jimmy Gator's sunroof window.....I always laugh at that.

Laugh when you want to  :lol: ....cry when you want to.  :cry:

I really do agree with that in spirit, but... when you're weeping over something someone two rows back is having a hearty laugh at, it's harder than when it's the other way around, don't you think?
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: MrBurgerKing on May 18, 2003, 08:11:38 PM
Are we all on the same note emotionally, is that why we relate to these PTA characters?

Perhaps its the same reason why if you go into a McDonalds its' filled with trailer trash.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: neatahwanta on May 18, 2003, 09:18:54 PM
Quote from: godardianI really do agree with that in spirit, but... when you're weeping over something someone two rows back is having a hearty laugh at, it's harder than when it's the other way around, don't you think?

Hell, I laughed through much of Schindler's List, so you'll have to ask someone else that question.  :?
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: neatahwanta on May 18, 2003, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: MrBurgerKingPerhaps its the same reason why if you go into a McDonalds its' filled with trailer trash.

Good point.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 18, 2003, 09:39:51 PM
Quote from: neatahwanta

Hell, I laughed through much of Schindler's List, so you'll have to ask someone else that question.  :?

Oh, so did I, but... that's a very false movie about the Holocaust (not like Last Days, which was Spielberg's much more relevant contribution to the subject and which did move me to tears at times), whereas I thought PDL struck some very intimate emotional notes that I just wouldn't laugh at.

But... these things are very subjective, laughing/crying. When it comes down it, they're both versions of the exact same thing. So the theory goes.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 18, 2003, 09:41:05 PM
And I meant emotionally false, by the way... don't wanna get into a big can of worms about the veracity of Schindler's List.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Victor on May 18, 2003, 09:49:20 PM
Quote from: MrBurgerKingAre we all on the same note emotionally, is that why we relate to these PTA characters?

Perhaps its the same reason why if you go into a McDonalds its' filled with trailer trash.

mcdonalds is Petey A's favorite restaurant.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: AlguienEstolamiPantalones on May 18, 2003, 09:55:48 PM
Quote from: godardianAnd I meant emotionally false, by the way... don't wanna get into a big can of worms about the veracity of Schindler's List.

this i have to hear , please tell us your views on this ??
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 18, 2003, 10:06:51 PM
Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
Quote from: godardianAnd I meant emotionally false, by the way... don't wanna get into a big can of worms about the veracity of Schindler's List.

this i have to hear , please tell us your views on this ??

Spielberg is generally a much too sentimental director for me, and I found Schindler's List made me laugh like a Seinfeld character. It had nothing to do with the material. The material itself is not, I don't think, false in any way. It's just been interpreted in a way that felt false to me, enough so to make me laugh.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: MrBurgerKing on May 18, 2003, 10:09:03 PM
Quote from: Lester
Quote from: MrBurgerKingAre we all on the same note emotionally, is that why we relate to these PTA characters?

Perhaps its the same reason why if you go into a McDonalds its' filled with trailer trash.

mcdonalds is Petey A's favorite restaurant.

At the risk of getting off topic, I'll copy and paste the response I made in another thread when I heard about PTA's love for McDonalds:

"but you've got to be kidding me! McDonalds? How could anyone lower their standards by that much and eat there? I want to be the downfall of McDonalds. I want them to taste unemployment. I want them to taste fire. I want McDonalds to burn at the stake. I want them to taste a whopper and shoot their faces in. I want McDonalds out of my life, out of my existence. It is not a food place, it is a fat place. Understand? How could anyone lower their existence and order a big mac? How could anyone knock years off their life biting that "burger" and I stress the (")'s. True story, I once dated a real fat woman who ate at McDonalds. I dated her out of pity though, but I eventually made her choose between me and the Big Mac. Yep, I'm single."
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: AlguienEstolamiPantalones on May 18, 2003, 10:10:13 PM
Quote from: godardian
Quote from: SantaClauseWasA BlackMan
Quote from: godardianAnd I meant emotionally false, by the way... don't wanna get into a big can of worms about the veracity of Schindler's List.

this i have to hear , please tell us your views on this ??

Spielberg is generally a much too sentimental director for me, and I found Schindler's List made me laugh like a Seinfeld character. It had nothing to do with the material. The material itself is not, I don't think, false in any way. It's just been interpreted in a way that felt false to me, enough so to make me laugh like a Seinfeld character.

so really he made what went down warm and cuddily ?

who was kramer ralph fienes ?
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: bonanzataz on May 18, 2003, 10:34:35 PM
oh these bj initiated fights with godardian never get old...

(note the sarcasm)


anyway, the scene where he says he's going to fucking kill his sister, i'm in the audience with lincoln center film snobs laughing my ass off and they're all completely silent. i wasn't sure if i was supposed to laugh or not, it made me feel uncomfortable. i can't wait to get the dvd so i can laugh on my own without feeling like an asshole.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: AlguienEstolamiPantalones on May 18, 2003, 10:44:22 PM
yeah i am kind of of sick of them, but i somehow feel i am doing this for the better of film lovers

but if i lose you as a backer well then i might not have any administraters on my side
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Pedro on May 18, 2003, 10:54:52 PM
Quote from: bonanzatazoh these bj initiated fights with godardian never get old...

(note the sarcasm)


anyway, the scene where he says he's going to fucking kill his sister, i'm in the audience with lincoln center film snobs laughing my ass off and they're all completely silent. i wasn't sure if i was supposed to laugh or not, it made me feel uncomfortable. i can't wait to get the dvd so i can laugh on my own without feeling like an asshole.

I loved that feeling of uncomfortableness that the movie gave me.  Made me laugh these nervous, horror movie laughs.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: modage on May 18, 2003, 11:05:03 PM
yeah i went from laughing to very quickly almost tearing up.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: aclockworkjj on May 19, 2003, 12:37:23 AM
Quote from: MrBurgerKingHas anyone experienced that kind of "back-stabbing" (I put it in quotes because the dentist's motivations probably were'nt harsh) before?  I'm not talking about going to the drive-through and getting the wrong order, but how about trusting someone who ends up betraying you?

Am I some kind of philosopher?

I think everyone has...the only way to make sure it doesn't happen....is to never put your trust or faith in someone.  And that's no fun...people need people, and yes....it sucks to put yourself out there....just to get shit on.  Some will say it makes people stronger, but fuck that, those are just the people that deny anyone has ever shit on them.  

Also....my focus with this thread from the start was....yes, the scene as a whole, not just the goofy sob Sandler lets out (the exaggeration), sure, it works too, but it's the writing I was speaking more of...

Pta....shit...that guy is alright....
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: oakmanc234 on May 19, 2003, 05:17:11 AM
I loved how 'PDL' was full of single scenes with mixed emotions, how you aren't sure how to react to it. Its different. The movie has balls.

As for the 'gimme the fuckin' number!' scene, I laughed. Mainly because I was so overjoyed that Barry pretty much gave his sister the big 'FUCK YOU' that she's been asking for.

Same with the yelling competition that he has over the phone with Dean. Barry's: 'Listen to me, what's your name sir! Answer me!', Dean asks his name and Barry proudly screams: 'I'M BARRY EGAN!'. Another bit that made me happy to the point of giggling.

I could go on and on and on about the many great scenes in the flick but I'll save ya'll the torture........
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Alethia on May 19, 2003, 10:17:02 PM
whats this about schindlers list being a "false" movie?
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Alethia on May 19, 2003, 10:19:10 PM
pdl had me laughing at some parts, scared at others, amazed at some, saddened at some, and overjoyed at most (especially the part where he's running through the alleys and shit, so brilliant and funny and scary and sad.  fuckin love pdl.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 20, 2003, 12:21:36 AM
Quote from: ewardwhats this about schindlers list being a "false" movie?

Quote from: godardianAnd I meant emotionally false, by the way...
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: aclockworkjj on May 20, 2003, 09:51:59 AM
How did this turn into a SL thread?
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 20, 2003, 10:02:47 AM
Quote from: aclockworkjjHow did this turn into a SL thread?

It was about the particular things that do or don't make us laugh when it first started, but shouldn't have, sorry...

...PDL and Far from Heaven were my two favorite films of last year. Both were highly stylized, quirky, and not what you would describe as "realistic." But both really touched me, whereas your less fanciful romantic comedies and dramas- your Maid and Manhattans and so on- don't do anything for me. Could it be that a certain level of artifice, not verite, is the surest way to tug at our heartstrings?
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: markums2k on May 20, 2003, 10:07:55 AM
Quote from: ewardwhats this about schindlers list being a "false" movie?

That statement has yet to be fully explained or justified, eward.

Quote from: aclockworkjjHow did this turn into a SL thread?

A humorous, unrelated comment by one member inspired another to question a director's integrity and motivation in a very misguided effort call attention to themselves, it seems.  :?

Anyways, about this business of PDL evoking so many different emotions at any given time.  I don't think that's what it's meant to do...

Sure, the scene where Barry yells at his sister, it's just full of all types of good stuff... but when someone in the audience is crying during a particular scene and someone is laughing, one of those people just aren't getting it.  The scene has gone over their head.

PTA has always wanted certain scenes to make you feel a particular way.  Why would he stop now?  There's a difference between laughing at anything you want to, and understanding the movie.  My two cents.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: SoNowThen on May 20, 2003, 10:09:45 AM
This is a response for Godardian, from one post ago...

Yeah, but PDL is a stylized way to show true, honest emotions. Maid in Manhattan is a bullshit fake-ass fairytale sold to the moronic millions to be a "realistic modern love story". So, I guess we can start creating a new theory about how heavy artifice might be the new natural extension of cinema verite (say, perhaps, realistic acting and dialogue in an artificial situation). Ahhhhh, Uncle Jean would be so proud.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: godardian on May 20, 2003, 10:19:19 AM
Quote from: markums2k
Quote from: ewardwhats this about schindlers list being a "false" movie?

That statement has yet to be fully explained or justified, eward.

Quote from: aclockworkjjHow did this turn into a SL thread?

A humorous, unrelated comment by one member inspired another to question a director's integrity and motivation in a very misguided effort call attention to themselves, it seems.  :?

Not really misguided... I have some pretty strong negative convictions about that particular director, and I was not the one to bring up SL, and if I was going to say I laughed at it, I thought I might mention why. If it must be discussed further, or more "fully explained and justified," I'm certain there's a thread in that director's forum for it.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: neatahwanta on May 20, 2003, 12:26:32 PM
Quote from: aclockworkjjHow did this turn into a SL thread?

I am sorry.  :oops:
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: aclockworkjj on May 20, 2003, 02:50:53 PM
Quote from: SoNowThenMaid in Manhattan is a bullshit fake-ass fairytale sold to the moronic millions to be a "realistic modern love story".

I am guessing it made more money than PDL though, which is sad in a whole other sense...These are always gonna get made.  What sucks about them, is all you have to do is watch the trailer and you know how the story will end (95% of the time)....

....but, with PDL...perfect example...in Hawaii, you have this perfectly set up "romantic morning after scene"....when what do we hear....instead of some worn cheesy ass cliche....we get...."I wanna bite your cheek off"...followed by ..."I wanna punch you in the face"...point being, sure, the plot can be predicable...but the other elements don't need to be.  And what makes me sick is how something so overly predicable, and has been made over and over every 3rd year,  in every aspect can do better than something like PDL....

12:53
Conclusion: Euclid predicts that most people are fuckin' retarded.  

press return.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: chainsmoking insomniac on May 20, 2003, 02:52:34 PM
Sure, the scene where Barry yells at his sister, it's just full of all types of good stuff... but when someone in the audience is crying during a particular scene and someone is laughing, one of those people just aren't getting it.  The scene has gone over their head.

I don't think one of them is necessarily 'not getting it', as you said.  One just might have a 'different' sense of humor and is clearly not affected by the scene as much as the person on a crying jag.  What you're implying is that PTA wants you to feel a certain way, which I just don't think is true. :roll: [/i]
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: Ernie on May 20, 2003, 07:34:45 PM
I was just realizing how small a lot of the parts I was really laughing at were.

I was like, the only one in the theatre laughing out loud when barry called georgia "honey". Where he's like "yeah, your in trouble honey!" I fucking love that so much. That is so unlike him to say. I hope little things like that never get left out. DGG is good at those too. A lot of great filmmaker's are.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: aclockworkjj on May 27, 2003, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: ebeamanI was just realizing how small a lot of the parts I was really laughing at were.

I found myself laughing at pretty much anything that came out of Phil's mouth...I dunno, his whole character was just a riot...like.." Let's see what this little bad boy business man is all about.." (or something along those lines)...  I also laughed and just some of the faces Sandler would make, ex. right after the crying scene, it cuts to him all hyped to find a Healthy choice deal...or else...when he is so amused by the fact pudding can take you places...(then he does his little dance)...
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: oakmanc234 on May 27, 2003, 06:35:14 PM
I liked it how Dean is calling him a 'bad boy businessman' before it cuts straight to Barry making a joke and giggling with the innocence of a 2 year old.
Title: I don't like myself sometimes..
Post by: aclockworkjj on May 29, 2003, 12:21:01 PM
anyone know of a good dentist?