The way to go...?

Started by kotte, October 14, 2003, 05:57:34 PM

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kotte

I´ve been struggling with a shortfilm. I'm wrestling with my gut (vague, I know).

What purpose do you think shorts have, careerwise?

I believe shorts are more of directing exercises than career makers if you know what I mean. But still, you may want to use the short for festivals, getting into schools etc.

What's best:
A quick and clever film in 5 minutes?
or
A longer film (10-25 min) concentrating more on character?

The longer one would cost more and maybe you could use that money to finance a future feature.

This is is alot of rambling but is kind of tearing my mind apart.

ono

Depends.  One of the best shorts ever, Scorsese's The Big Shave, was just a couple minutes long.  Short, sweet, to the point.  A man shaves and cuts himself.  Badly.  That's it.  But there's a lot going on underneath it, either put there by Scorsese or by critics who try to read into it too much.  There's no character development, there's only one character, but still it's a vivid calling card.  And that's what short films should really be: a calling card saying, "Hey, look what I can do!  Hire me!"  You could do this with a longer film, but you'd have to make sure that extra time was warranted.  Just my opinion.

kotte

Oh I so agree with this...but then, PTA's Cigarettes & Coffee is around 25 minutes. My opinion is, it's a little bit long.

Do you know where I can find The Big Shave?

molly

Have you read Raymond Carver's short stories?

ono

I've read some of them.  Raymond Carver is brilliant.

And as for The Big Shave, I don't know where you could find it off the top of my head.  Saw it in an English class about five years ago.  I imagine my university library has it because of that, so you could probably find it at one near you.

SoNowThen

you can probably find it at you local library, where it is packaged with Marty's doc ItalianAmerican. Hence, it will be under the title ItalianAmerican.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Weak2ndAct

As for short films, I would say that if you want attention, do 2 things:
- Keep it short and moving fast
- Be punchy in every way (the style, jokes, story)
The minute you bore someone, they'll turn off the tape.  The 'successful' shorts I've seen never got longer than 10-12 minutes and got right to the point.  I made the mistake of doing a short that was 20 minutes and downright depressing.  I thought the audience would 'respect' what I was going for.  The style was great, but the story was just too bogged down in angst and sucker-punches that made things even worse.

SoNowThen

Hey, I made a short just like that, too!!!

The way I look at it, shorts are my practice for features, so I gotta do them longer (like 15 - 25 min). I hate those fucking short short films that are all cutesy, and basically just an snl skit. I don't see how that proves anything about the filmmaker. But, hey, people probably only want the short and snappy shit, huh? Boy that burns my ass. Oh well, my shorts are for me. I guess I'll need to use a different calling card...


edit - all that being said, my first short was a snappy little 5 min job that got into a festival... I'm such a whore...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ono

I really wanna see some of your stuff, SoNowThen.  You ever gonna get it posted here?

SoNowThen

Mike has the tapes. Soon enough.

I have a sneaking suspicion that most of you folks will think the first one is "cute" or "slightly amusing", and will want to never talk to me again after you see the second one. That seems to be the general consensus...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

ono

Quote from: SoNowThenI have a sneaking suspicion that most of you folks will think the first one is "cute" or "slightly amusing", and will want to never talk to me again after you see the second one. That seems to be the general consensus...
I think people filmmakers who are brave enough to create something that would cause people to never want to talk to them again are the most interesting, promising ones around.  Heh, but if more people thought like I did, we'd start to see some real changes in what kind of films are made, and some real creativity like we've never dreamed was possible.  Too many people hold back, or are censored.  It's the filmmakers who don't who are remembered.

SoNowThen

That's good of you to say. But the quality of the 2nd one is very lacking. I can see past it because it's my story, and it lives and looks totally different in my head, and to me it is like an open wound of festering truth. But with the discerning eye of xixaxers, it will look like a murky little video mess.

Or not. I hope not. I hope it finds love and acceptance here...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

kotte

The thing is, I don't like the 'a man runs out of toilette paper. what does he do'-types of films. I think they're cheap.

That's my thought. I'm trying to figure out something that's more grand in theme but doesn't take up more than 10 minutes of screen time.

pookiethecat

what's your personal myth?  what makes you get up in the morning?  whats your driving truth in your life?  write a story with that in mind.  not necessarily ABOUT your myth/driving truth but the thing that DRIVES what your film's about.  just think of pta.  he makes the same fuckin' movie over and over again.  people are isolated lonely and social outcasts.  coincidence happens. as a result, people are still fucked up but have improved and learned lessons and gained love.  what's his driving myth?  probably that everyone deserves and needs love, no matter how fucked up and weird.  once you have that, the story will be much easier to come up with cuz you already have your heart and emotion done.  
you could write the most frivolous plotline but keep your driving truth in mind with every shot and it will probably have resonance.
i wanna lick 'em.