dialogue with open space

[Sal]

We all know what a royal difficulty it is to obtain solid clean dialogue with booming technique, and the best bet is getting as close to the source as you can.  In framing where it simply cannot be the case, such as when the space above a person is so great that it's surprising they didn't boom from under, I wonder how the crisp dialogue is still achieved. I assume they use lavs that can be hidden on the talent, since you obviously can't see it.  Or when actors are framed on both sides, and the boomman can't go back and forth between them as they talk.  In such cases, is it common to have two shotgun mics to record the dialogue, or do they also stick with hidden lavs?  

Another example I want to bring up, which most here will be familiar with.  When Barry Egan, in PDL, falls after he sees his sister and Lena coming, he yells about cleaning up the floor and continues talking as he makes his way into his office.  Obviously a shotgun mic didn't accompany him through, but it doesn't sound like a lav, either, because the acoustics in his voice become more narrow as he enters the room, and with lavs, it's a typically vacuous, consistent sound.  My only thought is they boomed from within the room to capture the rest of what he was saying.  Sorry if this is getting a bit too specific.

[Ghostboy]

Boom mics and and lavs are the easiest, of course, and most frequently used as far as I know. I'm no sound designer, but I know that on my movie, to get sound in tough places we would use two boom mics -- one on a boom, and one hidden somewhere to pick up additional dialogue that the boom couldn't reach.

I know Robert Altman always uses a lav for each actor, and records each actor to their own audio track.

[TheVoiceOfNick]

I'm no sound designer,

I used to be...

but I know that on my movie, to get sound in tough places we would use two boom mics -- one on a boom, and one hidden somewhere to pick up additional dialogue that the boom couldn't reach.

I know Robert Altman always uses a lav for each actor, and records each actor to their own audio track.

The way to do it is probably to use a lav. For scenes like those in PDL, two sources were probably recorded, then the first was faded into the next. Very simple and effective... of course you need two recorders... like your camera, then a DAT machine (or another camera with a mic).

[ReelHotGames]

Let's also not forget the enormous amount of ADR work that goes on. For long shots especially, sound can go very worng with wireless mics and shotguns / booms. Try LAVs and be prepared to do some dubbing after.

[ono]

Color me dense, but what's a LAV?

[Ghostboy]

It's short for lavalier, and it's a tiny microphone that's clipped onto the performer's lapel area, and  connected to a (usually) wireless transmitter hidden elsewhere on their person.

[ono]

Ah yes, thank you.  Just never heard that word before.  Know a good place where you can buy those?  And other kind of mics, too?

[Sal]

I know Robert Altman always uses a lav for each actor, and records each actor to their own audio track.

Heh, see, I always wondered about that. I love love his dialogue scenes.

[Sal]

Let's also not forget the enormous amount of ADR work that goes on. For long shots especially, sound can go very worng with wireless mics and shotguns / booms. Try LAVs and be prepared to do some dubbing after.

ADR in film usually sucks.  You can always tell.  Fortunately it's something that's part of the discourse when audiences go see a film.  They aren't taken aback by a voice that sounds awkwardly flatter and less spacy than what they heard half a second before, but you can always tell.  I've always asked audiophiles about what they do in those situations, in trying to make the sound more "open" to replicate previous dialogue, but no matter what you do, the best is match EQ levels and ride the bumpy wave out...

[Sal]

Ah yes, thank you.  Just never heard that word before.  Know a good place where you can buy those?  And other kind of mics, too?

bhphoto.com carries the best.  Pricey but reliable.

[Xixax]

Wow. I've never thought about lavs in film. Shows what I know...

I'm guessing that's for tight or distant shots only, right? So they're not visible?

[Ghostboy]

You can rent them, too, if you don't plan on using them often. That's what I do.

They're used for long shots or any type of shot where a boom would be hard to manage, and also for purposes like Altman's.

Also, most ADR in movies isn't noticeable at all...it's usually pretty flawless. I'll point to LOTR and the SW prequels, which both have a massive amount of ADR, as examples.

[Sal]

Also, most ADR in movies isn't noticeable at all...it's usually pretty flawless. I'll point to LOTR and the SW prequels, which both have a massive amount of ADR, as examples.

lol, please do.  I always seem to pick them up. There's even an ADR that irritates me in PDL -- it's the moment the Mattress Man brings in the brothers to discuss "the plan." The shot moves in, he's in the middle of a sentence, we then move away and see the other phone sex operators in the adjacent room, and return back with him grabbing keys for the brothers.  All his dialogue between when we move away and when we return is done in post, probably because he didn't say anything when he went for the keys, or maybe the audio just sounded funky.  The words are rather arbitrary, too, so I think it was because of the former reason. But you can tell, and it is a pretty flawless ADR.