Author Topic: Game of Thrones (spoilers)  (Read 60579 times)

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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #390 on: June 24, 2016, 04:22:29 PM »
+1
Edit: Just posted on the previous page too. :cry:

Re: Fernando. Good call. HBO will fully fund the show one way or another. They can't afford not to.

I think Littlefinger might have actually underestimated Ramsay Bolton's cruelty. He looked sincerely embarrassed and a little ashamed, insofar as he ever experiences those emotions. Seemed to throw him off for a minute. But then (as always) he took advantage of the situation and put himself on the winning side.

His only opportunity for betrayal right now would be to follow through with Cersei's request and assassinate Sansa. There is 0% chance of that happening, for multiple reasons, chiefly that Cersei appears to be significantly less winning than Sansa.

More evidence against a Dany/Jon conflict. Jon has absolutely no interest in conquering Westeros for himself, or even the North — I assume Sansa will rule Winterfell, and Jon will give her as much responsibility as she'll take. Davos pointedly said that Jon is not a king. Even Melisandre no longer believes Jon is necessarily the "prince that was promised."

Ohh... just thought of a new prediction. (Includes a light spoiler from the preview.) We know Davos will confront Melisandre, in front of Jon, about burning Shireen. Things are going to be awkward in Jon's entourage going forward, so doesn't it seem likely that Melisandre will be exiled (perhaps voluntarily)?

Then, maybe she goes on a bit of a wandering quest and learns about Daenerys being her faith's favorite as "the one who was promised." Remember Melisandre (wisely) told Stannis he should drop everything to deal with the white walkers? What if she eventually meets Daenerys and gives her the same advice? Seems like an elegant way to enlighten Dany's camp on this issue, rather than having Varys or Jorah randomly come back with knowledge.

Melisandre could also facilitate the connection between Daenerys and Jon. She surely has to mention what's gone down with him, to demonstrate her bonafides if nothing else.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #391 on: June 25, 2016, 11:51:30 AM »
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Thanks, journalism. The original story basically turns out to be wrong...


HBO Says Brexit Won't Hurt 'Game of Thrones' Production

A cable network always pays its debts.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/24/hbo-says-brexit-wont-hurt-game-of-thrones-production/

“Game of Thrones,” the hit HBO cable TV series that is partly filmed in Northern Ireland, will not suffer due to Britain’s decision to leave the European Union, the cable network said on Friday, aiming to quash speculation that the lavishly produced show would lose EU funding.

Britons voted on Thursday to leave the European Union, a decision that economists and government leaders say clouds growth prospects for the world’s fifth-largest economy and could dim its attraction for investors.

The result could also discourage Hollywood studios and cable networks to film shows and movies in Britain, in part because the country would no longer have access to European subsidies.

The series received support from the EU’s European Regional Development Fund in its early years, HBO confirmed, but the fund has provided no support for the past few seasons.

“We do not anticipate that the result of the EU referendum will have any material effect on HBO producing ‘Game of Thrones,'” the network, a unit of Time Warner, said in a statement.

As results from Britain’s historic referendum came in overnight, speculation spread online that the decision would hurt HBO’s most-watched series, which had as many as 20 million viewers per episode last season.

The show continues to receive funding from the UK, including from Northern Ireland Screen (NIS), which provides government support for local businesses.

NIS issued a statement on Friday saying the organization “does not use monies provided from European-funded programmes.”
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #392 on: June 25, 2016, 10:50:12 PM »
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(Promise this is my last post of the week.)

I think I might have caught a hint supporting the theory of Tyrion's Targaryen ancestry. Could be a stretch, but it's definitely something:

Tyrion (to Theon): "It was complicated for you, I'm sure, growing up at Winterfell. Never quite knowing who you were. [Switch to pointedly isolated shot of Tyrion, attached below.] But then, we all live complicated lives, don't we..."
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Drenk

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #393 on: June 26, 2016, 11:13:22 AM »
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You're overreaching, Jeremy. Tyrion's life is complicated because he's a dwarf born Lannister (or the orther way around...).

I'm excited for the finale! Last week was great to watch, really. But the finale will offer more, I think. It has been a good season, way better than 5, but it needs a great finale.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #394 on: June 26, 2016, 12:35:47 PM »
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Hey, I said it was probably a stretch!

Alone it would mean nothing, but there's been a decent amount of potential hinting that Tyrion is half Targaryen, and this could be another one. Let me find my previous post on this...

The way Tywin was so resentful of him seemed to go beyond his appearance or the fact that his mother died in childbirth. That would make a lot more sense if Tywin knew he wasn't the father.

Found some good evidence here:

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-likelihood-that-Tyrion-Lannister-is-secretly-a-Targaryen

Example from that link. Tywin says this to Tyrion: "You are an ill-made, spiteful little creature, full of envy, lust and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine."

So here, it's obviously not Tyrion saying "I've never fit in, because I know I'm a Targaryen," but it's something.

If nothing else, it could be the writers teasing the fans. It's not one of the most well-known or well-accepted theories, but it's out there.

I agree about this season. I think it's the best one. And Season 5 is surely the weakest.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #395 on: June 26, 2016, 11:45:02 PM »
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Ugh, what an exquisite episode. I was in love with the pacing. And the music... sweet Jesus that music. Everything was so fully realized and so deliciously dispensed. I just kept saying to myself: "Are you really giving this to me right now? Is this really happening? Thank you!"

This is the best episode pair in the show's history, right? Is there a way to make Miguel Sapochnik direct all of them? Does he have a family?

I'll do more gushing this week, but let's get down to the details. First of all, this episode doubled down on playing with time scales. There will surely be complaints, but I think audiences are smart enough to figure things out. Here's how it goes, chronologically:

1. Jaime and Arya with the Freys
2. Kaboom
3. Olenna learns of the event (not seen)
4. Olenna meets Varys at Dorne
5. Varys returns to Mereen (not seen)
6. Dany sets sail

(Unknown: Winterfell, Bran, Sam.)

The main point being, Dany's departure is significantly later than the other events. Which is good, because the Narrow Sea is... well... narrow, and she'll be there soon. I'll see what the podcasts have to say about this and report back. But it does seem like all the pieces are in place for a swift victory. Not only does she have her unbeatable army, she now has the support of Dorne and presumably the Tyrells. Looks like she'll arrive well before the white walkers, too. My guess: The show is telling us to take her victory for granted, and that there are actually more interesting questions. This is a semi-subversion that very likely solves the dilemma we talked about earlier (that "will she win" can't be the focus). Seems like they're stacking things so dramatically in her favor that we're not meant to have any doubt.

Circling back to my other point... Since Dany's events are last, and Cersei's coup takes place much earlier, I hope we'll get to see enough of Cersei's rule before her world is rocked.

I'm kind of shocked that Littlefinger showed his cards like that. His plan is simply incompatible with everything. What if love does him in? Shouldn't Arya take care of him? Either way, the Starks need to have some serious eyes on that dude.

Isn't it a bit ominous in retrospect that Arya eyed Jaime so aggressively? Or was she only playing the part?

The big question mark: What about Euron Greyjoy? Battle at sea yet to come?

And now to revisit my predictions and talk to myself for a minute. Strange, I couldn't find my wrong predictions, so these will have to do. I'll include some unfulfilled predictions that look more promising now.

We know Davos will confront Melisandre, in front of Jon, about burning Shireen. Things are going to be awkward in Jon's entourage going forward, so doesn't it seem likely that Melisandre will be exiled (perhaps voluntarily)?

Then, maybe she goes on a bit of a wandering quest and learns about Daenerys being her faith's favorite as "the one who was promised." Remember Melisandre (wisely) told Stannis he should drop everything to deal with the white walkers? What if she eventually meets Daenerys and gives her the same advice? Seems like an elegant way to enlighten Dany's camp on this issue, rather than having Varys or Jorah randomly come back with knowledge.

Melisandre is currently riding south, so this seriously might actually happen.

I feel more confident now that Westeros could end up with a total matriarchy. Daenerys, Sansa, and Yara. Maybe that’s what “breaking the wheel” means.

Add Elia Martell and Olenna Tyrell to that list. It's getting long, isn't it? Although Olenna and Sansa might be slightly in the background. I do think it's likely that Jon dies fighting the white walkers, leaving Sansa to rule after all.

Oh and we also got Daenerys saying that women will rule after her. I guess I should have led with that.

I think it's equally plausible that Littlefinger's chain of power plays might be coming to a natural end. Who even trusts him anymore? Not Sansa. Not any other Starks. Not Varys. Not Royce. Not the Lannisters, really. (I recall Cersei, not even the greatest of minds, being very skeptical in their last meeting.) The only person who definitely trusts him is a mentally deficient boy.
I think it's in [Littlefinger's] immediate self-interest to put his betrayal spree on hold and earn the Starks' trust for a minute. Obviously what he did in this ep was the first step in that direction. Of course he will try to cause more chaos... but wouldn't it be fun to see Sansa get one step ahead of him?

I think this is the first time we've seen him feeling exposed and a bit lost, despite his massive victory. Sansa meanwhile has never been more powerful or lucid.

Here's the logic problem for me right now, though. Presumably part of Margaery's plan is conceive a boy with Tommen. And the conventional wisdom is that he'll die by the end of this season. How can she be sure that's happened in that amount of time? Also, how can she possibly execute her plan before Loras is forced to confess? I'm seeing a long-term plan with short-term obstacles... or maybe I'm not seeing it at all.

Turns out she was playing with fire after all.

[King's Landing] As Aegon said in Bran's vision, burn them all. Seriously. Margaery included.

I was talking about dragonfire. Still, seems a bit harsh in retrospect.  :(

[Arya leaving the Faceless Men] Were the series ending right now, sure it would be a pointless detour. But this is definitely setting up something important, maybe crucially important . . .

In terms of what's next: "I am Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home" is a pretty strong indication of her sense of purpose. The question is, will she actually go home to Winterfell and be like "hey guys I'm a super assassin now, who do y'all need offed?" Or will she continue on her rogue's path, sowing death and chaos among the Starks' enemies?

Furthermore, does the magic of putting on a face carry with her? Does she actually have that power going forward? That hasn't been made clear yet — or if it was, I don't recall. (Since Jaqen tells her "a girl is finally no one," I'm leaning towards yes.) If she gets to keep that, she'll be absolutely unstoppable.

As Jon Brion might say, here we go.
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Lottery

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #396 on: June 27, 2016, 02:01:17 AM »
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Noice. All thought I wish the last scene wasn't the sailing one. It should have been the Night's King looking all evil or something.

Fernando

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #397 on: June 27, 2016, 01:25:39 PM »
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Dany's departure is significantly later than the other events. Which is good, because the Narrow Sea is... well... narrow, and she'll be there soon.

Yes it’s narrow but they are at the southeastern part of the continent, as soon as the episode ended I looked up the map of Westeros and Dorne while is not close is the natural first stop on their way to King’s Landing, so the timeline works for me too.

About the finale…DAMN! The final tally of death characters is the highest ever I think, let’s see:
Walder Frey and two sons (I know the sons were only seen two or three times), Kevan, Lancel and Tommen Lannister, Mace, Loras and Margaery Tyrell, Pycelle and the Sparrow.

Cersei.
Ok I didn’t see that coming, I mean the outcome of the explosion, she practically wiped out House Tyrell leaving only Oleanna, meanwhile Tommen couldn’t take it and jumped to his death, Cersei actually took it a little too calm, reminded me the way Sansa took Rickon’s. It’ll be interesting what is next for her and Jamie.

I loved that Margaery was the only one to see that something was off and the Sparrow's arrogance ended up killing all of them.

The Septa scene was great, Cersei gloating all over her, poor woman The Mountain will have a field day with her, I actually would have liked more if she ended up with Qyburn, he's famous for experimenting with the living.


I'll have more later.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #398 on: June 27, 2016, 01:41:33 PM »
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Yes it’s narrow but they are at the southeastern part of the continent, as soon as the episode ended I looked up the map of Westeros and Dorne while is not close is the natural first stop on their way to King’s Landing, so the timeline works for me too.

You're totally right. I was misled by a podcast and didn't check. I should look at the maps. So yeah, Mereen is actually waaay far away. (And it looks like they will inevitably cross paths with Euron.) Not only is Dany's departure the last event chronologically, but it's going to be a long journey. Plenty of time for things to transpire in Westeros before she arrives.

meanwhile Tommen couldn’t take it and jumped to his death, Cersei actually took it a little too calm, reminded me the way Sansa took Rickon’s. It’ll be interesting what is next for her and Jamie.

She believed Tommen's death was inevitable. I wonder if at least part of her knew that he would end it himself. She could have immediately rushed to comfort and protect him, but she decidedly did not.
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Sleepless

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #399 on: June 28, 2016, 11:22:37 AM »
+1
From the opening scene playing with our expectations, then flipping some major changes on us, this was another fantastic episode from start to finish. So Cersei is queen now. She'll have a chance to rule for a while, getting her moment in the spotlight (it feels like it's been ages) before ultimately, inevitably, being destroyed when Dany comes to town. That one scene almost made up for a season of tediousness for Arya. Hand of the Queen. Boats and dragons and Dothraki.

This is the best episode pair in the show's history, right? Is there a way to make Miguel Sapochnik direct all of them? Does he have a family?

Agree with this sentiment, but there's a lot to be said for the writing in these two too. Hopefully they'll aspire to match the high bar set on these two for the remaining 13.

Also, this came to my attention since Sunday:


Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #400 on: June 28, 2016, 04:29:44 PM »
+1
Good stuff. I'm sure a rewatch of the show would reveal all kinds of foreshadowing.

In other news, people are really starting to jump on my Stark/Targaryen alliance bandwagon. (Yes, it's mine.)

Beyond all the things I've said, there was some potential foreshadowing in the finale. Daenerys and Tyrion will be keeping their eyes peeled for a strategic marriage that could cement a crucial alliance. Well, okay then, seeing as the Tyrells, Martells, and Greyjoys are firm allies (you can see all their ships already sailing with Daenerys), who is even left... but the North?

I'm a little dubious about an actual Jon/Dany marriage, because there might not be an appetite for more incest on the show (although Jon/Sansa shippers would disagree). There are numerous other reasons for them to ally, mainly the big one that I started with — she needs Jon to secure the North, and Jon needs her to defeat the white walkers. As a bonus, Melisandre, Jorah, and Sam are out there right now, ready to serve as potential chess pieces to link the two camps.

Given that very clear path, what could possibly stand in the way of the Stark/Tagaryen alliance? There are a couple hurdles. (But we must have some obstacles for good storytelling, right?)

The Targaryens are fairly disliked in the North. Robert's Rebellion was not even that long ago. There are ways past this, though. Sansa and Jon should be easily convinced. All they need is the most basic of sales pitches — "my father was evil, I'm going to break the wheel," etc. And like I said before, Sansa's reaction will be something like this: "King's Landing? Cersei? Yes, please. Here, take these dogs. Do you need to leave something standing, or can you burn it all to the ground? Wait, bring me too, I need to watch this."

And I still think the Tyrion/Sansa connection could play out in a fascinating way. Tyrion was the only powerful man in a position to exploit her who decisively chose not to. (He even became a bit sweet and protective of Sansa, for example trying to take her away from the Purple Wedding when he saw the performance was upsetting her.) Tyrion has since turned against her enemies (the Lannisters) in the most dramatic ways imaginable. I mean... if I were Sansa, I'd be pretty thrilled about all of this.

The Northerners in general might be harder to convince. But Jon happens to have experience convincing them to accept unconventional allies. An argument that will become suddenly more convincing when the dead arrive. I imagine Jon's true parentage, once Bran tells him, will have to be kept a secret for a while so as not to complicate things politically. Or maybe it could be an asset in his PR campaign — the Starks and Targaryens are already united, in Jon, and you all love Jon, right?

Another likely complication — While Melisandre may convince Dany to join the fight against the white walkers, her presence would surely add some awkwardness and leave a bad taste. But... compromises.

I never considered before this week that Jaime might become yet another enemy of Cersei and King's Landing. But it's actually possible now.

Lots more support in this episode for my "Littlefinger is running out of plays and might actually lose" opinion. Consider the rivalry between him and Varys. Where is Varys right now? On a ship, crossing the narrow sea with the most powerful people in the world. Where is Littlefinger right now? Literally brooding in a corner.

What concerns me is that we will have at least 13 more episodes. Which leaves enough time for things to flip again, however insane and unexpected (and ultimately disappointing) that would be.
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Fernando

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #401 on: June 28, 2016, 05:44:38 PM »
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The one thing I see to get in the way, even before she takes the throne, between a Stark/Targaryen alliance is that Jon right now is The King of the North, I don't know how Dany would take that, I actually think that title will be a huge pain in the ass but...

It will probably work out because on Dany's camp the Starks have true friends like Tyrion who can vouch for both Sansa and Jon, Varys who dealt with Ned and knows Sansa, and obviously Theon who lived with them a good part of his life and knows the horrors they have lived, even Oleanna can vouch for Sansa too.


I haven't even gush about the death I enjoyed more, Arya killing Walder fucking Frey, that was beautiful and unexpected, I suspected that he would die but not that Arya would kill him in such a great sick way, letting him know he just ate his sons, haha.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #402 on: June 28, 2016, 06:21:36 PM »
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Ah, good call, I didn't realize that Dany has four people who can vouch for Sansa. Theon might actually be the most vocal, considering their very recent experiences together.

I wonder what Theon would say about Jon; I don't remember their interactions. Nor do I remember Tyrion and Jon. If Bran is in the mix by then, he'll be like "oh hey, it's Tyrion, the nice dwarf who made me a saddle!"

Anyway, yeah, this goes way beyond the two houses having common enemies. They're already linked by virtue of the wideness of Dany's coalition.

"King in the North" is, I think, a title that has a very specific political/military meaning in this moment. Once Daenerys arrives, that context is sort of wiped clean.

Daenerys would be a fool not to take advantage of the incredible loyalty the Starks have in the North. (She can't be interested in scorching a bunch of northerners while trying to win hearts and minds.) Considering she's okay with leaving the Iron Islands semi-independent, the North by comparison is a dream scenario for her. You're dealing with this super honorable house with two leaders who are decidedly not power-hungry, who are not raping or pillaging anyone, who yearn for an end to the chaos of Westeros even more than Daenerys does.
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Fernando

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #403 on: June 28, 2016, 08:34:44 PM »
+1
I wonder what Theon would say about Jon; I don't remember their interactions. Nor do I remember Tyrion and Jon. If Bran is in the mix by then, he'll be like "oh hey, it's Tyrion, the nice dwarf who made me a saddle!"

Theon didn't interact much in the show with Jon but he lived with him years so we have to assume, as for Tyrion, remember they go together to Castle Black, Tyrion says his great phrase "All dwarfs are bastards at their fathers eye" first time they meet and on their trip they bond, even at Castle Black he defends Jon from his brothers when he beat them while training.

Daenerys would be a fool not to take advantage of the incredible loyalty the Starks have in the North. (She can't be interested in scorching a bunch of northerners while trying to win hearts and minds.) Considering she's okay with leaving the Iron Islands semi-independent, the North by comparison is a dream scenario for her. You're dealing with this super honorable house with two leaders who are decidedly not power-hungry who are not raping or pillaging anyone, who yearn for an end to the chaos of Westeros even more than Daenerys does..

Agree, that sounds like the logical move to make, I just wonder how they will get to that point, because by that time she has to be Queen, and while Dany does that, what will be happening at Winterfell?

Lottery

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #404 on: June 28, 2016, 10:39:20 PM »
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2 seasons left. I think that the joined forces of Daenerys and Jon is likely if a bit predictable. I'm wondering if they're gonna be at odds until some significant moment where the WWs appear and mess things up real bad and take a couple of important characters with them.
I think there needs to be another significant force of evil- Cersei doesn't count because it seems that Daenerys will be able to wipe her out with ease, also literally no one likes Cersei anymore except Qyburn and Zombie Clegane. Honestly, it wouldn't make sense for her to survive very long, she only has enemies now. Jamie is the biggest threat because he's the closest to her and was having 'Nam flashbacks to the Mad King in their last scene.

Euron maybe as the next big threat? He's been a bit of a joke so far but apparently in the books, he's shaping up to be a horrifically evil and powerful character. This season was a housekeeping season for the most part and they've tied up a lot of loose ends.

It would be pretty crazy if the WWs weren't the final bad guys and Euron or Mad Queen Daenerys end up as the final villains (kind of Breaking Badish that way).

 

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