Author Topic: Game of Thrones (spoilers)  (Read 65448 times)

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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #345 on: June 01, 2016, 02:39:04 PM »
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I watched that conversation (J&W) again and 'she has a point' isn't mentioned, did that happen in another episode?

Yeah, that happened last week. The Waif says to Arya "you'll never be one of us" and Jaqen adds "she has a point." Then he walks into the other room and explains that the faceless men were poor, they founded Braavos, etc.

Speaking of which, who would want to live in Braavos? At its center is this unaccountable death cult who could be hired at any time to assassinate you.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #346 on: June 05, 2016, 11:19:05 PM »
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Margaery is truly next-level. It's actually a shame that she's going to lose King's Landing in the end. Maybe she escapes and hooks up with Littlefinger.

I just saw a theory that she will try to seduce the High Septon. Wouldn't that be nuts? If she could actually do that, it might work. I wonder what her time scale is; I imagine her subterfuge needs to be carried out before Loras confesses. She absolutely intends to get Tommen killed, right? What do people think she's planning?

Generally loved the episode. I'm completely and utterly under the show's spell this season. I felt physical pain when I saw the episode was ending in 20 minutes.

That's all for now, but I'm sure I'll have more to say this week.

Quibbles:

- The director of this episode needs to learn how to have people interrupt each other. Rule #1, do not have the first speaker trail off before they get interrupted. You failed before we even got to Rule #2.

- Arya getting stabbed has very little impact, because there is absolutely no chance she's dying right now.
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Lottery

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #347 on: June 06, 2016, 08:04:26 AM »
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Margaery is truly next-level. It's actually a shame that she's going to lose King's Landing in the end. Maybe she escapes and hooks up with Littlefinger.

I just saw a theory that she will try to seduce the High Septon. Wouldn't that be nuts? If she could actually do that, it might work. I wonder what her time scale is; I imagine her subterfuge needs to be carried out before Loras confesses. She absolutely intends to get Tommen killed, right? What do people think she's planning?

It would pretty crushing/awesome if High Sparrow never believed her at all in the first place and just wants to see where she's going with her plan- and in the end he reveals that he knew her game from the start and wipes her out and the other Tyrells.

I'm not sure she intends to kill Tommen. I definitely think she wants High Sparrow killed and his troops rendered powerless.
I think she wants a situation where her family is safe and she and Tommen rule without any influence from High Sparrow or any remaining Lannisters. She can easily manipulate Tommen so in this scenario, she would technically be the most powerful person in Westeros. Pretty fair endgame for her.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #348 on: June 07, 2016, 01:10:53 PM »
+1
I've seen a few people missing this, so I'll throw it in. The Tyrell sigil is a rose, and their house words are "growing stronger." So the meaning of Margaery's note was crystal clear: hang in there, I have a plan, and I'm doing it for the Tyrells. The show also tipped us off that she was 100% sincere, because she almost cried when saying goodbye to Olenna.

Here's the logic problem for me right now, though. Presumably part of Margaery's plan is conceive a boy with Tommen. And the conventional wisdom is that he'll die by the end of this season. How can she be sure that's happened in that amount of time? Also, how can she possibly execute her plan before Loras is forced to confess? I'm seeing a long-term plan with short-term obstacles... or maybe I'm not seeing it at all.

Margaery seducing the High Septon is legitimately one of her best options although that would be so difficult to pull off that if she does, we should just declare her the winner of the whole game of thrones.

Her best play is to disgrace or delegitimize the High Septon in some way. So I guess this is my prediction. Margaery first leverages her popularity and her reputation as a champion of the people. Maybe she starts an initiative to help the poor, to butter them up. Then, she exposes a financial or moral scandal within the church. It could be a discovery, but it's more likely that she frames them. For example, she could tearfully reveal to Tommen that the High Septon sexually assaulted her, and/or that she saw him assault Loras or something. That could then be revealed in the public square, with the king at her side, and the people would physically support them in removing the church from power.
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Fernando

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #349 on: June 07, 2016, 11:45:21 PM »
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Margaery
Her story got really interesting, she's playing the long con and probably will work, but, like you said if the Sparrow is on her this will blow up on her (their) faces beautifully.

I didn't get what that rose meant, so...of those theories I don't see Tommen getting killed by Tyrell hands, and if he does and even if she's pregnant, what is the protocol here? There are no more Baratheons to take the throne, so, would her uncle Kevan rules until the baby is born? and it has to be a boy or else they're fucked...

While i like your theory of the Septon being tempted by Margaery, I also don't see him falling for that play.

As for your prediction it sounds good, but I wonder if with three episodes left there's enough time to see an outcome.

Cersei vs Queen of Thorns
This was my favorite scene of the episode, I even felt bad for Cersei, I want her to have at least one more triumph, but it seems that whatever she does she won't win in the end.


Sansa
She's writing Littlefinger right? They are way too short on men and he already offered and they are running out of houses to support them.

Arya
I'm pretty confident that she will live, and yes that stabbing scene didn't have a huge impact.


The Hound
He lives! Who killed all those people? The brotherhood? That doesn't make sense, they were harmless. This story doesn't make much sense to me, we'll see where they take the hound.

Spoilery speculation, there's talk that the Hound could be the one that fights his brother, but how will he get there? also he's wanted for treason so...

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #350 on: June 10, 2016, 11:35:34 AM »
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The season finale is 69 minutes long, which will technically be the longest GoT episode to date.

Re: Fernando

I'm starting to think Tommen will survive this season, because (1) Margaery conceiving a male heir with Tommen is too important and (2) Tommen is still useful to her as a chess piece. But that all supposes that things will go her way.

Yes, we're supposed to understand that the Brotherhood Without Banners maybe even just those 3 guys killed those people. This apparently suggests that the Brotherhood has become corrupt, because they used to protect the "small folk," right? Or they're under the command of a very cold-hearted new leader.

I'm also convinced that Sansa is enlisting Littlefinger's help. I would have preferred him riding in without permission to save the day, but I guess that's already been done by Stannis.

There are some very wacky theories about Arya right now. One is that the Arya we saw is actually Jaqen, and that the Waif failed his test rather spectacularly (twisting the knife etc.). He will then enlist Arya to kill the Waif. Not sure I believe this, but it's interesting.

And now, the craziest theory I've heard all season: When Qyburn reanimated the Mountain, he used Joffrey's head. This would explain his purple face and blue eyes. Of course if that's true, it must be revealed to Cersei at some point in the most horrifying way.
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RegularKarate

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #351 on: June 10, 2016, 04:58:03 PM »
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And now, the craziest theory I've heard all season: When Qyburn reanimated the Mountain, he used Joffrey's head. This would explain his purple face and blue eyes. Of course if that's true, it must be revealed to Cersei at some point in the most horrifying way.

This is bonkers. Joffrey's head wouldn't be that big even if you stuffed FOUR cabbages into it.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #352 on: June 10, 2016, 05:25:59 PM »
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I dunno, poisoned heads can get very bloated.
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Tictacbk

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #353 on: June 10, 2016, 07:27:42 PM »
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My god that would be terrifying.

Fernando

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #354 on: June 11, 2016, 09:56:22 PM »
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That Joffrey theory is crazy, the show hasn't made any allusions that it could happen, also Qyburn isn't that evil on the show and he seems to really like Cersei, so no way it will happen but if it does, it will be the greatest reveal ever and Cersei would certainly loose her mind.

There are some very wacky theories about Arya right now. One is that the Arya we saw is actually Jaqen, and that the Waif failed his test rather spectacularly (twisting the knife etc.). He will then enlist Arya to kill the Waif. Not sure I believe this, but it's interesting.

That would be amazing, but I really don't have any clue how and who will save her, only that it will happen.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #355 on: June 12, 2016, 11:00:04 PM »
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Alright, so the end of Arya's faceless arc didn't get weird. They exercised a lot of artistic license letting her survive the severe gut wound (did the actress patch up her intestines?), but otherwise it followed the most logical and straightforward path, which is probably for the best.

You can go further with this. "She has a point" could be slyly referring to Needle. "Shame... a girl has many gifts" could be referring (in disappointment) to the Waif, not Arya.

Maybe Jaqen also simply wants to see who is the superior assassin. Although even when Arya inevitably wins, he'll need a reason to let her go. The fact that a face has been added to the hall either way (paraphrasing Jaqen) might be enough.

^ I think that turned out to be true. Jaqen did not seem especially surprised if he had any emotion at all, it was delight. Side note: it was brilliant how the Waif was so excited running after Arya, then at the end she looked sad the chase was over.

This episode was so much fun. Everything with Jaime and Brienne, Podrich and Bronn, the Hound and the brotherhood, the Mountain and that poor headless man. I was once again dreading the end of the episode. Just wanted to live in this world forever.

The politics feel just as compelling as the action right now. Everything that happened at Riverrun was fascinating and illuminated how hierarchies and titles can lead to very absurd results.

Is it just me, or was this episode visually striking in a very satisfying and meaningful way? That opening close-up of the actress. That shot of Tommen walking away from the throne. The cramped feeling of the Mountain/faith confrontation. That perfectly-framed overhead shot of Arya tumbling down the stairs with oranges and apples.

In retrospect, it seems inevitable that the Faith would end trials by combat. In addition to giving them the edge over Cersei, this also brings the justice system more in line with their style.

So, the rumor. To begin, here's a transcript of that part:

- Your grace. That old rumor you told me about. My little birds investigated.
- And? Is it just a rumor, or something more?
- More. Much more.

"Old rumor" is the giveaway. It has to be about Aerys's hidden caches of wildfire. We've already seen them in Bran's vision. And Jaime, less than 10 minutes later, says this of Catelyn and Cersei: "They'd do anything to save their babies: start a war, burn cities to ash..." I just wonder who would actually deploy the wildfire. The spy kids?

Ideally, her effort should be unsuccessful. Yes, it would weaken King's Landing for the taking, but they probably need that wildfire to defeat the White Walkers. So can Margaery stop her somehow?

As for Mereen... Doesn't this seem like the absolute ideal result? The slavers are bringing their forces to Daenerys, so she can conveniently defeat them once and for all. (Unfortunately, lacking a navy, it looks like they'll have to wait for the attackers to get off the boats before they can actually engage.)

Varys heading off to find ships is veeeery interesting. He's obviously going to the Iron Islands. So, a prediction. Yara & Theon bring ships, Daenerys accepts. Varys brings the rest of the ships and Euron Greyjoy. He will of course be furious that Yara & Theon have already formed the alliance, but surely he'll have anticipated that and come up with some sort of plan. Yara will have warned Dany about Euron, right? So his plan fails, as does his marriage proposal. Daenerys takes his ships.

Man, she's going to have so many ships. Yara's ships, Euron's brand new ships, and the slavers' ships, presumably.
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polkablues

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #356 on: June 13, 2016, 12:26:50 AM »
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I'm generally pleased by the resolution of the Faceless Men storyline, but I was really hoping there would be some crafty explanation for why Arya was acting so insanely reckless and oblivious just prior to her assassination attempt, and not, as turns out to be the case, that the writers just decided she should suddenly be reckless and oblivious even though she knows there's a goddamn ninja death cult with a bounty on her head (or face, as the case may be). I can accept a lot of things in fiction right up to the point where a character acts in a way that contradicts our own extensive understanding of the character. There are a thousand ways they could have put her on that bridge without resorting to making the character suddenly and inexplicably dumb.
Now you're in the *spoiler* place.

Lottery

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #357 on: June 13, 2016, 02:36:35 AM »
+1
I never cared for the Faceless Men component of Arya's storyline and I was less than satisfied with the conclusion. Apart from the bizarre beahvior that lead to her the stabbing I'm struggling with her swift recovery, her parkour skills and then the actual conclusion with Jaquen. Was it...supposed to lead somewhere worthwhile? It would have made sense if she ended up some heartless faceless ninja person but she outright defies it and plans to go home. It just seems like a pointless detour. Will the faceless dudes ever turn up again or what? What was truly imparted on Arya except 'nah, this lifestyle isn't for me'?
At least now I know that The Waif would make for a really good Terminator.

Riverrun was quite good and a teensy bit disappointing. Besides the whole Jaimie still in love with Cersei thing, we saw some pretty good character work/acting from all the important players. It is satisfying to see Jaimie kinda moving forward with his character (patiently waiting until he finally severs ties with Cersei). Pretty disappointed by the Blackfish's conclusion even though he would go out fighting.
Shoutout to the dude who plays Edmure, he was a highlight.

That joke scene in Mereen was painful. Bloody hell, it's so upsetting to see Tyrion get sucked further into the Daenerys boredom-spiral. And now Varys is gone which makes it worse. I hope that Theon and Yara can inject some life into that storyline. To me, Theon/Alfie Allen is one of the best things about the show.

Favourite part (beside's Jaimie's negotiations) was The Hound meeting up with The Brotherhood. Love the idea of him joining up and heading up north to fight the WWs. Cleganebowl be damned.

I reckon Cersei's gonna use hidden wildfire and challenge High Sparrow/Tommen, but then her scheme will backfire and a bunch of people will die and King's Landing will end up in a nasty state.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #358 on: June 13, 2016, 12:42:27 PM »
+1
I agree with Polka; Arya's obliviousness while ostensibly being "on the run" was probably this season's major misstep. However, I thought the way it ended was totally fine...

Was it...supposed to lead somewhere worthwhile? It would have made sense if she ended up some heartless faceless ninja person but she outright defies it and plans to go home. It just seems like a pointless detour. Will the faceless dudes ever turn up again or what? What was truly imparted on Arya except 'nah, this lifestyle isn't for me'?

Were the series ending right now, sure it would be a pointless detour. But this is definitely setting up something important, maybe crucially important.

She hasn't made a reversal at all. Like I was saying before, Arya got what she needed, assassin training. That's all she ever wanted from Jaqen, and she got it. (And she left on good terms, because a face was added to the wall "either way," which Jaqen himself predicted.) She was never interested in the god of death or becoming an automaton. Arya kills for reasons; that's her thing.

In terms of what's next: "I am Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home" is a pretty strong indication of her sense of purpose. The question is, will she actually go home to Winterfell and be like "hey guys I'm a super assassin now, who do y'all need offed?" Or will she continue on her rogue's path, sowing death and chaos among the Starks' enemies?

Furthermore, does the magic of putting on a face carry with her? Does she actually have that power going forward? That hasn't been made clear yet or if it was, I don't recall. (Since Jaqen tells her "a girl is finally no one," I'm leaning towards yes.) If she gets to keep that, she'll be absolutely unstoppable. If not, she can still kill dudes in the dark real good.

That joke scene in Mereen was painful. Bloody hell, it's so upsetting to see Tyrion get sucked further into the Daenerys boredom-spiral. And now Varys is gone which makes it worse.

I think that was the point, though. These people are from such vastly different cultures, and they haven't really done battle together or anything, so forming a bond takes a reeeaally long time. (And to be fair, he made significant progress!) As savvy and charismatic as Tyrion is (or thinks he is), they are all a bit lost without Daenerys. There's nothing to center them. Her arrival was so desperately welcome at the end of that scene, which seems to be what they were going for.

But you're right, Tyrion has yet to shine as Daenerys's advisor. And he's weaker without Varys. So that's not great. I have patience, though. Surely his instinct for military tactics (which is legitimately sharp and actually proven) will come into play.
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Lottery

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Re: Game of Thrones (spoilers)
« Reply #359 on: June 13, 2016, 06:58:50 PM »
+1
Beyond her getting elite assassin skills, the payoff just seems so underwhelming- especially considering the amount of time that was spent on that particular storyline. I'm happy that she reaffirmed her identity but I'm still pretty displeased with how things were handled. I'm hoping that the consequences of this storyline will gradually manifest itself in the coming seasons- with Jaquen's final 'a girl is finally no one etc' having a meaning that she doesn't understand yet. But I'm not holding my breath.

I think that was the point, though. These people are from such vastly different cultures, and they haven't really done battle together or anything, so forming a bond takes a reeeaally long time. (And to be fair, he made significant progress!) As savvy and charismatic as Tyrion is (or thinks he is), they are all a bit lost without Daenerys. There's nothing to center them. Her arrival was so desperately welcome at the end of that scene, which seems to be what they were going for.

Yeah, I thought that the scene was attempting to bring the three together- I swear they've already demonstrated their awkward dynamic before in a similar manner in a previous scene. But I think the scene was supposed to be almost heartwarming (by the end) but I was left cringing instead. Probably just demonstrating some sort of human connection before killing 1 of the 3 off.
Tyrion has had a dull season. He's a superb character but he definitely becomes stagnant without a constantly moving world/conflict. Fairly realistic depiction of a depressed alcoholic though.

 

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