Xixax Film Forum

The Director's Chair => Paul Thomas Anderson => Topic started by: depooter on April 27, 2009, 06:14:53 PM

Title: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: depooter on April 27, 2009, 06:14:53 PM
According to thedigitalbits.com, Warner will be releasing Magnolia and Boogie Nights on Blu-ray before the end of the year...this is great news!
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on April 27, 2009, 06:31:43 PM
That is fantastic news.   :yabbse-smiley:  About damn time!
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: SiliasRuby on April 28, 2009, 09:27:54 AM
Yipppppeeeee!
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: hedwig on May 05, 2009, 09:26:11 PM
my kleptomania has been awakened.  :bravo:
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: theyarelegion on July 20, 2009, 02:01:03 PM
blu-ray release date for boogie nights/magnolia
source: cigarettes and red vines

UK retailer play.com is listing magnolia and boogie nights as releasing on blu-ray october 19th, 2009. their cover art appears to have been faked, as indicated by a message that states 'artwork to be confirmed'. while the date is legit sounding to us, play.com's pre-order price is conspicuously low for blu-ray — £11.99 is generally the standard for a brand new dvd. don't throw away your beaten up cardboard dvd slipcases just yet — there's no word on what special features will or won't get carried over.

here are play.com's listings for magnolia (http://www.play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/4-/10852794/Magnolia/Product.html) and boogie nights (http://www.play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/4-/10852805/Boogie-Nights/Product.html).

Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '10
Post by: MacGuffin on September 21, 2009, 03:57:08 PM
From The Digital Bits:

Warner has just officially announced the Blu-ray Disc release of another New Line catalog title... Paul Thomas Anderson's Magnolia on 1/19/10 (SRP $28.99). Included will be the Magnolia Video Diary, the Frank T.J. Mackey Seminar video, the Seduce and Destroy Infomercial, Aimee Mann's One and Save Me music videos and the film's trailers and TV spots. In short, the contents of the previous DVD release.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: picolas on September 21, 2009, 04:06:55 PM
i don't remember the 'one' video... and will there be milk-related easter eggs? people from the future?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: SiliasRuby on September 21, 2009, 04:13:58 PM
This is promising
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: cine on September 21, 2009, 07:24:27 PM
sorry, does everyone have Blu-Ray except for me?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on September 21, 2009, 08:07:59 PM
Yeah, probably.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Fernando on September 22, 2009, 12:18:13 PM
you're not alone cine, and I don't think I will buy one in the near future, nor feel the need to.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on September 22, 2009, 01:04:17 PM
Fuck a Blu-Ray. I wasted so much time/money getting my DVD collection up to par and now I have to start all over again?

NO. I hope Blu-Ray causes cancer.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: picolas on September 22, 2009, 02:49:15 PM
it's backwards-compatible. it makes dvds look better.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: matt35mm on September 22, 2009, 08:43:44 PM
It also makes your penis bigger.

... but that might be the cancer.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Pozer on September 22, 2009, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: Stefen on September 22, 2009, 01:04:17 PM
Fuck a Blu-Ray. I wasted so much time/money getting my DVD collection up to par and now I have to start all over again?

NO. I hope Blu-Ray causes cancer.

i cant believe you dont hav a PS3 by now. now that theyre 299, just do it do it. im not even a gamer and at a hundred more $s it was the best investment id made in some time. along with the ol 50" Samsung LCD of course  :yabbse-wink: :yabbse-wink: 

my DVD collection remains/they look better and im spending less $s on Blu-Rays than i was on DVDs at places like Amazon. even if they end up giving me cancer, i still come out ahead.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on September 23, 2009, 01:27:24 AM
I refuse to buy a PS3 based on the fact that they aren't backwards compatible with PS2 games.

How can you make a PS3 and now allow it to play PS2 games? There's like 3 good PS3 games that you can't also get on 360.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: RegularKarate on September 23, 2009, 11:40:19 AM
Quote from: Stefen on September 23, 2009, 01:27:24 AM
I refuse to buy a PS3 based on the fact that they aren't backwards compatible with PS2 games.

How can you make a PS3 and now allow it to play PS2 games? There's like 3 good PS3 games that you can't also get on 360.

Wait... this isn't true is it?

I was considering getting one... if this is true then purchase canceled.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: john on September 23, 2009, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: RegularKarate on September 23, 2009, 11:40:19 AM

Wait... this isn't true is it?

I was considering getting one... if this is true then purchase canceled.

Playstation initially offered a 60GB that was backwards compatible, then discontinued it for the 40 and 80 - both of which were not. Neither is the Slim. But you could look into finding that 60, if you really want.

Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gamblour. on September 23, 2009, 12:58:16 PM
Quote from: john on September 23, 2009, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: RegularKarate on September 23, 2009, 11:40:19 AM

Wait... this isn't true is it?

I was considering getting one... if this is true then purchase canceled.

Playstation initially offered a 60GB that was backwards compatible, then discontinued it for the 40 and 80 - both of which were not. Neither is the Slim. But you could look into finding that 60, if you really want.



Yeah, the last one they made was the one I was lucky enough to get last summer, bundled with Metal Gear 4.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on September 23, 2009, 01:29:17 PM
Yeah, you can find a used one on EBay but they're expensive and I don't really trust used shit on expensive electronics like that.

I don't know what Sony is thinking. The PS3's library is shit. They are like the XBox of last generation. They have pretty graphics and a powerful machine but hardly any exclusive titles worth buying a PS3 for.

The PS2 has tons of awesome games and I'd play PS2 games more than the two or three exclusive titles the PS3 has.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: MacGuffin on September 23, 2009, 01:31:11 PM
Quote from: matt35mm on September 22, 2009, 08:43:44 PM
It also makes your penis bigger.

... but that might be the cancer.


And all this time I thought it was because I carry my cell phone in my underwear.  :doh:
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: MacGuffin on September 23, 2009, 05:49:04 PM
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.blu-ray.com%2Fmovies%2Fcovers%2F5388_medium.jpg&hash=3cb39056092730724892f79490600022ad410316)

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.blu-ray.com%2Fmovies%2Fcovers%2F5388_back.jpg&hash=8f23cdff1394313ac642a1e1d2a3df3f827537bd)
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: children with angels on September 23, 2009, 06:06:05 PM
That's really a pretty good blurb.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: picolas on September 23, 2009, 06:16:52 PM
soo... i guess that 'one' video never existed?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Pubrick on September 24, 2009, 07:48:38 AM
"biblical floods"??
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: pete on September 24, 2009, 11:31:02 AM
it's a meta-blurb - a blurb about how hard it is to write a blurb. 
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: logitrax on September 24, 2009, 06:44:45 PM
Quote from: picolas on September 23, 2009, 06:16:52 PM
soo... i guess that 'one' video never existed?

they probably meant the "save me" video
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on September 24, 2009, 06:51:49 PM
Quote from: :P on September 24, 2009, 07:48:38 AM
"biblical floods"??

You don't remember that part?  Maybe it got cut out, like Orlando Jones.

I like how "Biblical Floods" and "Game Shows" are randomly capitalized.  Why not "Self-Help Seminars" or "Weather"?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: socketlevel on November 10, 2009, 10:19:20 PM
Quote from: john on September 23, 2009, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: RegularKarate on September 23, 2009, 11:40:19 AM

Wait... this isn't true is it?

I was considering getting one... if this is true then purchase canceled.

Playstation initially offered a 60GB that was backwards compatible, then discontinued it for the 40 and 80 - both of which were not. Neither is the Slim. But you could look into finding that 60, if you really want.


i've got one that's backward compatible, must be this one you're talking about. wow i didn't know they did that. though some games look pretty shit on it. maybe that's why they did it.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on November 11, 2009, 02:48:34 AM
They did it because they plan to start selling/renting all the PS2 games as downloads in the Playstation Store

Basically, all the PS2 games you bought and own, you'll have to buy again as a digital download.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: john on December 08, 2009, 12:06:24 AM
Fuck.

Yeah.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Brothers/Boogie_Nights_Blu-ray_Best_Buy_Exclusive/3880
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gittes on December 08, 2009, 01:36:50 AM
That's awesome. I hope that doesn't somehow preclude Canadians...

Is Punch Drunk Love getting pushed forward into 2010, still? Because I just know that's going to look glorious in high-definition.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: squints on December 08, 2009, 08:04:18 AM
Watched the new star trek on blu-ray with some friends the other day and the majority of them hadn't seen PDL. PDL came up because i could not stop commenting on all the damn lens flare in star trek and they didn't get why i thought it was such a big deal. I told them all "Well we'll have to watch Punch Drunk Love on blu-ray!" but...i forgot that it doesn't exist... :(
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: modage on December 08, 2009, 10:05:21 AM
Someone just tweeted "I miss Jason Robards" and I went to look up Earl's speech on regret.  Goddamn it's beautiful.


She's my wife for thirty eight years... I went behind her... over and over... fucking asshole I am that I would go out and fuck and come home and get in her bed and say "I love you... " This's Jack's mother. His mother Lily... these two that I had and I lost... and this is the regret that you make... the regret you make is the something that you take... blah... blah... blah... something, something...

(beat)

Gimme a cigarettee?

She had cancer... from her... in her stomach and I didn't go anywhere with her... and I didn't do a god thing... for her and to help her... shit... this bitch... the beautiful, beautiful bitch with perfect skin and child bearing hips and so soft... her namewasLilysee?

(beat, fading)

He liked her though he did, his mom, Frank/Jack... he took care of her and she died. She didn't stick with him and he thinks and he hates me, ok... see... I'm... that's then what you get?... are you still walkin' in that car... ?

... getthat on the tv... there...

... mistakes like this are not ok... sometimes you make some, and ok... not sometimes to make other one... know that you should do better... I loved Lily. I cheated on her. For thirty five years. And I have this son. And she has cancer. And I'm not there. And he's forced to take care of her. He's fourteen years old to take care of his mother and watch her die on him. Little Kid. And I'm not there. And She Dies. And I Live My Life. And I'm Not Fair. Thirty eight years and she has cancer and I'm gone... I leave... I walk out, I can't deal with that... who am I? Who the fuck do I think I am to go and do a thing? Shit on that and that lovely person. I'll go away... I'll go away... I can't hold this... you gotta take this fuckin' pen outta my hand... you fuckin' piss, cocksucker... take this...

Oh fuck... this fuckin' story has fallen apart and I don't even think I can... I got no punchline -- we had good times later, the best times, the love of my life, I thirty eight years -- but never the respect and the... she knew what I did... she knew... all the stupid things I've done but the LOVE was stronger than anything you can think up.

... The attachment... I loved her so much. And I didn't treat her and the goddamn regret... THE GODDAMN REGRET... and I'll die...

Now I'll die and I'll tell you: what? The biggest regret of my life: I let my love go...

... I ruined my love... jesus... jesus christ. what did I do and I had to get away... ? something, something to do... I can't explain... I love her so much... leave her there... and to punish... punish her...

... and the punishment for what? What?... nothing... and I'm so embarrassed... so embarrassed for what I've done...

I'm seventy five years old and embarrassed... .million years ago... my fuckin' REGRET AND GUILT AND these things... don't let anyone tell you that you shouldn't regret anything... don't do that... don't...

... you fuckin' regret what you want... use that... use that...

... use that regret for you any way you want... you can use that ok... someone says not to regret or think about the past, something, mistakes we make... bullshit.

... this is a long way to go for no punch... a little moral... story I say... Love. love. love... this fuckin' life... ohhhhhhh, love...

... it's so fuckin' hard... and so long... life ain't short it's long... Life is long, godddmnit -- god damn... what'd I do? What'd I do? ohhhh what'dIdo?

Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gittes on December 16, 2009, 01:32:26 PM
I don't think that Boogie Nights deal is valid for Canada. I called my local Best Buy and they had no idea what I was talking about.  :(
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Derek on December 21, 2009, 12:37:14 PM
Boogie Nights Blu-ray review

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Boogie-Nights-Blu-ray-Review/5389/
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Ravi on December 25, 2009, 05:57:45 PM
Not related to the Blu-ray, but here it is:

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F144b56r.jpg&hash=1b485bb6385f50df93397e875204d6b7a8c1be8c)

There are funny parts, but I wouldn't call this an out-and-out comedy...
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on December 25, 2009, 06:54:46 PM
Lol. Boogie Nights is pretty hilarious though.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on December 26, 2009, 06:12:50 PM
Yeap. Especially that part when Dirk masturbates to the other guy and then gets spanked. Reminds me a lot of Bill and Ted.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on December 26, 2009, 06:32:42 PM
FEEL MY HEAT!
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on December 27, 2009, 04:43:44 PM
My personal favourite is when he's talking about when Napoleon was the King of the Roman Empire. That shit always drives me to tears :lol:
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on December 27, 2009, 05:10:31 PM
A storyline I wish PTA would have spent more time on is Reed's quest to become a legit magician. He was showing promise towards the end.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: ElPandaRoyal on December 29, 2009, 06:33:14 PM
That reminds me to wish everybody a magical new year.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: MacGuffin on December 29, 2009, 10:49:49 PM
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2873/boogienights.html


Quite frankly, it's probably the best the movie has ever looked, probably even eclipsing the original theatrical run. The transfer might not be as eye-popping as one would want for a reference quality disc, but this is easily one of the best transfers I have seen in a long time, especially for a twelve year old movie that's initially being released, unceremoniously, as a Best Buy exclusive. It's good to see 'Boogie Nights' looking this lush and wonderful.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Derek on January 13, 2010, 03:28:15 PM
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/magnolia.htm

Blu-ray review and dvd comparison.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Derek on January 15, 2010, 05:41:08 PM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Magnolia-Blu-ray-Review/5388/
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: mogwai on January 16, 2010, 01:45:26 PM
Magnolia looks the best out of the two movies in Blu-ray, picture wise. I have to judge it more when it's released though. Now it's only Hard Eight left that I wish was upgraded. :yabbse-undecided: PDL isn't that appealing but maybe I'll change my mind if there's someone here who thinks it's a worthy purchase.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Alexandro on January 16, 2010, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: Mogwai on January 16, 2010, 01:45:26 PM
Magnolia looks the best out of the two movies in Blu-ray, picture wise. I have to judge it more when it's released though. Now it's only Hard Eight left that I wish was upgraded. :yabbse-undecided: PDL isn't that appealing but maybe I'll change my mind if there's someone here who thinks it's a worthy purchase.

PDL is the one with the best / most unique cinematography and sound design.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: mogwai on January 16, 2010, 03:27:48 PM
Quote from: Alexandro on January 16, 2010, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: Mogwai on January 16, 2010, 01:45:26 PM
Magnolia looks the best out of the two movies in Blu-ray, picture wise. I have to judge it more when it's released though. Now it's only Hard Eight left that I wish was upgraded. :yabbse-undecided: PDL isn't that appealing but maybe I'll change my mind if there's someone here who thinks it's a worthy purchase.

PDL is the one with the best / most unique cinematography and sound design.

That was almost what I thought too, glad it was confirmed. :yabbse-smiley:
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Alexandro on January 17, 2010, 03:37:42 PM
in fact with time i'm getting increasingly inclined to believe Punch Drunk Love is his best film.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: RegularKarate on January 18, 2010, 03:14:42 PM
I watched parts of the Boogie Blu-ray yesterday and it looks great.  I wish I had had time to watch the whole thing... made me remember how much I loved it.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on January 18, 2010, 03:24:43 PM
I'm not that blown away with the quality of the blu-ray, actually.  The image was good but not great, and the audio seemed really muddy at times.  It's still Boogie Nights on blu-ray, but I didn't think it was that big of a step up from the DVD.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: RegularKarate on January 18, 2010, 03:45:56 PM
Quote from: polkablues on January 18, 2010, 03:24:43 PM
I'm not that blown away with the quality of the blu-ray, actually.  The image was good but not great, and the audio seemed really muddy at times.  It's still Boogie Nights on blu-ray, but I didn't think it was that big of a step up from the DVD.

I don't really have a decent enough sound system to judge based on the sound (which was great compared to how I watched it previous).

The picture looked great to me, but really I didn't watch a lot.  Too bad.

Still... Boogie Nights on Blu-Ray.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: MacGuffin on January 20, 2010, 04:39:29 PM
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2717/magnolia.html
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Pubrick on January 20, 2010, 06:46:03 PM
so the maggie blu ray doesn't hav the outtakes after the colour bars?

link above says no easter eggs.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: MacGuffin on January 21, 2010, 12:00:12 AM
Quote from: ρ on January 20, 2010, 06:46:03 PM
so the maggie blu ray doesn't hav the outtakes after the colour bars?

link above says no easter eggs.


Nope. There aren't even color bars.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on July 06, 2010, 12:50:06 AM
Amazon has Magnolia on Blu-Ray for $14.50 right now. Do you think it's worth upgrading at that price?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on July 06, 2010, 01:02:49 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: socketlevel on July 06, 2010, 10:36:59 AM
if you live in toronto (and i'm assuming ontario/canada) HMV and Best Buy have been having a 3 pack special Magnolia/Boogie Nights/Eternal Sunshine for 30 bucks. I think it's an Alliance/Atlantis promotion.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on January 07, 2011, 05:14:55 PM
Finally bought Boogie Nights and Magnolia on blu-ray and they arrived last night so I watched them both until 6am. Gorgeous. I hadn't watched Magnolia in its entirety in years and I think I see all its faults now. The Wise Up scene in particular is pretty bad. Watching it, I was reminded of all the things I loved and would think about for so long. The opening is so great. I watched the trailer a few times too. Still my favorite trailer of all time.

Boogie Nights is still flawless. I want to find that part in the commentary where they talk about the time Burt Reynolds punched PTA in the face and broke his glasses. I remember PTA trying to change the subject when that was brought up. Am I imagining things?

I can't wait for PDL to come out on blu-ray. I'm surprised it hasn't yet.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Reel on January 07, 2011, 06:18:46 PM
damn, thats a nice double feature! I see what you're saying about Magnolia, a lot of the mystery is gone from it simply because we've pretty much figured it out and seen a lot of other cool stuff since then. I kind of watch it and think that none of the stories feel very original or exciting on their own, but put them all together and you got one hell of a movie!
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Pubrick on January 07, 2011, 10:16:20 PM
the frogs is still one of the most amazing things pta has done.

"but it did happen" is basically him slicing his wrists right there on the screen.

don't think he'll ever be as angsty or purely 100% psychotic as in that movie. for that alone it remains a masterpiece in my eyes.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on January 08, 2011, 12:24:44 AM
That's exactly it. Magnolia is one of the biggest examples of an artist putting himself completely onto the screen. Warts and all, that movie is him.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Robyn on January 08, 2011, 02:09:07 AM
Quote from: P on January 07, 2011, 10:16:20 PM
"but it did happen" is basically him slicing his wrists right there on the screen.

Could you please explain to a dumb fuck like myself why it is so?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: ono on January 08, 2011, 09:47:34 AM
Quote from: Stefen on January 07, 2011, 05:14:55 PM
The Wise Up scene in particular is pretty bad. Watching it, I was reminded of all the things I loved and would think about for so long. The opening is so great. I watched the trailer a few times too. Still my favorite trailer of all time.

Boogie Nights is still flawless. I want to find that part in the commentary where they talk about the time Burt Reynolds punched PTA in the face and broke his glasses. I remember PTA trying to change the subject when that was brought up. Am I imagining things?

I can't wait for PDL to come out on blu-ray. I'm surprised it hasn't yet.
I still don't see any "flaws" in Wise Up.  PTA took something that seemed cheesy on paper and made it transcendental, primarily because of the blank looks on everyone's faces as they sing.  The opening is a movie in itself, one of the best shorts ever.  And yeah, the trailer for Magnolia -- or CMBB -- is probably the most perfect example of a trailer.  Can't decide which.

As for the Burt Reynolds story, having listened to those commentaries probably close to 100 times, I'm fairly certain the story you're referring to isn't in there.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 08, 2011, 06:18:25 PM
The Wise Up scene is bad. It's both unbelievable and dumb. The only rationale to think it's good is if you subjectively find it moving. However, to think all those people would come together at the same time to listen to an obscure song by an obscure artist makes no sense. It isn't like Aimee Mann is written into the story as a connection between characters. If she was, it wouldn't be out of the question they may think of her song at a moment during the tumultuous day, but they do anyways. And since you have a storyline between a nurse and a dying man who seem to have no cultural connection or shared experience, it makes even less sense for both of them to be humming the words to the song as well.

It's also bad because it just puts a lid on the various experiences by the different characters. Up until that scene, only coincidences and moments of fate really connect all the stories. Each story has its own tangible drama, but when they all start singing a story which means to identify their plight, it just marginalizes the drama of their suffering. For some stories, I wondered why they would be singing that song over others which probably would make more sense, but I felt like I now had to have different assumptions about what they were feeling. When you have so many stories, it's not good to have an across the board emotional comment on every character in such an easy way. But the film wears a lot of its emotions and aesthetics on its sleeve. For me, a lot of it is underdeveloped and immature, but if you have zeal, that is what matters for some.

Or the song could have been on the radio and they were all just listening and then, who gives a shit? You only show that connection scene between all characters if you think it will forward the story in significant way. I disagree.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Ghostboy on January 08, 2011, 06:53:50 PM
I don't think it's meant to be taken literally, GT. I'm not saying the scene truly works, but if it DOES work (and god knows it worked for me when I was 19) it's because it takes a momentary leave of reality (a reality that includes but isn't limited to extreme cases of coincidence) and goes for figurative meaning. We love certain songs because they are able to sum up our feelings in an incredibly emotive, expressive way, and I think PTA was just taking a big meta-jump and relying on that propensity to soothe a.) the characters and b.) the audience.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 08, 2011, 07:04:49 PM
Understood. It worked for me too when I was 20, but I've rewatched the movie in the last few years and it was tough to watch parts of it. I can understand intentions and disagree with result.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 01:13:29 AM
It's just another fantastic surreal scene in a movie full of surreal scenes. If you start picking at scenes in Magnolia that seem "unbelievable," you're not going to have much left.

And what's wrong with surrealism, anyway?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 01:25:19 AM
So everything is equal and fine in surrealism? Besides, I wasn't just talking about believability.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Stefen on January 09, 2011, 01:32:26 AM
lol. What did I start? Oh well. It's been awhile since we had a good PTA debate on this board. I think it would be interesting if we all revisited his films and see how they affect us now as opposed to the way they did when we were younger and saw them. I thought Magnolia was the greatest movie I had ever seen. Everything about it was just the greatest thing ever to me. Like I said, I can now see its faults and there are some, but that's okay. I think I may appreciate it now more than I did before because I can see it for what it is. It's pretentious, self-indulgent, too long and silly, but those are kind of the things that make it so great. As P said, it's PTA slitting his wrists on the screen. It's him saying, 'fuck you, this is MY movie.' He even says in the diary after he screens it and he's outside shooting the shit, 'final cut. bad idea to give final cut to a guy like me.' and it's true.

Anyways, I had so much fun watching these the other night I went out and bought CMBB on blu-ray. I had some giftcards and figured why not. Hated paying full price, but it was worth it. Can't wait to watch it tonight.

Going through his filmography, I'm falling in love with his films all over again, but for different reasons than before. It's a lot of fun.  
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 02:44:50 AM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 01:25:19 AM
So everything is equal and fine in surrealism? Besides, I wasn't just talking about believability.

Okay. "Dumb" is subjective (unless you have something more specific to say), so I'll move on from that...

You implied that it was "unbelievable" because it was surreal. Do you prefer believable surrealism?

Also... I disagree with your analysis of the sequence on a basic level. The lyrics that each character sings do not neatly sum up their specific states or experiences. Some fit nicely, some fit vaguely, some don't exactly fit. That's too literal an interpretation.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: modage on January 09, 2011, 09:49:08 AM
I still can't believe GT thought that scene should be taken literally!  Of course it's unbelievable!  Do you know what else is unbelievable?  Any musical, ever. That doesn't make them dumb.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: john on January 09, 2011, 02:14:53 PM
Sports and milk.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 03:36:59 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 02:44:50 AM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 01:25:19 AM
So everything is equal and fine in surrealism? Besides, I wasn't just talking about believability.

Okay. "Dumb" is subjective (unless you have something more specific to say), so I'll move on from that...

You implied that it was "unbelievable" because it was surreal. Do you prefer believable surrealism?

Also... I disagree with your analysis of the sequence on a basic level. The lyrics that each character sings do not neatly sum up their specific states or experiences. Some fit nicely, some fit vaguely, some don't exactly fit. That's too literal an interpretation.

Yes, but the sequence does ask you to inject the meaning of the song into each story and find some relevance in it. The sequence is a defining moment for some emotional clarity in what's happening but for the stories where the song doesn't have much meaning or connection, it isn't like they are given other chances for emblems (in this manner) of distinction to their stories so the film does set it up where you lend more meaning to the lyrics in the song. I think it's a false dramatic move and undermines the potential of each story. I say that because I didn't think some of the stories, subsequently, did not do much afterward that was surprising or challenging to their general outcome assumptions.

It isn't about believability or literalism, it's about a rational call to what would help push the story to be more interesting. I first interpreted the story on a believability basis because because at its core, the scene wasn't rational on many parts, so for me that made the scene very weak. It's easy to throw an unbelievable figment of reality into a film this and have it make only some sense. The challenge is to make it sense on more levels but continue cloud your best assumptions of what will happen later. This song made everything too explainable and easy.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 05:08:01 PM
In a sense, I think you're getting at something important...

Wise Up is the first real ultimatum and/or litmus test of the movie (the second being the frogs). If you have trouble accepting it as a legitimate and meaningful scene, you're going to have trouble with the film overall. I can't do anything about that.

But again, still, I think you're crippling your experience with literalism.

It's like you're depending on the Wise Up sequence to do what you imagine it doing—defining the characters. Though many of the lyrics do match the characters, they are not summaries of those characters, and they are especially not precise descriptions of those characters' current states.

How much screen time is spent defining the characters outside of Wise Up? Lots. Magnolia does not depend on this sequence to do that. The Wise Up sequence is also not supposed to "push the story to be more interesting"—and it's certainly not a "false dramatic move," because it's not a "dramatic move" at all. By definition, it doesn't try to move anything. The characters are sitting there doing nothing, singing along to a song, introspecting. It's more a reflective interlude than anything else.

I generally believe people are entitled to their own interpretations, but I think this is a clear case of misinterpretation.

If you really are desperate for the sequence to serve some utilitarian purpose, one could easily argue that it offers a quick and dirty survey of the characters, tying them (and their desperation) together in a simple/beautiful way, much like the earlier whip pan sequence.

And I don't know about you, but the first (and eighth) time I saw Magnolia, I was too giddy during the Wise Up sequence to ask a question like "How does this advance the story?"

Who are you, Syd Field?
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 05:30:16 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 05:08:01 PM
Who are you, Syd Field?

Syd Field loved it:

Quote from: Syd FieldAs the rain thunders down, we see the nine characters singing about their pain and guilt and lack of self-worth, knowing it's just not going to stop "til you wise up." Until they can accept themselves for who they are, until they can forgive themselves and accept their own sense of self-worth, until they can let somebody love them for who they are and let the past go, it's not going to stop. Just "wise up."

When I first saw this scene, I was taken aback. To have the characters break into song, expressing their pain and discomfort in a musical lyric, is an extraordinary accomplishment. I remember James Brooks tried to do this in "I'll Do Anything," and it didn't work. Finally, after several different approaches in cutting the movie, Brooks had to drop the songs and tried to structure the film in a different way. But it never really worked. Paul Anderson makes it work.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 05:56:34 PM
Haha, wow.

I remember reading that Syd Field liked Magnolia because he believed it adhered to his beloved three-act structure, but I didn't know about this.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 06:04:09 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 05:08:01 PM
In a sense, I think you're getting at something important...

Wise Up is the first real ultimatum and/or litmus test of the movie (the second being the frogs). If you have trouble accepting it as a legitimate and meaningful scene, you're going to have trouble with the film overall. I can't do anything about that.

Get this, I'm fine with the frog scene. Get off me not being able to accept a little surrealism.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 05:08:01 PM
It's like you're depending on the Wise Up sequence to do what you imagine it doing—defining the characters. Though many of the lyrics do match the characters, they are not summaries of those characters, and they are especially not precise descriptions of those characters' current states.

How much screen time is spent defining the characters outside of Wise Up? Lots. Magnolia does not depend on this sequence to do that. The Wise Up sequence is also not supposed to "push the story to be more interesting"—and it's certainly not a "false dramatic move," because it's not a "dramatic move" at all. By definition, it doesn't try to move anything. The characters are sitting there doing nothing, singing along to a song, introspecting. It's more a reflective interlude than anything else.

Now I think you're being too literal with your interpretation. Since the musical number is technically a standstill moment, it isn't trying to advance anything at all? I'll grant you it doesn't advance any story, but I'm sorry, on the character front, I disagree. When every character is singing a song where a connection between the lyrics and their emotional states can be made, the film is trying to point to some clarity about their emotional states. Is it a lot? Maybe not, but the film does want you to see relevance between what every character is singing and what they are feeling. You say we should discount some connections, but I say the film should just not have included those characters. This isn't like defenders of the Bible where every story has the same intention and they just discount some because they make less sense. The overall structure of the story should take more consideration.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 05:08:01 PM
If you really are desperate for the sequence to serve some utilitarian purpose, one could easily argue that it offers a quick and dirty survey of the characters, tying them (and their desperation) together in a simple/beautiful way, much like the earlier whip pan sequence.

I'm looking for a little unitarian harmony considering the choices the film make. If I was in charge, I would have had a musical number without lyrics. It's the same effect and adds an element of surrealism but doesn't force the situation where you can start picking what parts of the lyrics makes most sense for what characters and how. The sequence doesn't have to advance the story, but the inclusion of lyrics do try to show an unnecessary amount of clarity. I think if they were going to go with lyrics, don't try to pigeonhole every into the simple ramifications of a pop song.

Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 06:07:18 PM
Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 05:56:34 PM
Haha, wow.

I remember reading that Syd Field liked Magnolia because he believed it adhered to his beloved three-act structure, but I didn't know about this.

http://www.sydfield.com/featured_magnolia.htm (http://www.sydfield.com/featured_magnolia.htm)

He actually seems to really appreciate it entirely on its own terms. I gained a lot of respect for Field when I first read this piece.


EDIT: And can we please stop using the word surrealism in regards to Magnolia? In every case, you all actually mean magic realism.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 07:23:30 PM
GT -

I only understood about 1/3 of that.

But I can work with this:

Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 06:04:09 PMIf I was in charge, I would have had a musical number without lyrics. It's the same effect and adds an element of surrealism but doesn't force the situation where you can start picking what parts of the lyrics makes most sense for what characters and how.

Actually, that would have been horrible. Most of the genius and thrill of the Wise Up sequence comes directly from the singalong. Yes, it's crazy, it's challenging, and it barely works, but that's why it's so great.

I still think you want the Wise Up sequence to do something it never promised. I also think you're uncomfortable with the sequence being such a huge thing in the movie without justifying its existence with more utility.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: modage on January 09, 2011, 07:49:19 PM
It's good to have JB back.  It brings balance to The Force.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 07:57:08 PM
This argument is going nowhere so,

1.) Your new point isn't an argument. I'll take it as a disagreement.  

To maybe just reinforce my point since all I seem to be doing is reestablishing my argument, the lyrics in the song cornered the characters for me. You had a development of characterization throughout the story and they all join in a Greek Chorus type of song when it only seemed to be truly meaningful in symbolism for a few of the singers.

You don't attribute lyrics to characters. I do and I don't understand how it's beng too literal or whatever. You admit it's a "survey" of the characters, but I don't even see that for everyone. All I think it represents is a general tone at best and if you start thinking about some characters in any context of the lyrics, it marginalizes their characterization and storyline. It takes me out of their storyline.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 07:57:43 PM
Quote from: modage on January 09, 2011, 07:49:19 PM
It's good to have JB back.  It brings balance to The Force.

Ha, yea, I had too many people on my side before.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 09:23:34 PM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 07:57:08 PM1.) Your new point isn't an argument. I'll take it as a disagreement.

I agree.

Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 07:57:08 PMTo maybe just reinforce my point since all I seem to be doing is reestablishing my argument, the lyrics in the song cornered the characters for me. You had a development of characterization throughout the story and they all join in a Greek Chorus type of song when it only seemed to be truly meaningful in symbolism for a few of the singers.

You don't attribute lyrics to characters. I do and I don't understand how it's beng too literal or whatever. You admit it's a "survey" of the characters, but I don't even see that for everyone. All I think it represents is a general tone at best and if you start thinking about some characters in any context of the lyrics, it marginalizes their characterization and storyline. It takes me out of their storyline.

I feel like I should quote what I originally said:

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 02:44:50 AMI disagree with your analysis of the sequence on a basic level. The lyrics that each character sings do not neatly sum up their specific states or experiences. Some fit nicely, some fit vaguely, some don't exactly fit. That's too literal an interpretation.

Remember, it's not as if each character is singing their line spontaneously. They are all singing along to the same song. This is one song which collectively summarizes (and even then, not precisely) the general state of the ensemble.

If your interpretation is that each line sung by each character is meant to neatly summarize that individual character's specific state, then I think you are wrong, and I think your dislike of the sequence is at least partially a result of that misinterpretation.

It's worth mentioning that "Wise Up" was not written for the film. Beyond that, "Wise Up" isn't even the Aimee Mann song that partially inspired the movie... that was "Deathly." It wasn't written for each character, and the characters were certainly not written for it. PTA most likely matched up each line to a character so that they would approximately make sense. The result is that, like I'm saying, it's a collective survey of the ensemble... which I thought was always clear enough.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 09:33:30 PM
So, it's a collective summary of the ensemble? Any relevance of the lyrics to a character specifically is useless? Yea, that's a dumb way to use a song in a movie. I mind disliking the scene even less now.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 09:35:43 PM
Quote from: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 06:07:18 PMIn every case, you all actually mean magic realism.

It just doesn't have the same ring to it... unless I can say MR.

"GT, I assumed the frogs would be too MR for you. Interesting."
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 10:22:50 PM
The song isn't meant to narratively tie the characters together, but to do so thematically.  Matching each character line by line is a futile effort, one that will surely result in the frustration GT seems to have with the scene.  The idea is that all the characters are at a crossroad at that point in their arc, and the song serves as a bridge to carry them all through to the next phase of the story.  Tonally, it works just the same way as the musical montage that occurs at that point in 90% of American films that have ever been made, but simultaneously manages to further the underlying theme of coincidence and connectedness that carries through the entire film.


Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 09, 2011, 09:35:43 PM
Quote from: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 06:07:18 PMIn every case, you all actually mean magic realism.

It just doesn't have the same ring to it... unless I can say MR.

"GT, I assumed the frogs would be too MR for you. Interesting."

Fair enough.  I just hate when a perfectly good ism loses its meaning.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 10:50:58 PM
Quote from: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 10:22:50 PM
The song isn't meant to narratively tie the characters together, but to do so thematically.  Matching each character line by line is a futile effort, one that will surely result in the frustration GT seems to have with the scene.  The idea is that all the characters are at a crossroad at that point in their arc, and the song serves as a bridge to carry them all through to the next phase of the story.  Tonally, it works just the same way as the musical montage that occurs at that point in 90% of American films that have ever been made, but simultaneously manages to further the underlying theme of coincidence and connectedness that carries through the entire film.

Most musical montages in American films don't have sit downs with the characters where they sing every line of a song. The musical montages in most films are just focused on the musical montage element. As I said before, if it was just instrumental music being played, I would be fine with the scene. While I watch the scene and I see specific characters singing specific lines, my brain starts registering the lyrics with the characters. It's a critical component of the brain. I would argue there is some correlation for lyrics to characters. People think I need to see an entire character understanding in the lyrics. I just want some but in the end, I wish it was just music (with no lyrics) because structurally, what is in Magnolia makes my brain play connect to the dot too much with other parts of the story.

Also, I realize my feeling about that point is like Blackman's to how he feels. It can be argued, but the speakers aren't going to be argued out of it. The song takes me out of the story in all those ways.

And Magical Realism is a good thing.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 11:57:32 PM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 09, 2011, 10:50:58 PM
Quote from: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 10:22:50 PM
The song isn't meant to narratively tie the characters together, but to do so thematically.  Matching each character line by line is a futile effort, one that will surely result in the frustration GT seems to have with the scene.  The idea is that all the characters are at a crossroad at that point in their arc, and the song serves as a bridge to carry them all through to the next phase of the story.  Tonally, it works just the same way as the musical montage that occurs at that point in 90% of American films that have ever been made, but simultaneously manages to further the underlying theme of coincidence and connectedness that carries through the entire film.

Most musical montages in American films don't have sit downs with the characters where they sing every line of a song. The musical montages in most films are just focused on the musical montage element. As I said before, if it was just instrumental music being played, I would be fine with the scene. While I watch the scene and I see specific characters singing specific lines, my brain starts registering the lyrics with the characters. It's a critical component of the brain. I would argue there is some correlation for lyrics to characters. People think I need to see an entire character understanding in the lyrics. I just want some but in the end, I wish it was just music (with no lyrics) because structurally, what is in Magnolia makes my brain play connect to the dot too much with other parts of the story.

Also, I realize my feeling about that point is like Blackman's to how he feels. It can be argued, but the speakers aren't going to be argued out of it. The song takes me out of the story in all those ways.

And Magical Realism is a good thing.

Obviously, the Wise Up scene is different from most end-of-second-act musical montages; the question to pursue from there is WHY is it different, and how does that difference affect its functioning in that role.

The only difference between the way the scene plays out in Magnolia and the way it would have played out in any other film is that the characters seemingly break the fourth wall by singing along to what is clearly a non-diagetic music cue. The film pushes up against the fourth wall earlier (John C Reilly's COPS monologue, "BUT IT DID HAPPEN", "This is the scene in the movie where you help me"), but this is the only time where it really shatters it. In doing so, it elevates the scene beyond the level of simple narrative bridge, and forces us to look at what it means for this to happen. In my opinion, the film does this to reestablish the primary themes (again, coincidence and connectedness) as it takes us into the final act.

Had it been a simple musical montage, it would have created the tone and carried us through the act break just fine, but would have done nothing to elevate the themes of the film. For sure, it runs the risk of making those themes too on-the-nose, too blatantly described, but it's a blatant film, made by a bold filmmaker at the height of his boldness.

In the end, I do find myself agreeing with your assessment that whether or not the scene works for you is reliant on whether or not you're personally moved by it, but I disagree with your implication that the ONLY reason it might work for someone is that they were moved by it. There is justification for the scene, even if it remains unconvincing to you.

At least we can all agree that magical realism is the shit. I always like to be able to end things on a point of agreement.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Jeremy Blackman on January 10, 2011, 01:34:18 AM
^ This.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 10, 2011, 03:21:55 AM
Quote from: polkablues on January 09, 2011, 11:57:32 PM
Obviously, the Wise Up scene is different from most end-of-second-act musical montages; the question to pursue from there is WHY is it different, and how does that difference affect its functioning in that role.

The only difference between the way the scene plays out in Magnolia and the way it would have played out in any other film is that the characters seemingly break the fourth wall by singing along to what is clearly a non-diagetic music cue. The film pushes up against the fourth wall earlier (John C Reilly's COPS monologue, "BUT IT DID HAPPEN", "This is the scene in the movie where you help me"), but this is the only time where it really shatters it. In doing so, it elevates the scene beyond the level of simple narrative bridge, and forces us to look at what it means for this to happen. In my opinion, the film does this to reestablish the primary themes (again, coincidence and connectedness) as it takes us into the final act.

Had it been a simple musical montage, it would have created the tone and carried us through the act break just fine, but would have done nothing to elevate the themes of the film. For sure, it runs the risk of making those themes too on-the-nose, too blatantly described, but it's a blatant film, made by a bold filmmaker at the height of his boldness.

In the end, I do find myself agreeing with your assessment that whether or not the scene works for you is reliant on whether or not you're personally moved by it, but I disagree with your implication that the ONLY reason it might work for someone is that they were moved by it. There is justification for the scene, even if it remains unconvincing to you.

At least we can all agree that magical realism is the shit. I always like to be able to end things on a point of agreement.

First, thanks for this argument. It's the best defense of the scene in relation to the rest of the film. Mind you, I still disagree, but I'm glad you bring up a few early scenes. You are detailing metafiction in the story. If you look at John C. Reilly's Cops speech and when he says "Scene in the movie" thing to the woman, he is showing a break of the mefictional wall. However, what I like about those metafictional breaks is that they are also in line with aspects of reality and do dig at elements of pain in someone in nondescript ways. When Kieslowski made The Double Life of Veronique, he also had metafictional signals everywhere which correlated with magical realism. I think it's good writing when you force yourself to keep a pattern of emotional ramification within the scene.

As you say, the Wise Up scene breaks the fourth wall for the story, but I'm not sure if it really elevates the themes to foreshadow what is coming in the frogs raining scene. The only elevation is the physical act of the scene happening. After the musical scene, the story returns to its realist track. The stories build up in their organic ways, but when it gets to the frog scene, it's about how the characters come together in different ways amidst the chaos of frogs. When the camera moves to the sign on the painting that says, "But it did happen.", I believe the film is referencing the origins of how PTA read about raining frogs in a newspaper article and naturally wondered would could happen during an absurd event. It wants to tell the viewer the frogs are happening. In a way, the frog scene is a continuation of the early realistic metafictional qualities. Frog showers do happen in the world and everything in the scene has a realistic (if unlikely) situation of happening. The only metafictional quality to it is when the camera points to the message in the painting.

See, I believe the frog scene is when the real fourth wall break should happen because it keeps everything in a framework. It runs more in line with other metafictional elements of the story. It keeps the reality stage more in play. By contrast, the Wise Up scene looks isolated and stands out too much in contrast to the other things.  It's metafictional in that it calls attention to its element of fiction by showing the characters breaking full face, but what do they do really do? The connection between all the characters is too obvious and connected at desperate levels. The scene goes nowhere and feels too obvious.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Pubrick on January 10, 2011, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 10, 2011, 03:21:55 AM
If you look at John C. Reilly's Cops speech and when he says "Scene in the movie" thing to the woman, he is showing a break of the mefictional wall.

jim kurring doesn't say the "scene in the movie" line, it's Phil Parma to the MAN on the phone who is helping him get in contact with Earl's son. the fact you also thought the Wise Up scene was supposed to be about a real song playing in real time should have rendered this whole argument moot from the very beginning.

the film is difficult to understand because the facade of indulgence and "on the nose" thematic touches (more like punches) hide the many other elements that escalate throughout the story. if at the point of the Wise Up scene we're still meant to think that the only point of that sequence is to re-inforce the "coincidences and connectedness" that have run through the whole film then i would have personally turned the movie off and taken a shit on the DVD for wasting my goddamn time.

at the cinemas i would have set fire to the theatre and killed everyone in the room (too soon?) because i would not have been able to handle the infuriating idiocy that it would take for a filmmaker to spend 3 hours developing a story and layering MANY ideas only to present a scene where the only point is to repeat what was obvious from the PROLOGUE.

PLEASE

of course it looks like a stupid movie if that's the only stupid point one can grab from that scene.

the scene plays before the escalation to the rain of frogs. this is important because the rain of frogs is the most obvious statement of the movie. it is so obvious and loud it shatters windows and alters destinies. it is so massive it takes us to the skies and brings us to the depths of despair of each individual in all the stories. it breaks teeth, it brings peace, it slows time and disrupts order, it belongs to a different story altogether which we have been kept up to date with throughout the whole film and nevertheless to most viewers seemed to come out of nowhere.

the point of the wise up sequence is in its position in anticpation of what has by now being a very very methodical approach to an explosion of minds. the most important part of the lyric is left to Stanley in the only moment that perfectly matches his situation. they are all preparing for the their encounter with an almighty force, and pardon the religious overtones of the word almighty, but there are few words that can describe the grand scale of a natural phenomenon that don't also conjure up biblical or otherwise hyper-spiritual imagery.

frank, jim, donnie, claudia, everyone is preparing for something in this scene, it's a scene of respite and meditation before an expected encounter. jimmy gator is about to meet the ghosts of his past (or really his denial and completely encompassing regret).. jim and claudia about to go on a date.. donnie about to break into solomon's treasures.. frank meeting his dad.. earl and linda awaiting death. Stanley and Phil are the only real characters in this scene who are not about to confront their past and as such appear to be open to the reality of the present.. they are the only ones who verbally react consciously to the rain of frogs.. they are able to TALK in the midst of the natural disaster because they are the ones whose stories run the most parallel to its forces. Phil brings peace by facilitating earl's final wishes.. his entire plot line is a minor human struggle to formulate fate.

stanley's final lines in the Wise Up scene "so just give up" are an affirmation to the monumental encounter they are all about to endure. his surrender is not in preparation for any physical clash of wills (although in the script and deleted scenes he was meant to be brought down to earth through his worm abduction), instead it appeals to the enlightened peaceful state he is ready to meet. why is he in the library reading about coincidences and rain and all that stuff, practically waiting for the frogs to fall? i may have been wrong in saying he and Phil were the only ones who verbally react consciously to the frogs.. the dogs do too in their premonitions. notice their presence by stanley's side.

PTA lays out the rules for his story in very obvious terms from the very beginning.. yes it deals with coincidences among a bunch of random people but that is hardly the point of the film.  what happens when all these people come together and are ripped apart as parallels and regrets hopes and little futures reach a  crescendo is something that begs for a greater explanation.  the force that brings everyone together throughout the film, their simultaneous existence in one night in the valley is leading to their combined release which is a moment of transformative suffering.  phil and stanley stand outside of this as witnesses, one of pure heart and one of pure mind.

"But it did happen" is a slash of blood across the screen in that it rips through us in the most direct way possible. the lifeline of the film is suspension of disbelief that things could be so coincidental, and that emotions could be so well paralleled within a small group of people in such a small space, that's just basic film language. any point that can be made with that language will be limited by our familiarity with the reach of cinematic narrative. but the point is the moment, THAT MOMENT, in magnolia the moment of interest is simply that in which the characters confront themselves. But it Did Happen is an insane move by PTA to show us that he has nothing up his sleeves.. this is all he has to give.. it is the utmost exhaustion.. his sleeves are so exposed that he's cutting his wrists to show us the insides.

either you're with him or you're not.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: polkablues on January 10, 2011, 12:16:18 PM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 10, 2011, 03:21:55 AM
See, I believe the frog scene is when the real fourth wall break should happen because it keeps everything in a framework. It runs more in line with other metafictional elements of the story. It keeps the reality stage more in play. By contrast, the Wise Up scene looks isolated and stands out too much in contrast to the other things.  It's metafictional in that it calls attention to its element of fiction by showing the characters breaking full face, but what do they do really do? The connection between all the characters is too obvious and connected at desperate levels. The scene goes nowhere and feels too obvious.

You have more than that one framework on which the film is built, though.  One is the metafiction, where Anderson toys with the idea of the fourth wall throughout the film until he finally breaks it outright with the Wise Up sequence.  That scene is essentially the climax of that thread.  The frog scene is the culmination of another literary device used throughout the film, the idea of weather as pathetic fallacy.  It starts out clear as the characters are in their status quo, rains harder and harder as their lives are thrown into greater turmoil, and finally, when everything is so haywire that it would actually make sense for frogs to start falling out of the sky, frogs start falling out of the sky.  I don't connect that scene with the metafictional elements of other parts of the film; it's happening for the sake of the characters, not for the sake of the audience.


Quote from: P on January 10, 2011, 12:09:38 PM
if at the point of the Wise Up scene we're still meant to think that the only point of that sequence is to re-inforce the "coincidences and connectedness" that have run through the whole film then i would have personally turned the movie off and taken a shit on the DVD for wasting my goddamn time.

Obviously that's not the only point of the sequence.  I was trying to demonstrate specifically to GT that there were justifications for the scene beyond the ones he had personally disregarded.
Title: Re: Magnolia and Boogie Nights also coming to Blu-ray before end of '09
Post by: Gold Trumpet on January 10, 2011, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: P on January 10, 2011, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 10, 2011, 03:21:55 AM
If you look at John C. Reilly's Cops speech and when he says "Scene in the movie" thing to the woman, he is showing a break of the mefictional wall.

jim kurring doesn't say the "scene in the movie" line, it's Phil Parma to the MAN on the phone who is helping him get in contact with Earl's son. the fact you also thought the Wise Up scene was supposed to be about a real song playing in real time should have rendered this whole argument moot from the very beginning.

You should know about moot arguments. You carried on after you never read Aryan Papers and said the film by Kubrick should have happened after only a completely different story is what would have satisfied Kubrick's fear of it falling into line of what Schindler's List was. Even though Kubrick was casting along the lines of how the novel was presented, you held out with the almost nothing percentage chance it would be different enough. You carried an entire argument into nausea for something you had no rational reason to believe. I got the Wise Up Scene wrong but switched up the presentation of my argument since it didn't change my position and am probably mistaken about the movie in scene person, but I was mainly trying to follow polkablues lead there. I wasn't concerned with who said it since the theoretical implications for the movie is the same. But if you consider it a moot argument, I will ignore the rest of what you said. Seems to be all be a moot point for me too.