Author Topic: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!  (Read 30339 times)

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Bleep

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #240 on: April 06, 2018, 07:55:02 AM »
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SOUND moments:

1. Woodcock's shoes scraping along the floorboards while working on the toile with Alma.

2. The table scraping along the floor when Cyril arrives to break up the twosome.

3. The initial scene of Alma and Woodcock meeting: the apparently diegetic music, surprise, "blossoms" into a full-blown classic Hollywood romantic score-overlay. (Recalling the beginning of EWS, but in reverse: the Shostakovich begins as an overlay, then ends as diegetic, when Dr. Bill switches off the stereo.)

4. The music cue "I'll Follow Tomorrow" is an interplay of three elements: (1) the ominous; (2) the ambivalent (searching); (3) the romantic (hopeful). [For example, the first chord is Ominous (at 11:06 in the running time); then immediately transitions to Romantic; then the Ambivalent enters in; and for the rest of the piece these three musical strands work in opposition, or, sometimes, in unison. At 11:44, the cue descends ominously into the lowest register and sounds like utter finality; but, surprise, it isn't; one note (the one perfectly right note?) provides a bridge for the piece to continue. And the closing moments of the piece (at which point the Ambivalent and the Romantic fuse) offer a promise of the oncoming reappearance of the finality of the lowest register, but it does not come; the piece ends in a not-entirely-resolved, "open" manner.]

eward

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #241 on: April 06, 2018, 11:04:17 AM »
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Keep em comin!
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."

Bleep

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #242 on: April 07, 2018, 06:39:16 AM »
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General and simple points:

1.  When Alma at the beginning says "Every piece of me", this is as terrifying as it is romantic, because, in short, "all of me" suggests not only the good . . . but also the bad, the very, very bad. . . .

2. Notice the shift in textural mood from the crackling, enflamed fireside of shot one, with the cool grey marble of shot two: dramatic contrast between characters.

3. Notice the painting prominent on the wall to the right of the door in Woodcock's bedroom. How does this painting reflect the mood of his character?

4. At breakfast, we see Woodcock sketching a hat onto a model. Saint Laurent's sketches are the most celebrated fashion sketches of the twentieth century; the YSL Foundation in one of its publications reports that YSL could produce a "few hundred" sketches in a matter of two to three days. The point of this reflection is this: looking through a great deal of YSL's published sketches, it seems that something like only twenty-five percent or so have headwear. Make of that what you will (if there is anything to be made of this at all).

5a. The close-up of the back of the dress at 7:04 shows no less than three different types of fastening in one small space of clothing: a zipper, snap fasteners, and a ribbon tie. This is one indication of the complexity of the garment. . . .

5b. Regarding that particular dress: the many-centuries-old technique of "slashing". [I point this out because of earlier reflections on (a) Shakespeare; and (b) a Renaissance pictorial technique.]

6. Please listen to the first thirty seconds of Debussy's "Images", or the second movement of his Suite bergamasque, and you'll hear a primary inspiration of the main theme of PT. . . .

7. The scene when Woodcock takes Alma's measurements: note the bolts of fabric stored horizontally above them on a ceiling rack. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but, it seems to me, there is no way a digital camera could capture such beautiful softness. Wow. (In fact, the greatest degree of "wow". . . .)

That's it for the time being. Best of luck everyone.

Lewton

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #243 on: April 10, 2018, 03:59:19 PM »
+1
Feel free to tell me if this is totally implausible or unconvincing, etc. Or maybe it's just obvious? I don't know. I almost posted it before and then decided against it to ward off embarrassment. Going back to this idea out of boredom now...

I've been thinking about a line that happens in the restaurant scene which immediately precedes the moment where Woodcock and Alma are first seen going into his room. Alma tells Woodcock that he looks "thirsty." Do you think PTA was aiming for some kind of playfully anachronistic effect there by evoking what is also a modern colloquialism? As per that article:

Quote from:
“Thirst,” in recent black and then internet slang, describes a graceless need for approval, affection or attention, one so raw that it creeps people out. It calls to mind the panting tongues, bulging eyeballs, springing hearts and steam-shooting ears of Looney Toons characters. [....]

The more commonplace the word has become over the past few years, the more it has come to describe a condition that exists on a very wide spectrum. The guy who eagerly favorites your every social post is thirsty. The co-worker who’s always fishing for the boss’s praise is thirsty. The brand that tries very hard to be cool is thirsty. The rally-obsessed, Twitter​-​​incontinent politician is thirsty. The acquaintance who’s always suggesting you get together for brunch is thirsty — or maybe you’re just judgmental and mean.

I know this might seem like a peculiar idea for a film which, like There Will Be Blood and several other PTA movies, indicates a great commitment to preserving the authenticity of its time period.

There is a precedent, though. When Henry first shows up in TWBB, he introduces himself as a "brother from another mother." Kevin J. O'Connor delivers that line perfectly, making it seem less like a self-conscious reference to a modern joke than a turn of phrase that someone, in that setting and time period, might just happen to use. Same thing applies to Vicky Krieps' line and delivery. I think PTA was being a bit mischievous in both cases, as he surely knew how these lines would resonate with modern audiences. It creates an amusing bit of friction without disrupting the authenticity...kind of keeps the audience on its toes, makes the film crackle in a minor but funny way. 

I guess the difference is that Alma's use of "thirsty" more closely (but not exactly) corresponds to the way the colloquialism is currently used, even though the film's time period predates the popularity of the term. So, in that sense, it's different from Henry's use of "brother from another mother."

WorldForgot

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #244 on: April 10, 2018, 06:15:09 PM »
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Definitely think that's the joke. In TWBB, too.
 
First time I heard Alma's lil quip I thought, damn, they just pulled another one over Justice League.

Fuzzy Dunlop

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #245 on: April 10, 2018, 08:18:51 PM »
+1
For sure, he loves doing fucking dope shit like that

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #246 on: April 10, 2018, 08:49:50 PM »
+1
Can someone name PTA's anachronistic jokes? I absolutely think this is one of them. Pretty convinced about "from the window to the wall" as well.
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wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #247 on: April 10, 2018, 11:33:03 PM »
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There should be an anachronistic thread, definitely...
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Lewton

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #248 on: April 11, 2018, 01:12:05 AM »
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Thanks for the responses.

I can't think of any other examples right now. I had forgotten about that one from The Master -- not the scene, of course, which is amazing, but just the song reference aspect. Even though PTA (jokingly?) acknowledged that idea on Twitter, I'm still not sure it was a deliberate reference.

Bleep

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #249 on: April 14, 2018, 07:51:04 AM »
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Please pardon me if someone somewhere has already pointed out the following, but in the past week I watched the two films I mention below and had a "revelation" or two:

1. “You Little So and So” -- Marlene’s second song in Blonde Venus (1932), dir. Josef von Sternberg.

[Josef von Sternberg was, to remind, a -- or "the" -- "Kubrick" of the early days, in a series of ways, so to speak.] [If you haven't seen Shanghai Express (1932), please WATCH IT THIS VERY MOMENT and enjoy the show!]

2. Pin Up Girl (1944), a charming, lighthearted comedy starring Betty Grable. One integral scene involves Betty standing behind a man who is talking to another man about her without knowing that she is in the room and listening. This makes me think that such a conceit is probably a staple of classic comedy movies. [Hence, one more "screwball comedy" element in PT.]

Stay well.

Lewton

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #250 on: April 14, 2018, 02:24:52 PM »
+1
Speaking of the "so and so" line, J. Hoberman's review of Phantom Thread, which only showed up recently, alerted me to something which might have been obvious to others, but definitely flew over my head. He mentions the punny connection between "so and so" and "sew and sew."


Bleep

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #251 on: April 17, 2018, 08:18:12 AM »
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Two general points:

1. Woodcock adding "Never Cursed" to the wedding dress suggests (doesn't it?) that he considers himself cursed (e.g., as a child he was brought up by "Black Death"). [There is something in his past, or his sister wouldn't be able to threaten to best him in any verbal conflict . . . right?]

2. There are a number of thematic correspondences with The Accidental Tourist. For example, early on in the movie:

William Hurt: "I'm not muffled. I endure. I'm holding steady."
Kathleen Turner: "I know you think that, but I think you're fooling yourself."

. . . And (coincidentally?) right after this scene we see W.H. lathering up to shave.

One sharp example: both films feature the woman feeding the man a drug in order to keep him. . . . ("You know I don't take pills." "This time you do." . . . "Those things are deadly." . . .)

Drenk

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #252 on: April 17, 2018, 08:30:20 AM »
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That "Never Cursed" thing kills me. I don't think he entirely believes it, but that he opens the possibility for once that he was never cursed. He wants to believe it. And maybe he wasn't even formulating to himself that he thought of himself as cursed. The thoughts were in his head but not formed. That's why writing the words is such a powerful act.

It's also bittersweet in a way because the past will always be tainted by his previous superstition and how it dictated his life. Which is also a belief he had to have in order to live the way he did. And then you have Anderson who's able to capture how calm and yet charged and special this moment is. It's a testimony to how special his love for Alma is, and that she discovers the message is overwhelming.

I'm so many people.

Bleep

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #253 on: May 01, 2018, 04:55:40 PM »
+1
Hello, friends. Just thought I'd post this pic, for two "pertinent" reasons. (1) The soft colors recall the soft colors of the ceiling-stored bolts of fabric in the Alma measuring scene; and (2) the artist's name is Nikoline Liv . . . Andersen!

Stay well everyone.

Bleep

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #254 on: May 02, 2018, 05:55:45 PM »
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WOODCOCK: “Stop!”

Ἀγαμέμνων: οὔτοι γυναικός ἐστιν ἱμείρειν μάχης.
AGAMEMNON: (Indeed not) (woman) (is who) (desires) (battle).
AGAMEMNON: Women are undesirable when they desire battle.
Aeschylus, Agamemnon, line 940.

 

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