Whiplash

[Gold Trumpet]

Dance of Reality's problem for me is that the symbolism was dumb and obvious.

[jenkins]

My main issue was the dumb ideas
The film was not patient enough to dramatize a more likely subtle and lengthy
That would have required more attention to small moments and focus

yeah, it's a thing you don't like. i hear ya. it's so gross, all those themes lying on the surface, all the eviscerated emotions of dumb obvious people, littered across the pretty screen. ye-uck. me, i love it, i consider it an x-ray into the soul of the person. which i don't think would be called an x-ray. must be chakras i'm thinking about. love 'em

[BB]

but my problem wasn't lack of authenticity - or rather, it was lack of knowledge that resulted in overwrought scenes and acting because the director was bored with his own subject.

I don't know that the director was necessarily bored by his subject; more that the subject and desired themes run in opposition to one another at times. In Full Metal Jacket say, the "dehumanizing abuse of power" stuff works despite "unrealistic" performances/stylization/etc because it's credible in the real world context. It may not be REAL, but it's authentic enough. Here, that's simply not the case and so, much of the juicy stuff is affected. The feelings are real, but they're not arrived at in a realistic/authentic way. The film overcompensates to get its point across.

Most of the objectors would probably be cool with the unbelievability if the plot didn't click so damn loud. I don't think anyone is asking this to be a literal movie (SPOILERS obviously the final showdown is a preposterous situation, the family dinner wouldn't be so outrageously bald-faced, among other things SPOILERS OVER). I can still dig it, but I see why people would take issue.

[jenkins]

so it shoulda been like pta. so it shoulda been like kubrick. so it was dumb like other dumb things. various insults against the movie are true or true enough, but imma say they're matters of taste. if i can feel the movie and feel the person behind the movie while watching the movie, i like the movie

[BB]

Nah nah, man.

Not shoulda been like Kubrick at all. Just saying the setting. Coulda said This Boy's Life.

[pete]

well I think the car crash (which I completely forgot about) was a fine example. it's just something loud and brash that really has nothing to do with what the story is about. the movie is unable to show the difference between good playing and bad playing so as a result it needs to contrive blood and sticks being dropped and music not being in front of you and essentially all these situations in place of drama. so really it's about the most bumbling person in a universe of bumbling people, on his bumbling pursuits, and how he bumbles less in the end, rather than about anything that's actually internal or psychological.

I think the reason for all this praise has to do with how few movies of this genre are available to Americans. the last one that I remember was Black Swan (a much better film). So we become a lot more forgiving of whiplash's contrivances because we are convinced that without a car crash or three instances of people throwing and punching stuff, a story actually can't be told. I don't know, it's not that I hate this movie or anything. I thought some scenes are great, but I just feel like it's more generic than it needs to be and is not as rare as people think it is.

ps that bourne shot in which the truck appears from the driver side window crash gag is this generation's wide shot of guy walks down the street and gets sideswiped by a truck gag.

[jenkins]

spoiler fest

i first remember the shot from adaptation. and yeah, i see it all the time now. if there's an interior shot of a person driving a car and i can see out the driver's window, i assume there's an impending collision. does anyone have a pre-adaptation example of this shot?

[pete]

SPOILERFEST TOO
does that dude get hit by a car in all his movies?

[Axolotl]

SPOIL3RS
And in real life.
via Punch
"[Miles Teller] was in a near-fatal car accident in 2007, leaving him with multiple scars on his face and neck."

[polkablues]

To its credit, it was a beautifully executed version of that hyper-cliched car crash shot. Maybe the best since Let Me In.

[03]

ok.

so you guys have made me feel really really stupid with all of these reviews.
i'm really hoping that i'm not, and you guys are retarded.

but what i'm coming away from all of this criticism and attempting to decipher everything said, and again i apologize if this sounds naive, but this is just stupefying to me.

are you guys really complaining that a fictional movie wasn't realistic?

i mean, im sorry if i'm being dumb here, but this is ridiculous.
its a fucking movie and its really really good. its not a biopic or a documentary.
its fiction, and its a great cinematic achievement. it does what you expect movies to do and what they are SUPPOSED TO DO and i dont understand why that's a problem for anyone, let alone my friends on this board.

and since others went there, ima fuckin go there too.

i thought the master was a great movie but does the director realize that a human being cannot physically drink those kind of chemical concoctions frequently and survive?
that would never happen in a real army, amirite you guys?

[polkablues]

It doesn't have to be realistic, it has to ring true.

[BB]

are you guys really complaining that a fictional movie wasn't realistic?

No, and I don't get why this is the counter argument. I think everyone is more or less in agreement that this is a good, even very good movie. But it's got a few key scenes that come off as contrived to some viewers. The sort of narrative coddling/deck stacking that some saw recently in Interstellar and shat all over uncontested. Some of these problems may stem from unbelievability, but that's not why they matter.

[jenkins]

stahhhp it. we're all gonna agree to disagree and don't make me repeat things

[BB]

Sought out Guy and Madeline on a Park Bench. Hell of a picture. Crazy that it's the same dude. Anybody seen it?