Dragon Dynasty News and Discussion (+ Celestial Pictures)

[Pas]

Thanks for the pointers guys !

I have been into chinese cinema for a while but I've been having a string of bad luck lately with transfers that are so lame that the movie cannot be enjoyed (looked like someone had filmed a theater screen ! Rarescope got me twice with this and then the worst is St-Clair Entertainment)

Though a couple years ago I had bought about 5-6 VCDs in France of the Shaw Bros and was amazed at the high quality. In the batch I had Clan of the White Lotus, Martial Club, Praying Mantis (some guy learns kung fu by watching a mantis in the forest, the mantis itself looks very real yet mechanical, it's really awesoe) and 36th Chamber 1 and 2

In more modern ones I loved Dragon Inn.

I will be picking up One-Armed Swordsman today and let you guys know.

Do you guys have like a set of ''must-have'' to advise me ? Also, I don't like so much the ones that are in modern times so far but feel free to give me pointers towards the really good ones. (I didn't like Hard Boiled all that much, but I liked a Better Tomorrow)

[pete]

I'm a big lau karleung fan, so Heroes of the East, My Young Auntie, Mad Monkey Kungfu, Legendary Weapons of China and The Eight-Diagram Pole Fighter are all classics to me.
For Chor Yuen, I rather like Death Duel, and I heard Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre is great.
I like Chang Cheh, but I can't really recommend a movie right now for some reason - they all kinda blend together for me.  Shinwa, a fellow Shaw follower on this board, can probably recommend a ton of stuff.

then you've gotta move either backwards for the King Hu epics or forward to the Tsui Hark and Jackie Chan stuff!

[Pas]

I'm a big lau karleung fan, so Heroes of the East

Thanks for all the suggestions

I just blind bought Heroes of the East, Come Drink with Me and One Armed Swordsman. I'll let you know asap

[pete]

oh for chang cheh, get flag or iron. I'd link you to a youtube scene but I'm afraid of spoiling the movies for you.
it'll be cool to open up some real discussions on kungfu films, 'cause it's something that I think about all the time. 

[Pas]

Heroes of the East felt more like a demonstration than a movie, but still was good. It was chauvinistic to death, pretending a single chinese can defeat all the masters of different styles of Japan martial arts, but we got the point that the japanese were too focused on strenght while the chinese were flexible.

I wouldn't say this is what I look for in a martial arts movie though. Gordon Liu's films that I've seen so far, while being impressive, lack the grit to make me stay interested in the story. Even if you want your hero to be wise and merciful, there is a way to make that feel really kick ass and overpower instead of just : ''we don't want blood in this movie''

I assumed that instead of these guys being the Masters of Japan they are just some student in a rival school and it made the movie easier to swallow. Also, that kendo expert, while supposedly having the samurai philosophy, really didn't. If the point of the movie was to show the moral superiority of chinese martial arts (which is said at the end), a realistic expose on the samurai life would've been in order. Anyway no matter.

I look forward to One Armed Swordsman and Come Drink With Me that I will be watching tomorrow night.

[Pas]

Holy shit.

That was awesome. To say One Armed Swordsman is one of the best martial arts film is an understatement, it is one of the best movies I've seen ! it has it all ! Strong themes of betrayal, honnor, clan and all the cool stuff. A PERFECT soundtrack, the best I've ever heard in a chinese movie. Very reminding of Ennio Morricone.

I loved this movie so much it's really inspiring me right now for variations of it.

The only flaw I can find is the kinda-lame-super-weapon of the ennemy.

Pete, what resembles this ??? I need MOAR as they say on porn forums

[Pas]

City of Violence

Fuck I had a good time watching this. I watched the french dub with a friend and we were on the edge of our seat. The kind of movie that you love the story but also you find it so fucking ridiculous you can't help laugh the whole time. There are priceless scenes and quotes in this movie. Also a homage to The Warriors. I said : ''woah that's an homage to The Warriors'' and then we saw the shirt of the guy and it was written on it ''Warriors'' so I was pretty proud to be validated since I'm an insecure jerk.

Good violence, good plot, good characters.... a very good film !

Pete for fuck's sake, I know you hate my review style but you said we'd have discussion about kung fu films man... come on shoot something !

[w/o horse]

The end of City of Violence is nuts.  The final all-out battle, with the consecutive, progressive challenges pieced together with like cigarette smoke wipes and room-by-room mayhem.  That's what I most remember about it.  And really that's the kind of stylistic carnage that makes Asian actions films have and deserve their reputation.

What did you do about Johnny To?  Did you ever see Exiled?  Or Election or Triad Election?  Exiled is more like City of Violence but Election and Triad Election are these kind of poetic, intimate and moody crime films.  I'm not saying To is the Melville of Asian cinema but I'm saying that Election and Triad Election make you think he could have been.

[pete]

I think I spoiled the city of violence for myself by watching the fighting first - I just could not fucking wait.  I like the director Ryoo Seung-Wan a lot - he's one of the two good guys - the younger looking one who wasn't a cop.  He's made a few very ridiculously violent films with very involving fights before.  I love his boxing epic Crying Fist - which combines Rocky with heartwrenching and backbreaking poverty.  I think one thing City of Violence does very well is the male-male relationships - it does not care if it comes off as homoerotic in spots and just kinda goes for them.  The Hong Kong movies after John Woo kinda stop going for it, and you can't really forge good chemistry or memorable heroes without going for it with no concern for homophobia.  This movie is a lot like old school kungfu movies in that respect.
It is also one of the handful of post-Kill Bill movies that feel the need to fight in a restaurant just to show up Tarantino.  The other really memorable post-Kill Bill big budget martial arts movie I can think of is Dragon Tiger Gate (which is a shitty movie with an awesomely spectacular opening fight).  But this one just has its own flavor.   The choreographer (who plays the cop) Jung doo-Hong has an intense style - as he combines high kicks with mayhem and frantic camerawork.  A lot of the climatic battle, even moreso than Kill Bill, relied on camera work and aggressive editing moreso than fight choreography.  The feeling is quite immersive.  One of the assistant stunt coordinators who shot parts of the outdoor mall fight came to train with my troupe about two winters ago, and that guy was on it.  He knew his shit.
My only complaint was that I wish the fights focused on the cool moves a little bit more, instead of honing in on the carnage.  The tiny fight in the police station was fun for that reason.
Korean movies though - that's a whole different genre.  The way they approach violence, street thuggery, and fighting in terms of aesthetics is very different from the Hong Kong guys.  They're like the Russian mob of action filmmaking.
For more stuff like that, but with guns and existentialism, check out A Bittersweet Life.  For a very funny and bittersweet Korean indie comedy about thugs and brawling, check out Attack the Gas Station.
Now onto Johnnie To.  I love him.  He handles violence and friendship with absolute cool.  Triad Election (is that the sequel?) is ok, but PTU, Exiled, and Election are masterpieces.  He's like if Melville and Takeshi Kitano had a baby.

[Pas]

Wow so many suggestions thanks ! I will check them all out and let you know because that thing about the russian mob of action movies really intrigues me !

[w/o horse]

PTU, BTW, had an incredibly bizarre atmosphere.  Still possessing the swelling tension of similar cop films it took a peculiarly idiosyncratic approach towards building that tension - it's not so much the characters or the plot that advances, but just the tension.  It's To's filmmaking that propels the film, and his sequences are the cinematic thundering presaging the final scene.  Like as if these people in the film have been burdened with the consequence of being trapped in a maze, To has told them they must make it to the exit, and he films them while they find their way.  This is how it feels to watch the film, and also from the commentary I learned that PTU was shot over a number of years without a script and most of the people in the film probably did not actually know what part they were playing in the narrative until they saw the film.  So it makes sense it'd feel this way.  It's also a successful, truly original film.

Another bizarre To was Running out of Time.  This as well begins with a conventional movie setup, the madman on the roof, then that plot element which you suppose will introduce a rivalry and a logical series of cop-bad guy chases actually becomes the starting point for the story troubled, dying, emotionally isolated antihero, the kind you see in so many American Indie films, but much more demented cinematically, because the backdrop here isn't suburbia but a Hong Kong action movie.

I have his Throwdown to watch next.  On the front of this dvd case it says "In the world of Judo, failure is not an option" and amidst the description on the rear it says "To's stylish homage to the great Japanese director Akira Kurosawa."

The kind of filmmaker who disregards all conventions in pursuit of energetic, original visions is the kind of filmmaker I love is the kind of filmmaker To is.

[Pas]

Kill Zone

Major letdown ... I expected a lot of this one. The story is very complicated and the translation sucked (even the subtitles)

The final fight was cool but I don't feel like I knew any characters and didn't care for them.

Next one is probably Internal Affairs or PTU ...

[pete]

haha I thought I'd warned someone about Kill Zone...guess not.  I did love that knife vs. stick fight at the end though...one of the best ever filmed.
Infernal Affairs is more or less The Departed - except all the dudes get to act real, real cool.  PTU has more character in terms of filmmaking and storytelling, you should check that one out.  Then move on to Johnnie To's more complicated opuses like Elections then finally Exiled.  I heard his new con-artist movie that takes place in the 60s is very good too.  but sometimes he goes out of his way to make commercial movies that aren't very good.  Don't know why.

[w/o horse]

Do you hear or know things about Tai Chi Master, either of you?  On paper it sounds like a must buy.

I watched The Prodigal Son recently.  It was my first experience with a great transfer and horrible subtitles.  Horrible, not bad, subtitles.  It wasn't a Dragon Dynasty release.  There's a sequence in The Prodigal Son that outperforms the rest of the movie - a sequence that begins with a silent intrusion, builds to murder, and culminates in a fiery confrontation.  It's amazing. 

I'm trying to build an appreciation for the fight sequences based on the level of fighting skill.  The problem is obviously that I'm not a fighter myself, so it makes me feel dilettantish.  When there's a cinematic sequence with beautiful cinematography or impressive editing I can identify, but when it's two guys (or nine thousand, whatever) fighting on screen and the major focus is simply the fighting it's tough for me to be critical or even comparative.

[Pas]

Tai Chi Master is another title for Twin Warriors, which you might know about.

It is really awesome, I don't see anyone not liking it. About you building your taste for fighting, I think this is one of the better ones. You'll see Michelle Yeoh's movement are so fluid and Jet Li really makes the impossible moves possible. It made me sign up for a Tai Chi class when I saw it as a teen. I don't need to say that I didn't go through with that.

I've not seen it in years but I'd say blind buy is a-ok. If you watch them dubbed, the old release as Twin Warriors is incredibly cheap if you can find it.