I'm both a massive Salinger and Anderson fan (my favourite author and director respectively), and when I watch Magnolia I get this really strong JD Salinger vibe. It's partly the whole purity of children thing ("It is not dangerous to confuse children with angels"), partly the childrens' gameshow/child genius thing ('What do Kids Know' is surely a reference to Salinger's Glass family show 'It's a Wise Child'), and partly the moments of sudden and random - almost Zen-like - realisation and enlightenment. I don't know. What does anyone elese think? Has PT ever mentioned JD?
If JD and PTA are your favorite author and director, then you are my new best friend.
I thank you kindly. What do you think about PTA's level of Salinger reference/ideology: is he a fan do you think...?
Nobody has any thoughts on this...? Okay!
I'm a HUGE fan of both Salinger and PTA, but I honestly never thought about it. Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised, especially with the 'Wise Child' connection. But its definitely not as overt as, say, The Royal Tennenbaums, which seems to wear its Glass family influence on its sleeve.
I've only red "The Catcher in the Rye" and I cant see any obvious connections between PTA and J.D Salinger. But Holden Caulfield has some of the same unchecked-agression as Barry Egan :-D
The connections would be more apparent in Franny & Zooey, any of the Nine Stories, and Raise High The Roofbeam, Carpenter.
Quote from: Sigur RósI've only red "The Catcher in the Rye" and I cant see any obvious connections between PTA and J.D Salinger. But Holden Cornfield has some of the same unchecked-agression as Barry Egan :-D
Caulfield man, Caulfield.
Salinger rocks. I love Nine Stories, I'll have to reread that and read Franny and Zooy which I never got around to. I do see some similarities though. It never would have struck me if I wasn't looking for it. I'm sure Anderson read at least Catcher, b/c everyone that went through high school had to read that book.
PTA and salinger are also my favorites, i totally saw the comparisons in magnolia and salingers work, my take most of salingers work is how kids are the only ginuine thing we have left and that they are all we have to try to save some of the profain things that come after we take the fall form grace....theres this great book on all this, i dont know if u guys have read it too: J.D. Salinger by: James Lundquist, its amazing. but i think pta and salinger think alot alike, minus some of the hermit tendencies- but i guess pta's still young. i also like how they both have similar "real life" diolage, and even in thier harsh realities of things, they fit in very very sureal moments, and spiritual discoveries through unusual things- very catcher in the rye and franny and zooey, and how even with alot of melodramatic things happening he fits in tons of great dry humor. yet i havent found many comparisons in boogie nights or punch drunk love, but hard eight i think has alot as well...the whole story just seams more focused on the characters and feelings than the story and i think jd salinger's stories are alot like that. but i do agree with another post that mention wes anderson. i think wes has probubly the strongest similarities to jd, however i feel, to be compared to jd, he takes the comedy alot farther and loses some of the feeling in a way that catcher in the rye and magnolia do not.
In an interview, PTA mentions loving/being influenced by Salinger, and I think he sighted Franny & Zooey.... but I'm not sure.
Quote from: GhostboyRaise High The Roofbeam, Carpenter.
Anyone red it? It's really great! I can't really see the PTA-connection though....
Quote from: children with angelsI'm both a massive Salinger and Anderson fan (my favourite author and director respectively), and when I watch Magnolia I get this really strong JD Salinger vibe. It's partly the whole purity of children thing ("It is not dangerous to confuse children with angels"), partly the childrens' gameshow/child genius thing ('What do Kids Know' is surely a reference to Salinger's Glass family show 'It's a Wise Child'), and partly the moments of sudden and random - almost Zen-like - realisation and enlightenment. I don't know. What does anyone elese think? Has PT ever mentioned JD?
If you love
Magnolia and Salinger and stories of disappointed "genius" expectations, you'll thoroughly enjoy Jonathan Franzen's
The Corrections. It's an excellent, highly readable book, and my love for it completely apart from him pissing Oprah off. That was just a bonus.
Oh, the childrens quiz in Raise High The Roofbeam, Carpenter= What do kids know! Hehe PTA is a thief!
Abbey Road: Couldn't agree more with your take on this stuff - it's like hearing me talk... Yeah, I read the Lundquist - superb... I love all the stuff he had to say about Salinger with relation to Zen Buddhism and enlightenment.
With reference to that, I've always thought there's a moment in Boogie Nights where there is that kind of moment of realisation that Salinger often has in his books (more obviously done by PTA in Magnolia with the frogs): the moment when Dirk and co are doing the drug deal and there's this long, long lingering shot on his face as he thinks about what's going on around him and with his life. Following it he immediately gets up and says, "Listen, man: we better get going..."
Godardian: I've never heard of that book - must check it out...
SoNowThen: I knew it! Do you have any idea what that interview was in? I would LOVE to read it... I've always gone on about this connection and people have just looked at me blankly...
Yer comparing Salinger to the wrong Anderson...
...try Wes (The Royal Tennenbaums, specifically).
Yeah, that's been brought up, and I agree - but although the subject matter of Wes' films may have more of an obvious connection, I feel the heart at the centre of PTA's movies, the feelings I get from them, have more in common with J.D. When I finished watching Magnolia for the first time, I felt an emotion I hadn't had since the first time I closed Catcher in the Rye. So happy, so sad, just - I don't know - pure emotion...
Yes. I agree absolutely completely. Reading the last line in Catcher ("...you start missing everybody") is akin to Claudia smiling into camera. Like the man said, Pure Emotion. And beautiful.
and Holden wanting to stand on the cliff and be the Catcher in the Rye... that's just like Jim wanting to help/forgive Claudia and Donnie Smith. This wonderful naivette of someone who wants to love people so much probably because it's the kind of love they wish someone would give to them. And then that makes me think of Holden wanting to call Jane....
and on and on
Totally. If there was a teenage character in Magnolia, spanning the gap between childhood and adulthood that's so clearly set up in the movie, it could easily be Holden.
I thought PTA got the idea for the game show in magnolia from his PA TV days.
Quote from: EL__SCORCHOI thought PTA got the idea for the game show in magnolia from his PA TV days.
Yeah, I don't think we're talking about "influences" or where he got the idea from here (though he does mention the Glass family in the
Magnolia screenplay interview) so much as parallel themes/emotional responses we have. And in that case, PTA and Salinger don't seem terribly unlikely.
I do agree with the people who say Wes is closer to a direct Salinger parallel, with the quirks and foibles of the characters thrown into sharp relief and viewed with a certain affectionate but sardonic sadness. PTA is almost
too emotional to be compared very directly with Salinger; their ways of getting at the emotions are fairly distinct from one another, whereas I think Wes utilizes a similar approach to the characters, a bit more dispassionate.
For example, I think the scene with Luke Wilson attempting suicide and post-attempt would've been very, very, very different if done by PTA. [/i]
cwa and SoNowThen are pretty convincing above on the PTA/Magnolia/Salinger topic. I don't think I see it in the rest of PTA's work, though...not much at least.
This is a very fucking cool thread. You're all right-though Wes is clearly more pronounced, because there's something quite humorous about Salinger's Holden, and also quite odd and disconcerting; the same holds true for Wes's characters, whereas Anderson definitely spins a darker, more passionate tale about essentially the same 'brand' of people, if you'll pardon grouping. :wink:
Quote from: punchdrunk23PTA definitely spins a darker, more passionate tale about essentially the same 'brand' of people, if you'll pardon grouping. :wink:
Well......
Characters from Magnolia who wouldn't be caught dead in Salinger's fiction:
- Jimmy Gator
- Frank T.J. Mackie
- Linda Partridge
- The woman who interviews Frank
- Rick Spector (Stanley's Dad)
Neurotic, selfish people aren't Salinger's common stock. Neither are media types. His character's are quirky intellectuals, by and large, interrupted by sensitive savants (like Holden).
I guess I can see some Salinger qualities in some of Magnolia's themes...too much of a disconnected/connected ensemble, though, to be really close to the Salinger ethos.
Ug, I hated Catcher in the Rye....what a bunch of whiny crap.
If I hadn't related to it more than anything I've ever read/seen/heard I'd probably say the same thing.
Quote from: children with angelsIf I hadn't related to it more than anything I've ever read/seen/heard I'd probably say the same thing.
same here
Catcher was the first thing I read of his, too, and I also thought it was sorta whiny. But then I read everything else he'd ever written (that's in print, at least) and loved it, and when I went back to Catcher, I saw it in a new light and loved it too.
I think Catcher is wonderful- the whininess really goes away by the time you've reached the end of the book, I think, and can see the character's observations in perspective- but I actually prefer Nine Stories and Franny and Zooey. Especially Franny and Zooey
Quote from: neatahwantaUg, I hated Catcher in the Rye....what a bunch of whiny crap.
Sure you do!
the first time i read catcher in the rye i was ten and didnt really understand it all, but i lovd it even then. the wes anderson corhilation to salinger is mor evident, true, but all of wes' films are pretty much branded as comedies, where most of the scenes and character flaws re played for laughs-i love all of his films, but thats how i see them, and thats nothing atall like salinger, even though things come offfuny in his stories theyre not at all jut trying to make u laugh, theyre almost all about a spiritual journey and trying to come to grip with how crappy life can be somtime, and in the end how u have to lern to put up with what bothers u cause thats life, and deepdon lifes a beautiful thing. and that whoe idea, that deeper idea, is definety at the core of alllll of PTA's films, and thats why i think theres such a strong similarity....and they both just rule!
Quote from: MeshQuote from: punchdrunk23PTA definitely spins a darker, more passionate tale about essentially the same 'brand' of people, if you'll pardon grouping. :wink:
Well......
Characters from Magnolia who wouldn't be caught dead in Salinger's fiction:
- Jimmy Gator
- Frank T.J. Mackie
- Linda Partridge
- The woman who interviews Frank
- Rick Spector (Stanley's Dad)
Neurotic, selfish people aren't Salinger's common stock. Neither are media types. His character's are quirky intellectuals, by and large, interrupted by sensitive savants (like Holden).
I guess I can see some Salinger qualities in some of Magnolia's themes...too much of a disconnected/connected ensemble, though, to be really close to the Salinger ethos.
Well......
I guess I should have explained myself a little more. What the two casts of characters have in common are a great inner pain,
especially Holden.
And I wasn't comparing Salinger's other characters to Anderson's...Holden, man,
Holden...... :roll:
salinger is also my favorite author. we all have too much in common. three goes being unique. did anyoen notice a character in NINE STORIES named Tenenbaum? we claims to know an actual tenenbaum though.
Sorry to revive an age-old thread, but I could do with some help if people are willing.
I'm working on an article in which, as an aside, I'm referring to the relationship between PTA and J D Salinger. In this thread people thought that PTA had mentioned Salinger in an interview or two - in particular Godardian thought it came up in the Magnolia screenplay intro. If anyone was able to give me any actual quotes to this effect, I would be seriously grateful. Thanks!
PTA said something along the lines of "Who isn't influenced by JD Salinger now a days". They were talking about Wes Anderson's film's and the interviewer flipped it on him.
Magnolia
Director Paul Thomas Anderson has talked about his inspiration for the children's game show as coming from his own work as a P.A. on such a show and his knowledge of the Glass family. "Doing that [show] really linked up with the J.D. Salinger short stories, with the Glass Family, and their involvement with a show like Quiz Kids."
from: http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/moviesandtv/archive/2010/01/29/r-i-p-jerome-david-salinger-1919-2010.aspx
Thanks for the responses guys.
Quote from: md on March 03, 2010, 02:13:50 PM
PTA said something along the lines of "Who isn't influenced by JD Salinger now a days". They were talking about Wes Anderson's film's and the interviewer flipped it on him.
Any idea what interview this was?
Quote from: classical gas on March 03, 2010, 02:53:14 PM
Director Paul Thomas Anderson has talked about his inspiration for the children's game show as coming from his own work as a P.A. on such a show and his knowledge of the Glass family. "Doing that [show] really linked up with the J.D. Salinger short stories, with the Glass Family, and their involvement with a show like Quiz Kids."
from: http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/moviesandtv/archive/2010/01/29/r-i-p-jerome-david-salinger-1919-2010.aspx
I'd come across this from my Googling - I tried to find the source of their quote but came up with nothing. Does anyone recognise where this might have come from? Anyone who owns the Magnolia screenplay maybe know if it's from the interview in that?
Quote from: children with angels on March 03, 2010, 05:14:09 PMAnyone who owns the Magnolia screenplay maybe know if it's from the interview in that?
Yes.
Q:What was it that attracted you to the world of games shows?I'd worked once as a P.A. on a game show called
Quiz Kids Challenge, an update of an old radio show. Part of my job was to go through and edit together videotape of all the kids they'd interviewed across the country as potential contestants. Doing that really linked up with the J.D. Salinger short stories, with the Glass family, and their involvement with a show like
Quiz Kids. This idea of, hey, let us go through you and pick your brain and use it for entertainment. All that coupled with wanting to see Philip Baker Hall do a new kind of role, and especially to see him do something like a game-show host.
But it also all touches on the idea of what it means to grow up in L.A., but not be a part of the industry -- or to only hold the most marginal relationship to it.
Bingo! Thanks so much MacGuffin - as always, you are our fact-checkin cuz.
This is something small someone showed me a while ago but still:
Mr. Anderson (above) said that Mr. Cruise had called him after seeing ''Boogie Nights'' in London, while making Stanley Kubrick's ''Eyes Wide Shut.'' Coincidentally Mr. Anderson was in London, and Mr. Cruise invited him to the movie set to meet Kubrick. (''It was like meeting J. D. Salinger,'' Mr. Anderson said. ''I was thrilled.'')
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/08/movies/at-the-movies-boogie-writer-back-in-valley.html
Oh snap. GOOD FIND.
it just means meeting someone reclusive.
oh snap. GOOD SAVE.