Terminator: Salvation

[private witt]

ah man, private witt, you just butchered the bill hicks bit.

Well, since I wasn't trying to quote Bill Hicks I guess that's not really true.

[private witt]

i don't doubt you believe it. i just think you're grasping at vague straws to sustain your belief.

I'll remember that one.

[john]

Artists who have directed commercials:
David Lynch
David Fincher
Wes Anderson
Sophia Coppola
Michel Gondry
Ridley Scott
Terry Gilliam
Michael Mann
Spike Jonze
Baz Luhrmann

Thinking back on BMW's short film series used solely to promote their cars, Witt's gonna have to add (among others) Wong Kar-Wai, John Frankenheimer, Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, Ang Lee, and John Woo to the list of directors who are no longer artists.  Not to mention cinematographers like Robert Richardson and Harris Savides.

Now Witt, I'm not arguing against your principles on this subject. They do seem a bit tenuous, but they are at least idealistic and - fuck it - you've got the right to believe what you want to believe.

But how exhausting and, ultimately, boring film must be if you establish these kind of rules for who is or who isn't an artist.

Peter Bogdanovich might seem like an utter waste and a total bore now, but I wouldn't use that to discredit the tremendous beauty and unrivaled contribution to cinema that was The Last Picture Show and Paper Moon. Martin Scorsese might be hawking American Express cards, but that doesn't lessen Raging Bull or Taxi Driver in the slightest. I probably don't need to further articulate the reasoning behind these examples but it is this:

A great piece of art, and the person who made it, can't really be compromised by anything they do before or afterward. It's singular, and exists on it's own. It's not defined by any rules regarding ethics or morality that we might try to hold the artist accountable too. Spike Lee can sell as many Nike's as he want, and I will still think his artistic credibility is unrivaled just for Do The Right Thing alone.

Besides, John Cassavetes' Burger King spots were fucking hil-ar-i-ous.

[private witt]

Well said, I was in no way saying that I think their films suffer from doing adspots, merely that I don't view them in the same way.  Not every great film has to be made by a quote unquote artist.  And there are so many, many people involved in the making of a film besides the director that do work in commercial aspects that it does become a pretty grey area. 

[bonanzataz]

Besides, John Cassavetes' Burger King spots were fucking hil-ar-i-ous.

fuck you for having me google that just now.

[Pas]

I see where privatewitt is coming from. Doing commercials is not being an artist but being a seller. You are promoting a product for money.

But that doesn't mean the person who does it isn't an artist.

It's like saying a painter who has a job as a waiter is not an artist anymore...

[RegularKarate]

I see where he's coming from, but he's obviously new at having this sort of viewpoint, which makes me think he's pretty young.  He just got into punkrock and "calling out the man"... he just stopped listening to the radio... he just got back from his first concert that he could go to without his parents, etc...

He'll figure out the other side eventually.

This is the problem with the internet and message boards, it's hard to take back what you've learned otherwise since.

[Gold Trumpet]

I see where he's coming from, but he's obviously new at having this sort of viewpoint, which makes me think he's pretty young.  He just got into punkrock and "calling out the man"... he just stopped listening to the radio... he just got back from his first concert that he could go to without his parents, etc...

He'll figure out the other side eventually.

This is the problem with the internet and message boards, it's hard to take back what you've learned otherwise since.

I was convinced he was 17 until I saw his myspace (linked on his profile) and I think he's 27 or 28. It changed my perspective on his posting.

[pete]

and he's an asshole for making people defend mcg or at least on principles.  I think that's the reason for the inactivity on the board lately - everyone's opinion on cinema is pretty in sync now, after four or five years of duking it out, and we argue only about the individual cases - ie. how one liked this film vs. another.  every once in a while some kid (he's allegedly my age?) comes in and day after day bombards people's time-killers with stupid comments that are meant to incite reaction.  Only they're different from what he's expected, meaning most of people's reactions are along the lines of "dude it's cute you're saying this, but we've all pretty much gotten over it about 13 or 14 years ago", at which point, the kid thinks he's done his job, and, not even understanding the collective POV of the seven or eight people who've just respectfully (maybe?) disagreed with him, re-iterates the same stupid points, because he's only thinking controversy, and states even more obvious things and tired jokes (and sometimes nice photographs).  But somehow we all keep on writing back anyways - just as we keep on replying to neon's inane political rants, because it's a messageboard.  It's a sad month for this board - out goes Cron, in comes this garbage disposal.  He claims his threads with the same hubris as some of our other newbies, but his Local Paper Movie Critic/ Film 101 opinions and his abysmal sense of humor makes everything surprisingly non-entertaining.  Which is too bad, 'cause, when I catch breaks at work or come home late, I wanna be in the company of relatively intelligent film discussions (which this great city of San Francisco truly lacks), but lately it's just been all about this lonely egomaniac's attempt to tell us shit we've all thought about as teenagers.

[Stefen]

I applaud private witt for giving us something to talk about. You can't deny he's made the board more active with his polarizing persona.

Also, let's not forget that everyone is annoying until they reach a certain post count. His is just going to be higher than most.

[picolas]

I applaud private witt for giving us something to talk about. You can't deny he's made the board more active with his polarizing persona.

pete isn't denying that. he's saying most of the new activity is a frustrating waste of time.

[pete]

I applaud private witt for giving us something to talk about. You can't deny he's made the board more active with his polarizing persona.

Also, let's not forget that everyone is annoying until they reach a certain post count. His is just going to be higher than most.

I know you love this kind of shit, but dude, we've got that other new kid wide angle who is stirring up actual discussions.  Everyone comes in with obnoxious hubris, it's a film board, you've gotta have enough thoughts bottled up in you for you to go out of your way to find a messageboard and spend time on it, but that in itself is hardly a virtue.  don't be so easily amused.  this kid, incidentally, is like the mcg of posters.

[private witt]

and he's an asshole for making people defend mcg or at least on principles.

It's cute how you call people names to show your anger.

[private witt]

I see where he's coming from, but he's obviously new at having this sort of viewpoint

Oh tell me, inquisitor, how you came to deduce such a thing.

[Pozer]

really? keeping it going? pushing 30 and still doing this? really? you're older than me? really? you're still here? i'm still here while you're still here? really?