One of the first Allen films that I saw was Shadows and Fog and I liked it very much...then I discovered it's generally considered a "bad" Woody Allen movie...I don't get it...I saw it yesterday again and everything about it is perfect...The jokes are effective (more effective than in a lot woody movies), the acting is excellent, the cast is amazing, and above all, the cinematography...it's one of the most beautiful cinematography works in all of allen's filmography...
So for me its Shadows and Fog...
what about you guys?
Interiors
Crimes And Misdemeanors
Celebrity, followed by Husbands and Wives. Deconstructing Harry is starting to grow on me.
As for Over-rated, how about Bullets Over Broadway.
Hhhhhmmmm.... Love & Death (I only mention it because people don't take it that seriously becauseit's one of the early funny ones, but it's one of the best damn comedies I've ever seen)
Interiors
Stardust Memories
Radio Days
Another Woman
Shadows & Fog
Manhattan Murder Mistery
Celebrity
Sweet and Lowdown
The others pretty much get the recognition they deserve, I think. As for me, I think only a few don't really work: Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex, September and Hollywood Ending...
Sweet and Lowdown, Zelig and The purple rose of cairo are wonderful... I just got the dvd of the sleeper and i'm starting to like.
and the most over rated: might aphrodite :?
Radio Days, Zelig, Celebrity
Quoteand the most over rated: might aphrodite
tsc tsc..... that film is wonderful
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaumQuoteand the most over rated: might aphrodite
tsc tsc..... that film is wonderful
I can understand the choir and all but Mira Survino? She ruined everything i could love in the movie! thank heaven she grabbed that oscar and disappeared...
(i got the same felling for Jernnifer Tilly in Bullets over Broadway but at least she is damn funny)
Everyone Says I Love You
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaumQuoteand the most over rated: might aphrodite
tsc tsc..... that film is wonderful
Yea, I love it too. Michael Rappaport nailed his role, seriously...really really funny stuff.
Gotta go with Sweet and Lowdown. I think most people agree it's pretty good, but it never got the mainstream recognition it should have.
Quote from: MacGuffinCrimes And Misdemeanors
I think is one of his most celebrated films.......I mean for critics is right up there with Manhattan, Annie Hall and Hannah and her Sisters, right???
Yeah, Interiors is a masterpiece in my opinion...
Sweet and Lowdown deserved better...
Quote from: AlexandroQuote from: MacGuffinCrimes And Misdemeanors
I think is one of his most celebrated films.......I mean for critics is right up there with Manhattan, Annie Hall and Hannah and her Sisters, right???
You didn't specify for critics or not. And it doesn't seem like anyone is agreeing with me, hence, my choice would be valid. You could ask anyone: best Woody Allen film and the three you listed would be tops. "Crimes" wouldn't necessarily come to mind.
Quote from: CinephileEveryone Says I Love You
agree
and Celebrity
small time crooks
and mighty aphrodite is wonderful
my mom really likes alice.
It's sad that out of all the films Woody Allen has done, we've listed about 60-65% of his films as being underrated.
I think that as long as Husbands and Wives doesn't sit firmly at the top of the list, it's being underrated.
There's also Stardust Memories, which is my third favorite Woody but is downright vilified in some quarters.
I used to hate Stardust, but after re-watching it this week, I think it's fucking brilliant.
"You wanna help humanity? Tell funnier jokes."
woody' most underrated are his newer films, or at least films from the 90's:
Everyone says i love you
Sweet and Lowdown
Deconstructing Harry
I think every decade woody comes out with a span of great films. and the 90's are no different. I've heard that he lost it after 'husbands and wives', but the ones mentioned above rival most of anything he's done before. they're no 'crimes and misdeamenors' or 'manhattan' but they're damn good. i just hope his new film coming out this fall will be up to par with his greats. it does have chloe sevigny, and i've never known her to do a bad film, in which i mean, a bad, mainstream film; she's been in risky independent films that aren't so great, but in woody's hands, with her, it can't be that bad.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: AlexandroQuote from: MacGuffinCrimes And Misdemeanors
I think is one of his most celebrated films.......I mean for critics is right up there with Manhattan, Annie Hall and Hannah and her Sisters, right???
You didn't specify for critics or not. And it doesn't seem like anyone is agreeing with me, hence, my choice would be valid. You could ask anyone: best Woody Allen film and the three you listed would be tops. "Crimes" wouldn't necessarily come to mind.
I personally think Crimes and Misdemeanors is his best film...next is Manhattan...
QuoteI think every decade woody comes out with a span of great films. and the 90's are no different. I've heard that he lost it after 'husbands and wives', but the ones mentioned above rival most of anything he's done before. they're no 'crimes and misdeamenors' or 'manhattan' but they're damn good. i just hope his new film coming out this fall will be up to par with his greats. it does have chloe sevigny, and i've never known her to do a bad film, in which i mean, a bad, mainstream film; she's been in risky independent films that aren't so great, but in woody's hands, with her, it can't be that bad.
I totally agree. I mean, in the 70s we had Love &Death, Annie Hall, Interiors and Manhattan. The 80s brought Stardust Memories, Zelig,The Purple Rose of Cairo, Hannah and her Sisters, Radio Days, Another Woman and Crimes and Misdemeanors. And the 90s were no diferent, I mean, Husbands & Wives, Manhattan Murder Mistery, Bullets Over Broadway, Mighty Aphrodite, Everyone Says I Love You, Deconstructing Harry, Celebrity and Sweet And Lowdown... damn, this is why I really like Woody Allen as a director. Because to me, he has great films all over his career. He makes them really good and very regularly.
Pitty that the 00s didn't bring us a Allen masterpiece yet, but that will come soon, I believe.
I think that What's Up Tiger Lilly is his most under appreciated work... heck, even HE has disowned this film!!!! It's pure humor, though.
His films are so small that it's easy for anybody to look at any of them as being underrated. But as much as I love Interiors, I think since DVD it's begun to find an audience. The one I would point to is Another Woman. It's so obscure I never even knew it came out until I stumbled across it in the video store mid-90s. It's very much like Wild Strwberries, to a certain extent, but it just had a wonderfully restrained, yet content quality about it. Great performance by Gena Rowlands too. Very Bergman. Sven even shot it I think.
As for Tiger Lilly... "Wait! Give me back my vibrator!"
Yeah, I think his serious dramas are generally underrated, although I've never really cared for September, but I'd like to see it again. Interiors, I think, as a fantastic performance by Diane Keaton. And Gordon Willis shot it really beautifully.
"Shadows & Fog," the new film from Woody Allen, is even less substantial than its title. No matter how you slice it, there's nothing to grab onto here -- it's a bowl of steam. Never in Allen's career has his work seemed murkier or more inchoate. It's as if the movie itself had never emerged from the pea soup of the director's own head.
Allen is a puzzlement, and his performance here stands well as a metaphor for how lost as an artist he is. By every stylistic choice, Allen indicates that his comic goal is a kind of Eastern European-style shtetl surrealism in which the fantastic and the magical cohabitate with the banal.
By Hal Hinson
Washington Post Staff Writer
March 20, 1992
Annie Hal.l
WOW too much to HANDLE there..
Well, maybe that cat deserved it...
No, he didn't... he was inocent
Quote from: luctruffDeconstructing Harry...
underrated?? :shock:
hahaha HE DID DESERVE IT!! damn cats.. :twisted: :roll: :shock:
Quote from: Vile5Quote from: luctruffDeconstructing Harry...
underrated?? :shock:
What? That movie is great. obvious bergman rip off, but we can allow woody and only woody to do that.
i think that woody allen in general is underrated. people that like him, they like most of his stuff, if not all, but people who hate him, hate all of his stuff; so the guy in general is underrated.
Quote from: governor jimi think that woody allen in general is underrated. people that like him, they like most of his stuff, if not all, but people who hate him, hate all of his stuff; so the guy in general is underrated.
Yeah, that's basically that. And since Woody Allen films don't do 100 million at the box-office, we can assume that there are more people who don't like Woody Allen than those who like... so are all his films underrated? They might be... not by me, though...
Quote from: luctruffQuote from: Vile5Quote from: luctruffDeconstructing Harry...
underrated?? :shock:
What? That movie is great. obvious bergman rip off, but we can allow woody and only woody to do that.
you got me wrong, it was a surprise for me read that it was underrated, in Peru is considered as one of the best Allen's movies, and i really loved it... so underrated??
who was?? :evil:
Quote from: Vile5you got me wrong, it was a surprise for me read that it was underrated, in Peru is considered as one of the best Allen's movies, and i really loved it... so underrated??
who was??
Actually, I remember the VHS cover of "Harry" said that it was Woody's film that made more money in portuguese theaters. I always felt the movie had the respect it deserved. I love it.
The reason Deconstructing Harry stands above his late films is because it was the last one that actually seemed to have come from HIM -- if you follow. It was the last one that felt like he actually had the urgency to make. There was a rudeness, an anger about it, similar to Husbands & Wives (Now that's underrated!). But a lot of people were saying that was the end of his self-analysis in film. That was the film where that came full circle. He's content now. His neurosis on film now look like schtick, as opposed to expression.
Celebrity excepted, I agree.
I think Mutinyco made an interesting point there. Then SoNowThen added Celebrity into the mix and I would add Sweet and Lowdown. That, I think, is his greatest last movie and it works for me because it was made with really great passion for the subject and it's so sweet and funny. He also needed to make that movie, although for diferent reasons as Deconstructing Harry. But I still hope Allen needs to make another one of those movies a la Woody (remember that Stardust Memories was as angry and cynical as Deconstructing Harry).
Those three movies (Deconstructing Harry, Celebrity and Sweet and Lowdown) are better cause they're actually about something...not only about the silly premise and the one liners (Small Time Crooks, Curse of the Jade Scorpion).
Deconstructing Harry was Allen's peak on the 90's...it's one of his best films, for me second after Crimes and Misdemeanors...
and I insist, Shadows and Fog is underrated....
So basically we can all agree that dreamworks ruined Woody, yes?
Quote from: SoNowThenSo basically we can all agree that dreamworks ruined Woody, yes?
In a sense, yes. Only because his Dreamworks movies were not that great (haven't seen Anything Else yet). But I don't think that it's directly Dreamworks fault here. I mean... nobody tells a legend like Woody Allen what movies he shoud make, right? I mean... right? Not even Spielberg. I think he makes the movies he wants. It just so happened that Woody was under a Dreamworks contract when he decided to make some funny movies.
Quote from: Alexandroand I insist, Shadows and Fog is underrated....
I always thought so. The other day I saw some parts of it again and yes, it's really underrated. It's so technically brilliant and a very funny yet insightfull look at human condition. I only think the ending is just to simple. Had he worked out a little bit on it (or used the original ending from "Death", his own play which was the basis for the movie) and we'd have one of Woody's greatest films.
Quote from: RoyalTenenbaumQuote from: SoNowThenSo basically we can all agree that dreamworks ruined Woody, yes?
In a sense, yes. Only because his Dreamworks movies were not that great (haven't seen Anything Else yet). But I don't think that it's directly Dreamworks fault here. I mean... nobody tells a legend like Woody Allen what movies he shoud make, right? I mean... right? Not even Spielberg. I think he makes the movies he wants. It just so happened that Woody was under a Dreamworks contract when he decided to make some funny movies.
But doesn't anybody else find it a little suspect that this guy who doesn't like being in the public eye is all of a sudden out doing promotions for his latest films, when he's with DREAMWORKS. But hey, you get in bed with certain people, and there always is a price to pay. For Woody, I guess it was some shit films...
# of Woody Allen films I have seen is very slim...actually it is 1.
But can Annie Hall ever be over-rated? It's so great.
Quote from: SHAFTR# of Woody Allen films I have seen is very slim...actually it is 1.
But can Annie Hall ever be over-rated? It's so great.
Fuck no..... it can't be overrated. I won't allow anyone to call it overrated :P
Quote from: SoNowThenBut hey, you get in bed with certain people, and there always is a price to pay.
So basically we can also all agree that Spielberg wasn't that great in the sack with his Woody.
Quote from: SHAFTRBut can Annie Hall ever be over-rated?
No. It's a great movie... And, hey, it even beat Star Wars at the Oscars.
But do yourself a favour and see more Woody Allen (Manhattan, Hannah and Her Sisters, and Bananas is a good start).
Quote from: CinephileQuote from: SoNowThenBut hey, you get in bed with certain people, and there always is a price to pay.
So basically we can also all agree that Spielberg wasn't that great in the sack with his Woody.
Touche.
Quote from: SoNowThenQuote from: RoyalTenenbaumQuote from: SoNowThenSo basically we can all agree that dreamworks ruined Woody, yes?
In a sense, yes. Only because his Dreamworks movies were not that great (haven't seen Anything Else yet). But I don't think that it's directly Dreamworks fault here. I mean... nobody tells a legend like Woody Allen what movies he shoud make, right? I mean... right? Not even Spielberg. I think he makes the movies he wants. It just so happened that Woody was under a Dreamworks contract when he decided to make some funny movies.
But doesn't anybody else find it a little suspect that this guy who doesn't like being in the public eye is all of a sudden out doing promotions for his latest films, when he's with DREAMWORKS. But hey, you get in bed with certain people, and there always is a price to pay. For Woody, I guess it was some shit films...
My brother thinks he's in some sort of financial trouble and that's why he's been making comedies and working for Dreamworks and promoting his films... If that's true, that's not a great position for an artist to be in...
His promotions have nothing to do with DreamWorks, per se. They obviously liked him or they wouldn't have made a 3 picture deal with him. They had him doing promotions -- and I think he was more than willing -- because HIS MOVIES DON"T MAKE MONEY!
Quote from: mutinycoHis promotions have nothing to do with DreamWorks, per se. They obviously liked him or they wouldn't have made a 3 picture deal with him. They had him doing promotions -- and I think he was more than willing -- because HIS MOVIES DON"T MAKE MONEY!
Yeah, and since Small Time Crooks made money (not much, but it made some), they're just trying to make the same with the other movies. But Allen movies don't make money a long time ago and he never used to promote them anyway. He always said that he didn't like to tell people what movies they were supposed to see.
Another thing we need to remember is that the general public lost their taste for Woody with the whole Soon Yi episode. Husbands and Wives came out in the middle of that so people expected it to make money, but it did the same amount as usual. He's just kinda...box office poison.
yeah, whenever i talk about how great he is, people always say "yeah, he was funny, but I just can't get past the whole molestation thing."
anger.
Quote from: ewardyeah, whenever i talk about how great he is, people always say "yeah, he was funny, but I just can't get past the whole molestation thing."
anger.
Well, that doesn't really happen when I talk about him. Everything they say is: "His films are so boring and stupid". Those fuckers...