28 Days Later

[Gold Trumpet]

He spent 30 years making nothing but documentary films, that one genre of films most interested in relating ideas.

12 years. His first was in 1969, with "From the City of Lodz" to 1981, with "Station". in 1973, though, he began in fiction by directing and writing a TV drama called Pedestrian Subway, so only 4 years of full documentary filmmaking.

Kieslowski was a filmmaking genius, but if he truly believed that films don't express ideas well, he was a genius who was very, very wrong about his own chosen art form.

He never said films couldn't convey ideas, but just very limited in doing so. He continually tried to push it as much as he could, but felt it was near hopeless because of how little movies could show in relation to what books could do. Movies, in his mind, could only give ample weight to so many things in the time period of two hours to fully express them as anything meaningful. Its different than just slamming as much dialogue talking about a ton of ideas. You aren't giving the required weight to it.

~rougerum

[polkablues]

I'm not sure, but I think this is the first time I've seen a throwdown of Krzystof Kieslowski references.

Ain't It Cool News can suck it!

[Jeremy Blackman]

I don't mind continuing conversation and discussion with JB, though.

I'm pretty much with Mesh on this one. You're just not making sense.

[mutinyco]

It's pretty idiotic to suggest that horror movies and ideas don't mix. What about war films, if we're talking about extremes? Or science fiction? There are different genres that best represent different sides of humanity. Look at a film like Jacob's Ladder -- part war movie, part horror film -- lots of ideas about life and death, etc. I actually find genre movies better for dealing with ideas, because they're already abstracted from reality. The Shining anybody?

I interviewed Naomie Harris from 28 Days Later. Go to:

http://movienavigator.org/naomie.htm

[Gold Trumpet]

Fine, my problem with 28 Days Later is that it is trying to act as two things at once - horror and film of ideas. And in the limited resources of movies to being a large enough canvas to convey many ideas and identities, it doesn't work. The horror element of the film is just too intrusive onto the art part that the potential ideas you could get from the film seem juvenile. Because of the intense focus on the horror, the element of focus for the ideas is not given enough life and focus to really expand beyond anything general.

Mesh's list of ideas from the film mean nothing because it is my opinion, the film never really attempts to dramaticize those ideas at all. The matter with the prologue is just left where it is standing with a very limited amount of information to convey much of anything. And all the general talk of existence and its importance during the rest of the movie never goes beyond that because nothing is able to be forwarded or dramatized to give them any weight. When you see talk between people that could matter, all it seems to lead to is just another attack by the zombies. Basically just the typical horror pay off like any other movie.

~rougerum

[mutinyco]

You really should just stop watching movies. What you're saying is laughable. This movie was filled with ideas. I saw it a month and a half before it opened and this is why I was so thrilled. The ideas coexist in harmony with the action.

But, as I recall, you wrote a post accusing Kubrick's post-Strangelove films as lacking. Those are what most people would consider his great works. There doesn't seem to be anything particularly pragmatic or functional about your criticisms.

There's a reason the film is doing well.

[modage]

have you seen American Nightmare? http://www.imdb.com/Title?0259182 its a pretty interesting but a little bloated documentary of the horror films of the seventies and has interviews with John Carpenter, Wes Craven, David Croneneberg, George Romero, etc.  and they talk about the ideas behind the movies and how what they were doing with these cheesy horror flicks was making grander statements about what was going on in the world.  personally i wouldve rather them talked about other things, but i think it would be interesting for what you guys are talking about.  (horror films conveying ideas.)

[Gold Trumpet]

Like I said, Mesh presented many ideas but I don't they are legimate at all. The ideas are just not allowed to evolve at all because stylistic filmmaking and horror cliche is way too present to do so. Everytime a topic of idea is brought up, that pay off of that is a zombie killing someone or an attack by zombies. Thats not fertile grounds on trying to make a movie of ideas. I just wish the film would have rid of most of the attempts and tried to be a good horror film first.

If what I am saying is laughable, then say why they are. I can't argue that kind of talk at all.

And the kubrick matter.......that is an argument too big to start here.

~rougerum

[mutinyco]

The ideas are quite legitimate. I've gone over them in both of my articles  which can be found throughout this thread. I don't feel the need to repeat them. In fact, since you're the one person making an argument to the contrary I feel the burden of proof lies on your shoulders. The ideas in 28 Days Later are totally relevant. In fact, I think it's the most relevant film so far this year.

[Gold Trumpet]

What the fuck have I been talking about the entire time? Who's the one writing massive paragraphs of explanation?

The ideas aren't legimitate because they are never gone into in any insight at all. They are talked about for moments of time during the whole movie, but their pay off is only another zombie attack. That isn't the working of legimate ideas. It is the working of a plot very juvenile in showing ideas because it only dedicates small moments to them. Its like reading a newspaper but just reading only the headlines and saying you got an informed reading from that. The articles in this movie are for the attacks and shifts of style in filmmaking. Sure, ideas here and there, but what investigation is there into anything?

~rougerum

[mutinyco]

Ideas don't come from dialogue. Ideas come from the action/drama of a film. I took away the film's ideas from the setup and various situations depicted throughout. Films that use dialogue to express their ideas are bullshit. Ideas should be left for the audience to realize. I did here.

[Gold Trumpet]

How?

The ideas in this movie seem superficial in the highest degree because the only drama it leads to is the lack of drama that runs through out the film in that it is a series of zombie attacks that are highly predictable and not scary or effective at all. The switch to the army headquarters extends little and only says a slim idea of how the army views its means to trying to give birth to a new fertilization of humans in England again. The pay off of that is again, more zombie attacks.

~rougerum

[ReelHotGames]

In case it hasn't been said already as of July 25 all the prints of 28 Days Later will include an alternate ending.

[mutinyco]

The alternate ending comes after the credits. Clever marketing.

[polkablues]

In case it hasn't been said already as of July 25 all the prints of 28 Days Later will include an alternate ending.

Those clever bastards are trying to get another eight bucks out of me...  it'll probably work, too.