Kill Bill: Volume Two

Started by MacGuffin, September 24, 2003, 01:38:09 AM

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SHAFTR

#510
April 22, 2004, 03:24:06 AM
So, after watching the film a 2nd time.  I have finally came to terms with how I felt about the film.  First off, I absolutely loved Volume 1.  By the end of Vol 2, I didn't have that same feeling I did after Vol 1.  This is why I gave it another go around.  My problem with Vol 2 is in regards to the 3rd act.  I thought the attempts at making Bill/Bride more emotional characters failed.  I look back at Leone's Man with No Name trilogy or Once Upon a Time in the West and those movies work.  With the genre, I am fine with having a 'cool' character with a huge emotional past not have that past talked about much.  It adds to the mystery of the character.  Vol 1 had this mystery.  The first 2 acts of Vol 2 did as well.  The final wrap off just seemed superficial, constrained and ultimately fake.  That being said, this film had great, great moments.  Pretty much everything until Act 3 (with the exception of the Wedding girls).  My last problem is with revealing the name, no need.  Either reveal it at the beginning or not at all; the reveal in this meant nothing.
Ultimately, I enjoyed the film overall.  The last act just left me very unsatisfied and I felt that it was the result of trying to make a vengeance film too emotional whereas the reason for seeking Vengeance sets the emotion at a desired level (no need for more).
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"

SoNowThen

#511
April 22, 2004, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: SHAFTRThat being said, this film had great, great moments.  Pretty much everything until Act 3 (with the exception of the Wedding girls).

Yeah, what's up with that? Has anyone heard any explanation as to why QT made that bit with them (and the actresses themselves) so useless???



Also, Weak2nd, now that you reminded me of it (a page back), that strip-club cocaine line IS the best line in the movie. Hahaha, I kept saying it all day yesterday...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

cine

#512
April 22, 2004, 09:21:08 AM
Quote from: SoNowThen
Quote from: SHAFTRThat being said, this film had great, great moments.  Pretty much everything until Act 3 (with the exception of the Wedding girls).

Yeah, what's up with that? Has anyone heard any explanation as to why QT made that bit with them (and the actresses themselves) so useless???
:shock:

QT would rip your hearts out and step on them if he knew you were trashing his mythological act 3. That was probably the best of the entire movie.

SoNowThen

#513
April 22, 2004, 09:33:54 AM
?

The wedding party girls were in the first act. Did you not find them totally annoying?
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

cine

#514
April 22, 2004, 09:36:37 AM
Oh I thought you had a problem with act 3 AND the wedding girls. Sorry.

I thought the wedding girls served their purpose as it had to be established that this was all The Bride had. Just a few girlfriends and her lover.

El Duderino

#515
April 22, 2004, 09:42:02 AM
i was sad that there was no open trunk scene in this movie.
Did I just get cock-blocked by Bob Saget?

©brad

#516
April 22, 2004, 12:49:07 PM
um, okay, so i'm still waiting on reviews from

picolas
jeremy
pubrick
godardian
macg
mogs

hurry up bitches!

Quote from: El Duderinoi was sad that there was no open trunk scene in this movie.

u need help.

soixante

#517
April 22, 2004, 12:52:45 PM
Just saw KB2 yesterday.  A rough assemblage of thoughts:

-- When the Bride shows up at Bill's lair, why not just shoot him?  Why hang out and have a conversation with such an untrustworthy viper?  The last time she let down his guard around him, at her wedding rehearsal, chaos ensued.  Didn't she learn from this experience?  I realize it is hard to kill Bill in front of her daughter, but then again, this is a survival situation.  This last scene creates a nice bookend with the first confrontation in KB1 -- having a little kid interpose in a fight to the death.

-- When Bill blasts away at the Bride, why does the daughter remain in her room?  Is she deaf?  If I were a little kid, and I heard a shotgun blast, I would wonder what the fuck is going on.

-- Trimming the fat -- was the strip scene necessary?  We know Budd is down and out and needs money judging merely from his trailer.  Also -- why did the Bride need to visit the old Mexican guy?  In this sort of film, which is filled with a great deal of implausibility already, can't you just show the Bride showing up at Bill's place without going into the logistics?  We know the Bride's a resourceful gal, we can believe that she'll figure out where Bill is.

-- The hotel room shootout -- this is one of those hotels that only exist in the movies, in which people in adjacent rooms are deaf, and in which security doesn't investigate loud noises (I work in a hotel, so I can assure you that one shotgun blast would arouse the curiosity of security personnel, not to mention a 911 call and the quick arrival of a dozen police patrol cars).

OK, so much for my qualms.  Despite the aforementioned lapses in logic, I still loved KB2.  There is enough excellence in this film to make up for a number of flaws.  After all, True Romance had plot holes, but it was still great.

I am still sorting through how I feel about the overall epic.  It is broken into two volumes, and both volumes feature narratives that are told out of sequence.

But for now, both volumes get a 3 1/2 rating (out of 4).
Music is your best entertainment value.

SoNowThen

#518
April 22, 2004, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: soixante-- Trimming the fat -- was the strip scene necessary?  We know Budd is down and out and needs money judging merely from his trailer.  Also -- why did the Bride need to visit the old Mexican guy?  In this sort of film, which is filled with a great deal of implausibility already, can't you just show the Bride showing up at Bill's place without going into the logistics?  We know the Bride's a resourceful gal, we can believe that she'll figure out where Bill is.

The Mexican Pimp, I agree on. A shite scene, not needed, probably just in there to pad time, DEFINITELY would have been cut out if this was presented as one film originally. Or at least should have been (cut out, that is).

The strip club scene, however, is imo QT's best work to date. Besides the wonderful off-color humor --  "are you working Thursday? No!" -- in a volume chock full of back-story, I thought this one was the most subtle and elegant. Well, maybe subtle's the wrong word, but it just played so perfectly. Lots of other scenes were like "oh, now I have a kid" or "well, I'll tell you why I did that", too much explanation for my taste. But when that over-the-hill stripper came out and said "Bud, the toilet overflowed again. There's shitty water on the floor", fuck, it was perfect. And Madsen's response was A1 timing. "Okay............. Rocket...". Even Chris Walken would be proud of that pause for effect.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

soixante

#519
April 22, 2004, 01:14:23 PM
I enjoyed the strip club scene, as a scene.  I'm just questioning how necessary it was to the story.  Judging from Budd's living arrangements, I realize he is down and out, and I don't really need to see his shitty job.  As someone once said, you must kill your darlings.

This brings up an interesting issue -- QT has so much clout, even Harvey Scissorhands can't tell him to cut the fat out.  Also, in KB1 -- the scene in which Lucy Liu takes over the Tokyo underground -- that scene could be trimmed.  You could actually cut to her giving that speech that starts with "as your leader..." and then she holds up the severed head.
Music is your best entertainment value.

SoNowThen

#520
April 22, 2004, 01:23:59 PM
I will continue to fight for the strip club scene:

reason being that we saw the little trailer he lived in, listening to his Johnny Cash records & drinking, in the middle of the desert. BUT, if that's all I saw, I would have assumed that he's just retired from killing, and now lives a quiet, happy, peaceful life. I mean, a nice, hot location, remote and serene -- that's not too bad a living condition in the grand scheme of things. But then to learn that he has to support himself by working this shitty job where he is looked down upon by a bunch of assholes who he could kill with his bare hands in the span of a minute... well, that shows me infinitely more depth on this character. And like I said before, WITHOUT actually having the character say "I'm down and out, and I hate my job" and so on and so on.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

cine

#521
April 22, 2004, 01:41:21 PM
To continue on with SoNowThen...

We are supposed to SYMPATHIZE with him. Elle Driver kills him, not The Bride. This is not an accident. It was QT's intentions for us to sympathize with Budd otherwise without that scene at the strip club, having a scene where Elle kills Budd with a black mamba would scene rather odd. To me, at least. That's my take on it...

edison

#522
April 22, 2004, 01:45:57 PM
Good point sonowthen, thats exactly what i was thinking, i like how he's getting chewed out at work when his boss has no idea that this is a former assassin, pretty funny actually, and i love that marking out the calender bit.

soixante

#523
April 22, 2004, 03:10:24 PM
You guys have made some good points.  Now that I think about it, if you see Budd lose his job, then we understand his need to make money.  We also see Budd interacting with "regular" folks -- which echoes with Bill's speech about Superman and Clark Kent.  So this is Budd as Clark Kent, a loser in th eyes of civilians, but really a Superman hiding his powers.  OK, now I get it.
Music is your best entertainment value.

soixante

#524
April 22, 2004, 03:15:13 PM
Quote from: 50 CentiphileTo continue on with SoNowThen...

We are supposed to SYMPATHIZE with him. Elle Driver kills him, not The Bride. This is not an accident. It was QT's intentions for us to sympathize with Budd otherwise without that scene at the strip club, having a scene where Elle kills Budd with a black mamba would scene rather odd. To me, at least. That's my take on it...

I think you've hit the nail on the head.  We need to establish Budd's life for a while before we bring in Elle Driver.  

Also, I do love the asshole boss scene -- he reminds me of a lot of asshole bosses I've had.  It's also a good "little do they realize who they are fucking with" scene.
Music is your best entertainment value.
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