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BRIAN DE PALMA

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godardian

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on: May 13, 2003, 02:03:06 PM
SoNowThen and I were having an in-depth discussion of Blow Out on some other thread... and now I forget where... and I didn't see anything devoted to De Palma here... so I decided to start one up.

Anyone else think Blow Out is a great film?
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

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Gold Trumpet

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Reply #1 on: May 13, 2003, 02:13:44 PM
I think Blow Out is a great film and one of De Palma's best works. What makes it even more fascinating is that it is a remake of sorts of Antonioni's Blow Up and when looking at the difference between both films, you can clearly see the difference between art cinema and the more commercial cinema. But instead of comercial cinema being portrayed as talentless, this is also a great film that stands next to Blow Up like a brother. I think there are some great works being made in comercial films by guys like Speilberg and De Palma that will hold up in a respectable way.

My favorite though is the highly underrated Femme Fatale, which incorporates De Palma's masterful directing into a story best suited for it.

~rougerum

godardian

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Reply #2 on: May 13, 2003, 02:17:50 PM
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
I think Blow Out is a great film and one of De Palma's best works. What makes it even more fascinating is that it is a remake of sorts of Antonioni's Blow Up and when looking at the difference between both films, you can clearly see the difference between art cinema and the more commercial cinema. But instead of comercial cinema being portrayed as talentless, this is also a great film that stands next to Blow Up like a brother. I think there are some great works being made in comercial films by guys like Speilberg and De Palma that will hold up in a respectable way.

My favorite though is the highly underrated Femme Fatale, which incorporates De Palma's masterful directing into a story best suited for it.

~rougerum


(Applause.)
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

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Reply #3 on: May 13, 2003, 02:18:43 PM
Scarface -- by a hair -- over Casualties Of War and The Untouchables.

But I don't think I saw Carlito's Way on that list. It's not my fav, but it deserves to be there.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

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Reply #4 on: May 13, 2003, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: SoNowThen
Scarface -- by a hair -- over Casualties Of War and The Untouchables.

But I don't think I saw Carlito's Way on that list. It's not my fav, but it deserves to be there.


I neglected to add it because, well, I forgot about it 'til the end. I will add it, but it won't be in chronological order, as I'd hoped...
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

godardian

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Reply #5 on: May 13, 2003, 03:32:33 PM
As it turns out, I can't seem to edit the poll... this technical stuff don't make none sense to me.

So... Carlito's Way. Haven't seen it. Charles Taylor said it "came very close to being this generation's Casablanca." I do want to see it, and I will, eventually.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

Keener

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Reply #6 on: May 13, 2003, 04:21:43 PM
Carlito's Way is good. Unfortuntely, I've seen few of his work because video stores in Alabama (hell) don't carry them. I've seen Carrie, Scarface,  Wise Guys, Carlito's Way, Mission:Impossible and Snake Eyes and loved the first four.

I'm dying to see Blow Out since it's Tarantino's favorite movie...ever.
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MacGuffin

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Reply #7 on: May 13, 2003, 04:39:07 PM
Quote from: godardian
As it turns out, I can't seem to edit the poll... this technical stuff don't make none sense to me.


I added it for you and even put it in order so your obsessive compulsive disorder can relax.
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joeybdot

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Reply #8 on: May 13, 2003, 04:44:52 PM
Scarface. For the last sequence when he gos "Ok You WAnna Play Stupid Cock a roaches on to the end!  "Say ello to my lil friend" "Stupid fuckn maracon

godardian

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Reply #9 on: May 13, 2003, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin


I added it for you and even put it in order so your obsessive compulsive disorder can relax.


If only that was all it took.  :(
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

godardian

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Reply #10 on: May 13, 2003, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: Keener


I'm dying to see Blow Out since it's Tarantino's favorite movie...ever.


That makes a lot of sense and raises my middling estimation of Tarantino up a notch.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

cowboykurtis

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Reply #11 on: May 13, 2003, 05:06:59 PM
i bought the sister's criterion disc a while back -- the thought of a saimese twin sisters murder mystery was intruiging -- i can safely say it was on of the worst film i've ever seen, absolutely horrible. acting,writing,directing, all around production value was worse than many student films i've seen -- just a horrible film --its  just under jeeper's creeper's for my list of hatred. why the hell did criterion release this sack of shit?
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godardian

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Reply #12 on: May 13, 2003, 05:09:56 PM
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
What makes it even more fascinating is that it is a remake of sorts of Antonioni's Blow Up and when looking at the difference between both films, you can clearly see the difference between art cinema and the more commercial cinema. But instead of comercial cinema being portrayed as talentless, this is also a great film that stands next to Blow Up like a brother. I think there are some great works being made in comercial films by guys like Speilberg and De Palma that will hold up in a respectable way.

My favorite though is the highly underrated Femme Fatale, which incorporates De Palma's masterful directing into a story best suited for it.

~rougerum


I also see some striking similarities that would render Blow Out a cinematic sibling of The Conversation; in fact, De Palma's film may be the last of the great American political-paranoia films, which maybe began with Pakula's films in the earlier seventies (I'm not an expert on this, I'm just going from what I've seen).

Oddly, Spielberg (whom I cannot stand) is friends with De Palma, or at least he was during the writing of Julie Salmon's The Devil's Candy, in which their friendship- and their radically different perspectives on the motivations and art of making cinema- are gone into in some pretty interesting, albeit brief, detail.

Lastly, Gold Trumpet, I think your Femme Fatale vote got made into a Mission to Mars vote when Maguffin kindly added Carlito's Way to the poll... I hate to pester Maguffin, but... could you switch his vote back?
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

godardian

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Reply #13 on: May 13, 2003, 05:14:06 PM
Quote from: cowboykurtis
i bought the sister's criterion disc a while back -- the thought of a saimese twin sisters murder mystery was intruiging -- i can safely say it was on of the worst film i've ever seen, absolutely horrible. acting,writing,directing, all around production value was worse than many student films i've seen -- just a horrible film --its  just under jeeper's creeper's for my list of hatred. why the hell did criterion release this sack of shit?


I found it odd and funny and creepy-psychosexual. It's overheated and cheesy-lurid like all De Palma's films, but that's his style. I loved the flashback sequence. Wonderful and strange.

Criterion releases films that are considered by those in the film-scholar community to be prescient or of some value to film history. That hardly means you're going to get multiplex-digital-Dolby quality every time. Their mission is highest possible quality presentation of films interesting to those looking to broaden their cinematic frame of reference. I think Criterion DVDs are more informative and tuned into film history and cinephilia than most film schools.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

cowboykurtis

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Reply #14 on: May 13, 2003, 05:23:44 PM
Quote from: godardian
[Criterion releases films that are considered by those in the film-scholar community to be prescient or of some value to film history. .


thank you for the "criterion mission statement" but it was a rhetorical question... i thought the movie was garbage, and in no way important to the history of film. it doesn't measure up to the integrity of many other criterion releases -- maybe they wanted to congradulate de palma to be the one of the first to deliberately and unashaedly rip off hitchcock...
...your excuses are your own...

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