Author Topic: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!  (Read 5221 times)

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eward

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2017, 10:02:42 AM »
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I loved it. Flew right by. Hes really moving the camera around again! Seeing it a second time tonight so more interesting, detailed remarks to come, but after having sat with it for 16ish hours, it definitely ranks pretty high overall for me. The ending is bizarre and coyly kinky. And the score! Wall-to-wall and utterly hypnotic.  I think this may help alleviate any remaining sting for those who felt burned by Inherent Vice.
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

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jenkins

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 09:33:21 PM »
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[Nodding my head]

https://twitter.com/ErikDavis/status/934978136369958912

building from this, and outside thread conversations, i wish to further the explore the concept of love as portrayed by Phantom Thread. it isn't that the title can't refer to anything else (i know how you PT people get), but rather that a full meaning is obtained from the idea of the title as a reference to love, based on the movie, Vicky Krieps's opening statements, and here are PT and wilberfan again --

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When love comes your way...it gets pretty complicated and peculiar...as love does.
   
--PTA on "Phantom Thread"   [from the post-screening discussion, Nov 24, 2017, Beverly Hills, CA]

i'm about to get sooo spoilery

second warning about how spoilery i'm about to become

DDL tells Lesley Manville he's made a terrible life mistake and things are fucked, he needs help. that's a terrific scene because it solidifies the female/female relationship, but let us also consider what type of statement DDL makes. that is a very non-love statement. he's wanting to escape his marriage. and although i can't currently recall the exact order of the subsequent scenes, i know this is close to the end. the end i shall not mention, since i don't have to, and out of respect for people who haven't seen it. but those who have seen it you know what i mean.

how would it be logical for him to say that, and for the movie to end as it does? you see, it's not logical. it's love, which doesn't mean one thing. as i've mentioned before, a phantom thread is an imaginary one. and here the audience sees: we imagine for ourselves what we need to stitch our lives together when we do and how we do.

and that is true and tricky and difficult, and that is what we do. PT could've portrayed this a different way, sure, but i think the movie demonstrates this in a full way.

wilder

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 09:41:12 PM »
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I like your interpretation and I'm bound to agree with it.

I also think it's tricky in that specific turn and wonder how much it's love and how much it's Alma bending to his gravitational force. If love is self-sacrifice Alma is certainly in it, but is Reynolds in the same exact boat? Hmmm. I don't know. He's giving up his solitude. Maybe love isn't necessarily a balance, an equal two-way street, which is a bold thing for the film to say.

I think it's a bit more mysterious than you're willing to let on.

Still can't stop thinking about it.

jenkins

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 09:46:14 PM »
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i also believe that scene between DDL and Lesley solidifies DDL's interior weakness and dependency upon others. i don't believe he's a man who could win his fights alone (there isn't evidence of that). i know you know that by the end he willingly self-sacrifices in order to preserve an environment of love.

wilder

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2017, 09:52:24 PM »
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i don't believe he's a man who could win his fights alone (there isn't evidence of that).

This is a great point. Launching pad for a different conversation I want to think more about.

i know you know that by the end he willingly self-sacrifices in order to preserve an environment of love.

I know, but I'm thinking there's also an argument that Woodcock needs an audience, a target for his arrows, in order to feel satisfied by firing them. Like the old saying goes, if a tree falls in the forest with no one around to hear it, did it make a sound? Alma proves herself loyal in her submission, a willing punching bag for his outbursts. He could be going along with her plan in twisted desperation to preserve that.

Woodcock also loves to be infantilized, with Cyril constantly looking over his shoulder and replacing his (dead) mother's role. Alma's enthusiasm to take part in that odd dynamic certainly plays into it. Is the want to be mothered the same as the want to be loved?

jenkins

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2017, 10:06:31 PM »
+1
just warning you guys again about major spoilers, in fact i'll make the text white

following upon your last statement, and building from the conversation, how much of their love is for each other, and how much of their love is for themselves? does she not enjoy how great she looks in his dresses, which everyone would like to wear? she gets jealous asap. she fears losing him, but is it because she fears losing what he represents? i was hard on her first because he's easy to be hard on. in an overall sense i think most loves are impure. he seems to love himself way more than he loves her or anyone. the harder part with him is identifying how he lovers her for her.

wilder

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2017, 10:12:15 PM »
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^ Mic drop

wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2017, 11:20:54 PM »
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Just so I understand clearly, I thought this thread was for spoilers and the other thread was not.  Does it not work that way?
"There's shadows in life, baby."

wilder

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2017, 11:22:28 PM »
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It is, some people who haven't seen it are popping in and stealing glances because curiosity's a bitch. We're just being extra cautious.

wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2017, 02:31:26 AM »
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A "review" (of sorts) from @Lons (via Twitter)   Perhaps Spoileresque
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You heard it here first, folks. Paul Thomas Anderson is a good filmmaker.

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To unpack a bit more: PHANTOM THREAD is strange and romantic and claustrophobic and very funny and creepily unsettling and provocative and thoughtful and kind of silly and I definitely want to see it again.

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Like all of PTA's best, it's the kind of movie where you check in with yourself every half hour, and think you know what he's pulling off and what's coming next, and you're wrong every time.

https://twitter.com/Lons/status/935382622418509824

He's articulated my reaction rather nicely, actually.
"There's shadows in life, baby."

eward

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2017, 12:57:38 PM »
+1
https://www.wmagazine.com/story/exclusive-daniel-day-lewis-giving-up-acting-phantom-thread?mbid=social_facebook

Daniel Day Lewis on Phantom Thread and his "retirement". Surprising tidbit: He has not seen the film and apparently has no plans to.
"Do you laugh at jealousy?"

"No, I don't even laugh at seasickness! I happen to regard jealousy as the seasickness of passion."

Rooty Poots

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2017, 01:04:41 PM »
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https://www.wmagazine.com/story/exclusive-daniel-day-lewis-giving-up-acting-phantom-thread?mbid=social_facebook

Daniel Day Lewis on Phantom Thread and his "retirement". Surprising tidbit: He has not seen the film and apparently has no plans to.

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I do know that Paul and I laughed a lot before we made the movie. And then we stopped laughing because we were both overwhelmed by a sense of sadness. That took us by surprise: We didnt realize what we had given birth to. It was hard to live with. And still is.

and

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Paul and I spoke a lot about cursesthe idea of a curse on a family, what that might be like. A kind of malady. And its not that I felt there was a curse attached to this film, other than the responsibility of a creative life, which is both a curse and a blessing. You can never separate them until the day you die. Its the thing that feeds you and eats away at you; gives you life and is killing you at the same time.

Jesus Christ.

jenkins

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2017, 01:09:44 PM »
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Quote
Although there have been rumors that Day-Lewis is going to become a fashion designer, he laughed when I suggested that career. Who knows? he said mischievously. I wont know which way to go for a while. But Im not going to stay idle. I dont fear the stony silence. He has always had a variety of passions: He once wrote a comedy script with Rebecca; he paints well; he makes furniture; and he is a fan of MotoGP, the competitive motorcycle tournament. But he also has a deep love of film, and it is hard to imagine that he will not continue to contribute to movies in some way.

Drenk

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2017, 01:12:14 PM »
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"Not wanting to see the film is connected to the decision Ive made to stop working as an actor. But its not why the sadness came to stay. That happened during the telling of the story, and I dont really know why.

I should not hang in the Spoilers thread but...whaaaat? I don't know if he hates the movie or if it overwhelmed him. It was weird at the last Q&A the way he kept repeating how awful shooting the movie was.
I'm so many people.

wilberfan

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Re: Phantom Thread - SPOILERS!
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2017, 01:34:51 PM »
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I know you guys get this, but this is something I constantly have to explain to the great-unwashed about PTA's films:

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Phantom Thread is one of the most beguiling portrayals of fashion in the history of film, but in the end, its not a film about fashion.

"But Boogie Nights is not about porn.  There Will Be Blood is not about the oil industry.  The Master is not about Scientology..."


Back to Phantom Thread for a second.  SPOILER

I was just meditating when the following thought wafted by:   The driving scenes in Phantom Thread had a very 40's/50's look about them.  There's one especially driving down a dark lane with the shrubbery on either side illuminated rather awkwardly (so we can see the car).  Very much reminded me of all of those rear-screen projections from the era of Rebecca, etc.    I can only hope it was a deliberate attempt to invoke that period of film making.   

And have we discussed Reynolds' aggressive style of driving yet?   I'm taking it as a 'release' for him.  A way to (unconsciously?) blow off the contained, controlled environment of the House of Woodcock.  Other thoughts?
"There's shadows in life, baby."

 

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