Homeland

Started by Kal, October 01, 2012, 11:21:49 AM

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Brando

Quote from: ©brad on November 27, 2012, 08:27:04 AM
Can we talk about last sunday's episode because I'm kind of confused:

SPOILERS


- I'm not fully understanding this reveal of Quinn and who he's talking to on the bus. So Quinn is a black-ops guy who's objective from the get-go was to murder Brody if they don't capture Nazir? What is the main reason the CIA would want Brody dead, in case Brody ever came clean to everything?
- Do we believe Brody? We're meant to of course, but the praying part with Nazir that he carefully didn't mention could be something, or just a red herring.
- While I'm on Brody, I'm really starting to feel for the guy more than I ever had. The dude has nothing now and continues to get used and screwed over by everyone he knows. Many are predicting he won't survive this season but part of me hopes he does.
- Is there not another vehicle more conspicuous than nondescript black vans? Carrie, Virgil and what'shisass are always in these vans that are so obviously CIA and the terrorists and Brody residence never seems to notice.
- I cheered when Mike put the smack down on Dana in her room. So over her.
- And sweet Christ, the Chris character is USELESS. The writers aren't even trying. His lines are always so goddamn cheesy, and he's completely oblivious to everything that's happening in his family. He's just happy to find Miami up by 5 points and flat screens in every room.

SPOILERS

The guy he met on the bus was the leader of quinn's Black opp team. I think Quinn's role was to kill Brody once they captured, killed or stopped Nazir.  They want him dead cause he is both a terrorist and a liability. Once he helps them capture Nazir they don't want him around.  He admittedly came close to blowing up the vice president.

I too have started to feel for Brody.  He's getting shit on from three sides: his family, cia, nazir.  Its better for the show to have him as the sympathetic character than Carry who was in season 1. I do believe Brody but I wouldn't be surprised to find out if he's been playing both sides. I wouldn't think leaving out the praying is anything but then you add that to that look he gave when he and Carry hugged after the assault at the tailors makes a little hesitant to trust him completely.

I really liked Dana but the past few episodes she's been annoying. 
If you think this is going to have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

Stefen

Quote from: ©brad on November 27, 2012, 08:27:04 AM
Spoilers.

- I cheered when Mike put the smack down on Dana in her room. So over her.

Spoils...

haha, Mike cracks me up. He's like a broke Channing Tatum. He's really dumb, but in an endearing way. The emergency brake is on and he doesn't understand why the car won't go and he's like, "I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to get to the bottom of this." He's that type of guy.

I also don't know what Jessica see's in him other than him being the worlds greatest carpooler. It made me laugh when Jessica and the kids are in the CIA safehouse and the CIA lady is like, "you're not in danger." but Mike still stands guard by the window because the CIA might be wrong. Then he see's Jessica's boobs and falls asleep. Jessica had to get up to check on her kids because boobs made Mike leave his post. It's like when you're trying to break into a junkyard and you throw the guard dogs a steak to make them forget what they were doing. That's how Mike is with boobs. It happens.

Quote from: ©brad on November 27, 2012, 08:27:04 AM
Spoilers.

- And sweet Christ, the Chris character is USELESS. The writers aren't even trying. His lines are always so goddamn cheesy, and he's completely oblivious to everything that's happening in his family. He's just happy to find Miami up by 5 points and flat screens in every room.

Chris is one of those gentle kids who, if his parents are fighting and his pops splits to the bar to blow off some steam, he goes up to his mom trying desperately to hold back tears and asks, "Where's dad? Are you going to get a divorce? Did I do something wrong?"

Grow a pair, kid. He's going to be the type of man who holds the door open for a random woman and her boyfriend and ends up getting stuck holding it open for everyone exiting the movie theater.
Falling in love is the greatest joy in life. Followed closely by sneaking into a gated community late at night and firing a gun into the air.

Jeremy Blackman

Dana made a brief comeback for me (I think it was dumping Xander that did it), but now I'm sort of done with her too. Mike's smack down was possibly the most exciting moment of the episode. But I guess I'd be open to another Dana comeback. As a first step, she needs to wrest control of her eyebrows.

Kal

Two episodes left. I think Brody will be alive. Nazir not so sure. Quinn probably not.

That thing with the VP? Seemed way too easy.

Stefen

Spoils.

Yeah, what the fuck was up with that? Some dude hacked a pacemaker using only the serial number? This show is getting kind of silly now. The Abu Nazir being in the USA plotline is awful. The far more interesting plotline is the Quinn, Estes and the Black Ops stuff. That should have been the focus, not Abu Nazir in the states.
Falling in love is the greatest joy in life. Followed closely by sneaking into a gated community late at night and firing a gun into the air.

©brad

SPOILS

Here's an interview with the creator and the writer of this episode in which they try and defend Nazir in the states. They also defend accusations that the show is turning into 24. Their arguments are not very convincing.

AVClub's recap makes a great case that this show is much better at paying off character arcs than it is with plot. If you think about the plotting in last night's episode that led to the VP's death - Nazir single-handedly t-boning Carrie with an SUV, dragging her out of the car, keeping her captive in a mill, using her as bait to get Brody to find a serial number on a wifi-enabled pacemaker so Nazir can hack into it and kill the VP, well, just typing all that makes me feel dumber. But the character moments all this nonsense led to - Brody coming face to face with Walden, pushing that phone away, all leading to maybe my favorite line of the season: "... I'm killing you." Well, all that stuff was pure awesome. So I don't know. This show continues to confuse me. We just have to accept all the ridiculousness and go along for the ride.

There is one problem the show has that has only been amplified with this season. A friend posted this on another board and I couldn't agree more:

"The show doesn't present any alternative view of Islam. It wouldn't be that hard to have a Muslim CIA agent or another character representing a different perspective. I expect Nazir to have an extremist perspective, but in the universe of season 2 Homeland, all Muslims are extremist terrorists who want to exterminate America. Even superficially moderate Muslims, like Roya, turn out to be secretly working for Nazir. It's so boring.

I think season 1 was different, even though there was no ongoing Muslim character who wasn't a terrorist. It seemed to have a more nuanced view of Islam, and what the CIA was doing. Even Abu Nazir wasn't a straightforward bad guy, but was complicated by shades of grey. This season, he comes off as a moustache-twirling villain, and the war on terror has been reduced to a simple war of East vs West."



Jeremy Blackman

SPOILERS

I agree about Nazir having lost some value. He was originally a complex figure, but now he's straightforwardly evil. His speech to Carrie this episode, where he talked about his people's determination and grit and whatnot, was brilliant and sort of perfect until the very last line — "we will exterminate you" — which ruined it all. What a disappointment.

The upcoming Saul plotline sort of bothers me. I feel like putting a protagonist's job at risk is a weak card to play, and this show has already done five seasons worth of that with Carrie. It also feels like they're putting one of our favorite characters in peril to arbitrarily ratchet things up.

Dana's eyebrows are still going haywire. Fix them, and only then can you fix the rest of the show.

All of that said, I'm still really enjoying Homeland, and the plot turns excite me more than they bother me. Maybe it's generally working for me because I had low expectations for Season 2, because of my innumerable problems with Season 1.

Brando

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on December 04, 2012, 01:50:23 PM


All of that said, I'm still really enjoying Homeland, and the plot turns excite me more than they bother me. Maybe it's generally working for me because I had low expectations for Season 2, because of my innumerable problems with Season 1.

SPOILERS

I've thought about that myself and if that is why I'm enjoying this season.


I'm actually surprised by all the hate this season is getting. Last season I couldn't understand or see the love the show was getting.  A quarter or a third of a way through this season I finally could see it.  Although maybe not as good as they were saying, I could understand how some people could really love the show.  Now that I'm finally on the side of the show, they flipped on me. I just don't understand it when I see quotes like "Homeland: From Almost "The Wire" to Almost "Starsky & Hutch" in Ten Short Weeks." 


All the plot holes from the last episode, I think have been consistent with the entire series. They never explained how Tom Walker knew he was being set up so instead sent another homeless guy with a bomb.  The Tom Walker character never made any sense to me at all. Why would you need a military trained sniper to miss a shot? Why risk having him around at all when you have Brody coming back as a hero? 

I think the biggest plot hole in the last episode had to do with Saul's character. Saul is the smartest character on the show.  He figured who Quinn is and what he's really doing there but didn't realize why Carrie was kidnapped? Moments after you spoil Nazir's terrorist plot, Carrie is kidnapped. It's obvious Nazir kidnapped Carrie as a bargaining chip to get out of the country or to get back at Brody or threaten Carrie in order to get Brody to do something.  Saul is smart enough to figure that out and as soon as they realized she was kidnapped, he should have had Brody brought in and kept under observation. Last thing Saul would have done is would have allowed Brody a meeting with the man he's tried to kill before. 
If you think this is going to have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

modage

This week's episode was definitely the series worst. Bad writing, bad acting, bad.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Jeremy Blackman

I agree, Brando. Season 2 is so much stronger, even counting this most recent episode. I was actually sold from Episode 1 of this season and have had very few reservations throughout. By contrast, Season 1 was fairly ridiculous. It has at least double the plot holes, and it was sort of bad at character development, but I think people have just forgotten. And the end of the season was laughable. (Like I was saying here.)

I think we might find out that Saul has a few theories that he's currently keeping close to the vest, for obvious trust reasons. (For example, it's notable that he wasn't completely freaking out about Carrie being missing.)

Someone needs to acknowledge my eyebrows theory, or I'm going to keep bringing it up.

samsong

for as exceptional as the beginning of this season was, it's really lost momentum to the point where i almost don't want to watch anymore.  brody's entire family is beyond obnoxious at this point and the only thing i want to see happen to them is painful, but quick death so i don't have to spend anymore time with them, but not before seeing the wife naked like 17 more times.  and that they're such assholes, even the retarded son, makes brody's plight even dumber.

showing carrie running off on a cell phone camera like that?  "swear on my son's soul!!!!"  come the fuck on.  unless some crazy shit (i have a feeling f murray abraham is going to pull something ridiculous) goes down in these next couple episodes i'm pretty much done.   

Jeremy Blackman

Yikes. That Dana scene did more damage to her character than anything ever. How ridiculous was that? Out of character ridiculous, even for her. Since when is Dana supposed to be a horrible and absurd human being who doesn't understand anything? This whole "hating dad" plot follows from nothing. (She wants to go to school, but she can't because of national security or something, and it's so unfair. First world problems much? What a brat. A whiny, logic-free, ex-stoner, manslaughtering brat with ungovernable eyebrows.) Remember how Dana and her dad have bonded through most of the series, in the Qu'ran burying scene for example? And that time she convinced him to come home instead of dying? Since when does she prefer Mike? That came from absolutely nowhere. Dana's last encounter with Mike was awkward at best. None of that makes any sense. And the spilt milk was included just to insult the audience.

©brad

- Thank you. Dana's character is a schizophrenic failure on the writer's part. What is so hard to understand - your dad is working with the CIA and you might be in danger so you have to chill in this awesome pad (flatscreens!) and skip school. Boo hoo. Oh and by the way, given you killed someone a few weeks ago and you're not in jail, maybe don't act like some entitled jerk complaining about how everything sucks all the time. Jesus. 
- I'm surprised my eyes didn't get stuck from rolling so much. Carrie only getting one guy with her in the Mill as the other agents inexplicably somewhere else was a horror movie trope at its worst. And why wasn't Carrie armed? And shouldn't the CIA have dogs? why would Nazir have stayed in that Mill to begin with? And how did the field agent experts not find Nazir behind that wall but Carrie did? 
- In fact, everything to do with The Mill And Nazir was the nadir of the show so far. I'm done complaining about plausibility at this point, but everything any character did in that Mill made absolutely no sense. I'm fine with this show being ridiculous (Breaking Bad is equally so at times) but now it's just being dumb, and there are so many glaring plot holes that it's hard to see how they can redeem themselves in next week's finale (I'll happily eat my words if I'm proven wrong).





Stefen

Spoils.

Has there ever been a show that went from so good to so bad in the span of only 2 and 1/2 episodes? I'm actually glad Abu Nazir is dead because, while at first it was the best part of the show, it suddenly became the worst and now they can move onto other things.

Also Dana's eyebrows have now taken on a life of their own. JB called it.
Falling in love is the greatest joy in life. Followed closely by sneaking into a gated community late at night and firing a gun into the air.

Jeremy Blackman

^ Thank you. The eyebrows were actually operating at their peak a few weeks ago, when Dana was reeling from the manslaughter (the eyebrows primarily express inner turmoil), but they are undoubtedly still going, even though I didn't outright notice them this episode. I'm probably desensitized.

Quote from: ©brad on December 10, 2012, 10:00:06 AMAnd shouldn't the CIA have dogs?

Wow, didn't think of that. This could be the biggest plot hole of the series so far. Of course they would have used dogs, who would have easily found Nazir.