T3

[markums2k]

C'mon, EVERY movie is a B movie to Ghostboy...

They are?

Okay, when you read my comment, imagine that the word "dramatization" in little white letters at the bottom.

I just came from the 28 Days Later thread and you're on a B movie kick.  It was funny to see the same discussion taking place in 'T3', of all places.

[modage]

i am puking as i am typing this...

The LA Times interviewed Nick Stahl:

If "T3" is a success, would you be up for another one?

I'm actually signed on for two more. But I can't even think a week into the future, much less like that.

The ending of the new film certainly feels like it's setting up another movie. Do you have any hints on what happens next?

I wouldn't find out until a couple months before they filmed it. I barely knew where the movie I was in was going, to a degree, until the last second. It was such a secretive thing. I read a script, but it was under lock and key. Once I was going to screen-test for the role, I came in and I was kind of sealed into a room with this guy standing there, the script keeper guy, who waited until I finished the script. It was intense.

[TheVoiceOfNick]

I thought it was a great movie for what it was... I know that now-a-days no sequel can live up to its original that was made years ago (i.e. Star Wars... and I fear for the Superman and Indiana Jones franchises!!!!), but I thought it wasn't too bad. I think this movie and the Matrix Reloaded had about the same amount of storyline, but I thought T3 came through with the goods more so. I definetly think that T3 will win tons of awards for sound design and sound editing, as well as visual effects. These were some of the best visual effects I think i've ever seen in a movie. It actually DIDN'T look like a video game! Wow! That alone is worth the admission price.


Of course there will be sequels... and now that Cameron isn't holding up the franchise (since we know it takes him 5 years to make a movie), expect to see another sequel in two years. I GUARANTEE that T4 will be competing with Episode 3 in 2005!


For those that didn't think T3 could compare to T1 or T2, not every movie in a series can be as great as the first ones were. For those that think the movie was complete garbage, not every movie can be the Godfather... it was what it was... a cheesy action movie. I knew it would be, and I wasn't disappointed.


Nick

[ProgWRX]

my thoughts exactly.

[mindfuck]

For those that didn't think T3 could compare to T1 or T2, not every movie in a series can be as great as the first ones were. For those that think the movie was complete garbage, not every movie can be the Godfather... it was what it was... a cheesy action movie. I knew it would be, and I wasn't disappointed.

But why would you accept a cheesy action movie as a proper follow-up to T2? I just watched T2 again this weekend and it pisses me off that they decided to tarnish the series with "a cheesy action movie".

[Cecil]

yeah, exactly. t3 just demolished everything its predecessors have accomplished.

"not every movie can be the godfather." thats like saying its not worth trying to make something good or that we should like any movie no matter how bad it is because its impossible for every movie to be good.

i did find the "you remind me of my mother" line very funny. freud.

[TheVoiceOfNick]

But why would you accept a cheesy action movie as a proper follow-up to T2? I just watched T2 again this weekend and it pisses me off that they decided to tarnish the series with "a cheesy action movie".

Because it is what it is.


The series is now in a transition stage. Maybe the next movies in the series will have more plot, but what happened in this movie had to happen eventually... they could have put it all in a 10 minute time span, but decided to make a 2 hour movie out of it. The same could be said about the Matrix Reloaded... that movie only had one plot point to make, and it made it in 2 hours rather than 10 minutes... people don't only go to the movies for plot... especially a film with Arnold... they want action... I think this is very much in keeping with the spirit of the Terminator series... in fact I think it took the action aspect to the next level. At least it doesn't take itself too seriously, like most movies in the genre do these days.


I personally was not disappointed at all with T3... and I'm the biggest critic of everything Hollywood puts out these days.


Nick

[mindfuck]

The series is now in a transition stage. Maybe the next movies in the series will have more plot, but what happened in this movie had to happen eventually...

The series is in a transistion stage because they never should have made a third fucking movie. When the original director and key actors decline to work on the project, it's time to call it quits. And no, what happened in this movie didn't have to happen eventually because they pulled it out of thin air as the vehicle for a sequel that shouldn't have existed.

they could have put it all in a 10 minute time span, but decided to make a 2 hour movie out of it. [...] people don't only go to the movies for plot... especially a film with Arnold... they want action...

After Terminator 2 you'd think people would realize that you can have a great plot AND the action the audience craves. And no, the story doesn't consist of the lame catch-phrases and silly shenanigans of the terminators ("talk to the hand"!?!?! jesus). If you watch T2 again you'll see that there was MUCH more to that film.

I think this is very much in keeping with the spirit of the Terminator series... in fact I think it took the action aspect to the next level. At least it doesn't take itself too seriously, like most movies in the genre do these days.

Terminator 1 = serious
Terminator 2 = serious
Terminator 3 = not serious

See anything wrong with that? The series as a whole has lost all creative continuity. The transition period you speak of is the transition from greatness to shit. I have no doubt that they will continue the series with movies like T3 and run the whole damn thing into the ground. Pity.

[TheVoiceOfNick]

I totally understand where you're coming from, mindfuck... maybe I don't take the terminator series as seriously as I take other series... I mean i'm still crying about how George Lucas totally f*cked the Star Wars series in 1999... I guess my level of interest in the terminator series is about a 6/10 and you're probably a 9/10 or a 10/10... I can live with a bomb with some good action sequences, while I know others might not be able to.


Nick

[mindfuck]

I totally understand where you're coming from, mindfuck... maybe I don't take the terminator series as seriously as I take other series... I mean i'm still crying about how George Lucas totally f*cked the Star Wars series in 1999... I guess my level of interest in the terminator series is about a 6/10 and you're probably a 9/10 or a 10/10... I can live with a bomb with some good action sequences, while I know others might not be able to.


Nick

*Nods* I understand your point as well.

Terminator 2 is easily in my top 10. I'm not going to act like I had high hopes for T3 or anything. As I said, I really think they should have left it alone after T2. It pisses me off how Hollywood continues to get away with shit like this. I mean, changing an actor mid-series is bad enough, but losing TWO main actors AND the director and still making the next movie is unforgivable.

Of course, I know the Star Wars thing hurts a lot more considering the director stayed with it and STILL fucked it up. I feel you on that one.

[Banky]

I hear what a lot of you are saying but i mean i think you have slightly unrealistic expectations.  If so many of you went into the movie with "zero expectations" because of all your convictions about different directors/actors/studios, then why the hell do you seem so surprised that it did not live up to the greatness of T2.  As educated movie lovers, witch i think most of us are, than you should realize that since Hollywood currently has a hard on for sequels that are quickly, and carelessly put together, than throw any expectations that might be hiding within you out the window and sit back and try and enjoy a cheesy, action packed, summer movie.  I mean if nothing else this movie gave us all a chance to have entertaining discussions.  Theres always a silver lining.


listen to thier review of T3, i agree with Ropert, most of you will probably agree with Ebert



http://tvplex.go.com/buenavista/ebertandroeper/today.html

[modage]

I personally was not disappointed at all with T3... and I'm the biggest critic of everything Hollywood puts out these days.  Nick

apparently not there, nick.  when is the last time you watched either of the first two movies?  if the terminator "series" was meant to be a fun-blowemup popcorn movie with bad acting, dialogue and no story behind the action, then there would be no problem with this movie.  as that was NOT what the series was about,  whatsoever, this is perhaps a time to be critical.

I hear what a lot of you are saying but i mean i think you have slightly unrealistic expectations.  If so many of you went into the movie with "zero expectations" because of all your convictions about different directors/actors/studios, then why the hell do you seem so surprised that it did not live up to the greatness of T2.  As educated movie lovers, witch i think most of us are, than you should realize that since Hollywood currently has a hard on for sequels that are quickly, and carelessly put together, than throw any expectations that might be hiding within you out the window and sit back and try and enjoy a cheesy, action packed, summer movie.  I mean if nothing else this movie gave us all a chance to have entertaining discussions.  Theres always a silver lining.

if shitting on the legacy of the terminator series is the only way to have an interesting discussion, i think i would prefer a boring one.

[bonanzataz]

modernage,

i agree with you completely. i just got back, this movie blew. anybody defending nick stahl just because they liked in the bedroom has a stick up their ass. his john is one of the worst performances i've ever seen, ever. this whole movie was crap.

one thing that made the original terminators make sense was that they stopped judgment day from happening. it would've happened in 97, but they stopped it, so it didn't. SPOILER!!! this one was pure shit because at the end, judgment day happens! this throws reality out of the window. i did not like it. that's just a small complaint though. it's not my whole reason for not liking the film. SPOILER OVER.

did anybody else get a dr. strangelove vibe from this? all the scenes taking place in military buildings, it feels like the set designer was paying tribute to strangelove. then, the end of the movie is the same as strangelove. nuclear war. after it was over, i got out of my seat and screamed "mein fuhrer! i can walk!"

oh well. all of us who hated t3, we can't be hypocritical assholes anymore. when t4 comes out (and you know it will) we all have to do our part and not see it. that's what i'm going to do. i refuse to give it any grosses that will encourage them to do t5. i have completely lost interest in the progression of the terminator series.

[TheVoiceOfNick]

apparently not there, nick.  when is the last time you watched either of the first two movies?

I actually DID see the terminator movies recently... 1 and 2 before going to see 3... then I just recently bought the extreme dvd of 2 and had to watch it again!

 if the terminator "series" was meant to be a fun-blowemup popcorn movie with bad acting, dialogue and no story behind the action, then there would be no problem with this movie.  

Come on... you must admit Arnie wasn't at his best in T2 either... Eddie Furlong wasn't either (no wonder he really didn't do much after this... besides his crazy ways)... what the other movies in the series had was a captivating storyline... ok, fine... there was no story in T3... i admit it.


If you dislike T3 so much, just consider it to be your "Godfather part 3" (definition of "Godfather part 3": noun. a sequel in a popular movie series that shattered your existence and you wish had never happened)... pretend like it doesn't exist, just like I pretend GF 3 doesn't exist!!!


Nick

[The Idiot]

I find the third to be lacking in all of these things. First, the contrast of man and machine just isn't there. The first two movies really captured the spirit of who he was- a machine devoid of notions of morality, yet yearning to grasp the meaning of humanity despite his machinistic limitations.

In this film, however, I felt like he was nothing more than a hunk of metal taking absurd amounts of damage. This terminator didn't seem to care about who he was...he just had a mission to accomplish. Which, I think, is the main problem of the movie. There isn't a continuity from one T-model to the next. They are all programmed the same way without individual characteristics. The father/son bonding between the terminator and Connor in Judgement Day? Gone. The insights into human strengths and weaknesses through the idea of machines? Gone. The terminator of T3 is a robotic punching bag (which does have its enjoyments).

You can really tell that James Cameron is missing from this movie. With the exception of the crane scene, no other scene stands out in my mind as being really amazing. In T2 you have one incredible action sequence after another. In T3 you have one incredible action sequence and then just action sequences. The plot was pretty much the same as T2. New terminator arrives (except with beauty and curves alongside cutting-edge assassination equipment), old terminator arrives to spew forth mission objectives and find really giant guns. The goodness of T2 comes from how it was portrayed rather than in its layout. T3 doesn't really have anything that sticks out to you.

Cameron really captured the look of the characters: the terminator as a machine seeking to understand human capacity; Sarah Conner as the psychologically harrowed mother; John Conner as the incredibly troubled youth who sees the terminator as a father figure. I felt a large disconnection with the characters in T3. The terminator merely protects Connor and Brewster; it doesn't connect with them. Kate Brewster whines and complains a lot, but she doesn't add anything to the film. Connor is really the only character that is developed, through his initial confusion of destiny and his resolution with the fact that the infamous "Judgement Day" is inescapable. While the new TX has dangerous curves, her weapons are standard sci-fi fare. She is a souped up T-1000 model that can manipulate other machines. Whoop-de-doo.

Simply put, none of these characters are explored. When the terminator is reprogrammed to kill Connor, who cares? He might as well be a lawn mower programmed to chase people. Again, T3 fails to create emotional depth because of this incredibly huge disconnection.

All in all, T3 is a dissappointing film, but I wouldn't call it horrendous. It is a continuation of the story, and it was interesting, especially the destiny element and how it eventually affects everything (the end in particular). All in all, T3 fails to reinforce the integrity of the previous films while failing to enforce its own according to its standards.

Of course, we all know Kristanna Loken is worth the price of admission alone.