Girls

Started by modage, March 16, 2012, 11:52:35 AM

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modage

Yes but 'unlikable' = are we responding to the character or the actor? I think he was great in this role and it's going to be super awkward for them to write him out of the new season after they spent the entire second season putting him and Marnie back together. Also have to imagine the scripts are basically set for Season 3 since aren't they shooting soon? So how much rewriting and re-conceiving of any Charlie/Marnie storylines is going to affect production I can't imagine.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

diggler

If I were them I would just write Marnie off the show too, make her that girl who retreated to the suburbs with her boyfriend, never to be seen again. Then, in a season or two, have her come back after it falls apart to find that everything she knew is different.
I'm not racist, I'm just slutty

Reel

Quote from: modage on April 06, 2013, 09:13:49 AM
Yes but 'unlikable' = are we responding to the character or the actor?
Quote from: ddiggler on April 05, 2013, 08:22:23 AM
I guess his career really took off after that guest spot on Enlightened

Now that I think about it, I did really like him on that episode of 'Enlightened.' So no, it's not Chris himself, but the character of Charlie. I guess the fact that he can play such a believable douche is a testament to his acting ability. His appearance on 'Enlightened' showed us he's not just 'that one guy' and can handle much more interesting roles. Maybe he doesn't want to be typecast as 'The HBO dude' and working with Mike White and Luke Wilson gave him the confidence to try and do some good movies? However the decision was reached, I think it's for the best of the show. I haven't seen the last 4 eps so I don't know how their relationship ties together in the end, but I almost wish he was axed for the entire season.  I'm really not interested in the chemistry between those two, they're the two phoniest people on the show it seems.. but I will watch the last episodes and maybe revisit season 1 to see what it is that I DO like about Charlie, and if he has any redeeming qualities..because right now I can't think of much having been so distanced from the show.

MacGuffin

Lena Dunham analyzes three episodes of 'Girls'
By Glenn Whipp, Los Angeles Times


— Lena Dunham finally moved out of her parents' house last year, buying a modest, one-bedroom apartment in Brooklyn Heights. It's her first place all her own, full of pillows and trophies, located on the top floor of an old building where Dunham is surrounded by elderly neighbors, people the 27-year-old creator and star of the HBO comedy "Girls" calls her "emotional demographic."

"I love them," Dunham says, "though some of them are constantly consternated with me coming home at 10 p.m. They think you're a hooker if you're out past 9:30. That's something I've dealt with. 'You guys! I'm 27 and I'm home six hours before all my peers.'"

Dunham's actual peers have turned "Girls" into one of television's most talked-about — and scrutinized — programs. Though the series is far from a ratings powerhouse, its small audience is obsessive about following the weekly trials and occasional triumphs of its quartet of young New York women. Placing a glass of lemonade carefully next to Dunham's prized, paperback copy of Fran Drescher's "Enter Whining," we asked her to talk about three of the season's most controversial episodes.

"One Man's Trash"

The season's fifth episode found Dunham's Hannah playing house — and having a lot of sex — with Joshua (don't call him "Josh"), a gorgeous doctor played by Patrick Wilson. Hannah's 48-hour tryst gives her a glimpse of a grown-up life far removed from her usual dodgy, day-to-day existence. The episode generated a fair amount of talk over whether an attractive, well-heeled doctor would hook up with Hannah.

Mismatched couple? It's such a funny response, the idea that a handsome, 42-year-old man would never sleep with an awkward, 24-year-old girl. It felt so oddly mathematical, like it was a bunch of scientists who had done a calculation rather than people who had a real grasp on the realities of being alone in the city. There's so many forms of human capital, and they're not all looks.

OK. But Patrick Wilson? That was the only argument I heard: "It feels weird to me." And I'm like, "Dude, I get it. It felt weird to kiss an actor that looked like Patrick Wilson." I get so tired of having to cry out "misogyny," but that's what's going on in this situation. People questioning the idea that a woman could sleep with a man who defied her lot in the looks bracket hews so closely to these really outdated ideas about what makes a woman worth spending time with. Really? Can you not imagine a world in which a girl who's sexually down for anything and oddly gregarious pulls a guy out of his shell for two days? They're not getting married. They're spending two days [having sex], which is something that people do.

Fantasy fulfillment: Richard Shepard, who directed the episode, would use the word "dreamy" to talk about the stylistic choices he was making. And some people thought maybe the whole episode was just a dream of Hannah's. That was an interesting angle. But this isn't "Twin Peaks," you know? I think for Hannah, just sleeping in late is a fantasy. And if you added up the thread counts in her entire house, the linens on Joshua's bed would probably beat it.

"On All Fours"

Hannah's obsessive-compulsive disorder resurfaces, as does the alcoholism — and self-loathing — of her ex, Adam, who has an awful sexual encounter with Natalia, his new girlfriend.

Scariest sex of the season: Questions were thrown out about the idea of consent. Did what Adam do constitute rape? That's hard for me to answer. I'm a rabid feminist. and no woman should ever be placed in a sexual situation that leaves her feeling degraded or compromised. That's not what sex is supposed to feel like. But I don't think Adam is a villain. If he thought he had even touched the R-word, he would be unable to live. To me, it seemed like a terrible miscommunication between two people who didn't know what they really wanted.

Too much? A moment like that, which is so humiliating to Natalia, wouldn't be visceral enough unless you show the offending substance. My dad's personal trainer thought it was too much semen. Everyone's a critic.

Rebuke to porn? In some ways, all the sex on the show is a rebuke to porn. So much of what happens sexually today is from porn. My entire sex life has been against that backdrop. What did it used to be like? I totally don't know. I'd have to sit down with my mother and compare and contrast her early 20s sex life, and that's not a conversation I feel like having.

"Together"

The season finale reunited Hannah and Adam, and Marnie and Charlie, and put Shoshanna back on the market. It was marked by a sweeping romanticism previously unseen in the show.

Adam makes viewers swoon: That's as romantic as I can get as a writer. Adam running to Hannah via FaceTime speaks to the intensity of rom-com endings. Don't people just meet at the coffee shop rather than run to the aiport to find somebody? But we also all want someone to run to the airport to find us. So we wanted something that did both.

Sorry, Charlie: I've had so many concerned Twitter followers ask: What are you going to do without Charlie? (Actor Christopher Abbott left the show.) I want to say, "If the show 'Girls' relied on guys, we'd be up a creek without a paddle." Don't worry. I've tried to come up with an emotionally honest version of the end of that relationship.

Too happy an ending? People are always complaining that there are no wins for the characters. Well, we had an episode of super-wins! It's funny. I don't experience life as being this series of downs, but I've never been drawn to writing about characters experiencing great joy and triumph. Let's just say I'd be the wrong writer for the bright side.
"Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art." - Andy Warhol


Skeleton FilmWorks

MacGuffin

"Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art." - Andy Warhol


Skeleton FilmWorks

Drenk

I like this trailer! But, yeah, Marnie should die, one day, crying in her bed. I don't know. Can't she have toxic tears?
Ascension.

jenkins


^recommended soundtrack to play while sharing feelings about this season of girls

like i always say (when i say it), our reactions to material are based not only on the material, but also on who we are and how we feel when we experience the material, and whether mercury is in retrograde and whatnot

this season of girls is pulling my emotions with a high-level vibrancy. i'm fucking roped in like a [thing that gets roped in a lot], and that's the full truth. tonight i finished episode 5 and i'd drink tea with any of you while we chatted it out. i think this sunday is episode 8 so i'm a bit behind but i'm still going to be typing btw

the shaky-cam in the episode was spot on. how did that happen, first of all. i continue to admire the artistic sensibility of lena dunham and her team. when is the shaky-cam appropriate? during shaky emotions. and how could she not feel shaky during that moment??

i can barely remember earlier seasons. i'd have to read up and etc, to be reminded. but i can tell you what i like about this season: i think the force of life is hitting the characters in the hard, tough way it does. they're not the dreamy idealistic kids they once were, when they were younger and the show was about younger people, and when the idea of the show was young to us

i'm fascinated by this season's narrative direction. after the fist two episodes i was regretting making the life decision to continue watching girls. everything felt recycled to me, closed in. television oriented, something like that, i thought. but i think that nut was cracked on episode 3. now i see the characters dealing with new realities, and i don't think their realities are based on the idea of creating a tv show, so much as ideas in life shaping humans' ideas about who they are and who they can be, and how they can be that person, you know. i think i should i rewrite that sentence but i think you know what i mean

i think it's intense stuff and i like it a lot, and i need it, i do. this season of girls is an example of how art helps restore my broken soul, again and again and again, all through my life

©brad

Yeah this season has been stellar. The break-up episode was one of the best they've done. Ironically outside of Hannah, the characters with the most dimension on Girls are the boys, Ray and Adam. I don't really understand what's going on with the other girls. The writers still have no clue what to do with Jessa. Marnie is pretty insufferable, and I don't see any signs of her maturing or escaping the pitfalls of her own narcissism. It's hard to understand why these girls are even friends at this point. When the show focuses on Hannah, which it almost always does, I'm happy.

jenkins

caught up and i aim to catch up again with this week's

i simply think it's an impressive show. honestly wouldn't trust myself to say this is the best season, but i do know for sure it's the season that's vibed closest with my emotions. i'm total fucking edge of my seat, into every characters' emotions, hannah's especially, hannah's almost exclusively really, except she makes me so emotional that of course i'm caring about everyone. the most is happening to her. i'm dying to know what happens

jenkins

^i'll leave that post but now i wanna ask

©brad you think they blew it this week? i'm like-- i'm like frustrated. always the frustrated one (i don't even get invited to weddings). the dad thing, the shoshanna thing, the goddamn engagement. even hannah jumped the rails. wtf was that tongue piercing scene for? exploitative, right? do you also feel like they suddenly blew it, when i was believing in this season so much, or do you think they simply jumped rails and i'm reacting adversely to change (that's pretty human). i know there's that cloud of protection from the perspective of allowing "full range" and saying i'm not handling full range material. thought the episode was catty though. so, so catty. what do you think

modage

That's so crazy because as someone who was a diehard of this show since Day 1, I'm almost entirely out on it now. Season 1 & 2 were both great but inconsistent. 2 was a mixed bag but the highs were the show's best eps ("One Man's Trash," the coke ep, etc.) but for 3 & 4 outside of the occasional random episode I feel like the show has not only lost its way, I don't believe any of the characters or their relationships to each other. I have no idea what its doing and have come to hate almost everyone except Hannah because I still think Dunham's performance is really great.

It's funny because after all the controversy when the show premiered about having 'likeable characters' I find myself now just baffled in every scene thinking, "Are we supposed to hate both people onscreen right now? I think they're horrible but do the writers know this?" (For instance, scenes with Marnie and her guitar-hero beau.) It's this disconnect that makes the show just frustrating but fascinating to watch.

I think in retrospect the nail in the coffin was when they decided that Adam, the total creep, was going to be Adam, prince charming & Hannah's great love, and pivoted the entire show to accommodate this. Still love Lena Dunham but wondering if the show can ever recover from having been adrift for essentially 2 seasons.
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Drenk

SPOILERS SEASON 4

To me, this is about a friendship falling apart. Remember Beach House, last season? They're not really friends anymore. Sometimes, they're all in the same scene because Marnie is singing and everybody hates Marnie. Marnie and her boyfriend? The show is obviously aware they're awful, it's almost an horror story. I couldn't say why, in a story level, they're relevant. I don't know where the story is going. The show itself doesn't always know where it's going. But I love Girls.

Dunham is a great actress, she's funny in her own way, and when she has to be emotional I always find it heartbreaking. This season, she realized she wasn't a writer. It was an important storyline; then, you had the breakup, and it was good to watch Hannah being aware of how she is, what's her life, what it has been. She needs to change but stays this embarrassing narcissistic person who's talking way too much but stays, in my opinion, a character I care about.

What about the rest? Soshanna and Ray aren't Jessa and Marnie. The viewer can care about them. What about Jessa and Marnie? I don't know. But they're a part of Hannah's world. The last scene between Hannah and Marnie was fantastic. Because they're living different lives, and we know how naive and stupid Marnie is, we all dislike who she is, and we remember when they were kind of friends. I'm just writing incoherent thoughts right now...

Anyway! Good show! With sometimes absolutely fantastic episodes. I like it.
Ascension.

©brad

I always have to remind myself this show is either not interested or very good at season arcs and long-form narrative. The plotting is so scattershot and story lines are so quickly abandoned that it's hard to evaluate Girls season by season. For instance, I loved everything going on in Iowa, but after all that build up from last season, Hannah was back in New York in 3 episodes. This teaching subplot is interesting but it looks like Hannah is already done with it. Can't the writers commit to something?

Mod I'm interested in hearing what you think is so different about the first two seasons vs these last two. I think Girls remains a messy, inconsistent yet occasionally brilliant show with glimpses of great writing and usually at least one solid scene in each episode. We're so used to evaluating a series based on seasons now but this show feels more like an anthology of short films.

As for the characters and the likability debate, I always subscribe to the idea that characters don't have to be likable, just interesting. Thing is there is nothing dramatically interesting going on with Marnie right now. I also don't get why the writers are so lazy with Jessa story lines. She had a nice moment with that older woman she was taking care of back in the first episode. Now she's just being horrible to everyone and obsessing over some dude we haven't met.

I think I'd like the show better if it was called Girl and was just about Hannah.






jenkins

thanks for reporting back ©brad and i wanna tattoo your post on my face because it gave me the clarity i needed. are you related to polka? are you cousins? do you like horses? what's your favorite animal? i got a lot of questions and glad to have you around

this is a huge fucking problem and it was staring at me the whole time but i couldn't name it:
story lines are so quickly abandoned

i don't like it, because it gives my investment in the show a rocky foundation. i could explain more but i'd be paraphrasing ©brad really

jenkins

begins with sexploitation, dad stuff funny like crazy, stupid, love, troubs with making friends at school forever, politics and speeches related to past relationships, and a new song from grimes. it's melodramatic and i'm back in, it won be back in one episode, with fun melodrama