Author Topic: Grind House  (Read 83354 times)

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socketlevel

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #285 on: May 24, 2007, 11:22:40 AM »
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I guess I would say it is unlikely that an English story would feature a general getting an Eastern education, but since there isn't a specific story to reference, I also could say it is possible. You say it is unlikely for a Japanese general to speak about a nondemocratic society in a positive light, but I'd say it is more unlikely that a General would be allowed in a nondemocratic society to go to the United States to be awarded a major award. But yet the evidence in the film suggests exactly that happened.

This also happened, historically, when FDR issued major economic sanctions against Japan that was crippling them and FDR, since being named President, showed nothing but hostility toward the country.

no, i said it was unlikely that a western general (mainly American) would speak about a nondemocratic society in a positive light, not the Japanese general.  and moreover, i said speak positively about the society and through that difference of ideologies find wisdom.

Alright. Usually when someone tells me it works for them on an "existential level", I think they can't describe or explain how they feel, but the rest of your post has to do with your feelings. I know other people who know and respect my feelings on Mallick, but buy into everything he does anyways. I can't argue feelings.

appreciated, cuz trust me i hate making the "existential level" comment cuz it's a bitch of a show stopper.  by taking it to that level you essentially look like you're trying to find and out of the conversation... and alas i used it, LOL.  however true it is.

As I remember, Travolta and Nolte really have walk in roles. Their isn't much to their performance besides a few speeches. Is that the proper to way to give context to an hour and a half of grunt soldiers trying to save their own skin? I felt both of their roles were add ons that had little weight. Your idea of the difference between commanders and soldiers makes sense on paper, but the film doesn't go the lengths to really show that.

minor in screen time, however i felt a major impact in the juxtaposing effect their roles had.  Travolta less then notle, but then again nolte is on the screen much longer than Travolta.  but it's like the chain of command thing.  Travolta's arrogance and condescending tone is passed to nolte, who on one hand needs to prove himself to his superiors and on another level wants to prove himself to the idea of his father and his grandfather's tenure as battle champions.  all the while the soldiers are trying to find peace, and solace from the horror.

I also have another point of contention with The Thin Red Line. Many people claim bias and racism in films about America dealing with other countries. Many say these films promote American greatness. Well, I say there is a reverse racism in The Thin Red Line. The film digs into the insanity of war and tries to find a counterbalance with soldiers finding peace and tranquility elsewhere. The place they find it is in a native village with simplified life and what looks like peaceful living that is outside of the larger societies that makes war normal.

Well, c'mon. This undermines the society of that village. Every society has war as a fact of life. But yet Mallick is so limited in his ability to find a great counterpoint to the insanity of war that he simplifies another culture and implies that they have greater wisdom because they are not caught in the net of war. Pauline Kael use to say that too many films assumed higher knowledge in primitive societies because they didn't complicate their lives. But no society stands outside of war and this film does not show the depths of what feelings go through those people. It is a broad stroke of generalizing another culture as peaceful.

i think even though it might undermine the society of the village we have to keep in mind that it is a simpler way of life, which is pretty much universal.  the same way that a rural way of life, for example living on a farm, is a simpler way of life compared to living in a big city.  if you compare a soldier of war to that of the day to day activities of someone living in a native tribe, there is a sense of these smaller things in life has having greater value to that character.

i don't think mallick was assuming higher knowledge in a primitive societies on an intellectual level, but rather a spiritual thing.  There is not doubt that these societies are heavily based on spirituality, which governs a lot of what they do and when they do it.  besides, I'm sure the people living in the village have their own internal drama and daily concerns like any other society.  For instance: i'm sure people are murdered out of passion; there is the little kid that's picked on cuz he's smaller than the rest; there is the mother who fears for her daughter; that neighbor you hate; stupid behaviors; there is insecurity and strength and all that other shit that makes life life...

But, why would the film show that?  it's not what the film is about.

since it is a peaceful and humble way to live, the character was attracted to that freedom and therefore that is what was shown and used as the frame of comparison.  they weren't there long enough to get into drama with the other characters, or see who the tribe's predators are.  That's saved for a movie like Blood Diamond or mosquito coast or something (the later being a movie i absolutely love btw).   I'm sure their lives are complicated with the things they have to do, and that there are physical dangers of living where they do, or the politics of power regarding leadership in the tribe and etc.   this isn't a film about that native tribe.  It exists in the film to show the audience where the character's head is at, so the rest of the movie can unfold yet we know where his heart is.

with all that said i do agree with your points to an extent.  it would have been nice to see mallick at least surprise the audience by depicting the tribe slightly different than what is normally shown in film.  like something through dialog that surprises the audience would work, and also give them a new found respect for those people.  i don't know I'm just brain storming here, but you get my point.  that woulda been nice.
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socketlevel

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #286 on: May 24, 2007, 11:29:20 AM »
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The materialism idea is funny. I never heard that one, but you imply either you love it you don't. I agree. I just don't which is why I'm staying away from movies like 28 Days Later.


wow, that's the whole thing about the movie that makes it great!  i wrote an article/essay on the living dead movies once, if you're interested I'll post it on the site.  not that it'll make you a fan, but you never never know.

living dead movies are kinda a guilty pleasure to me.  however guilty pleasures also have to have some kind of subtext for me to like them.  that's why I'm one of the biggest john carpenter fans, i love all his movies from the 80s: they live; the thing; big trouble in little china; etc...

death proof is kinda like that for me too.  do you have any guilty pleasure?  or do you not identify with that kinda thing in cinema at all.

Well, maybe because Tarantino writes the dialogue so much better he proves another point: that improved dialogue can not make an exploitation film any better.

Maybe I'm wrong to assume Tarantino can twist genre the way he did with Pulp Fiction anymore. Now all he can do is replicate it at its very worst and keeps the enjoyment limited to those who already bought into it. If he keeps this up I may have to bow out from following him.

fair enough, to each his/her own.

so you do follow him?  did you like kill bill?
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Pubrick

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #287 on: May 24, 2007, 11:32:31 AM »
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so you do follow him?  did you like kill bill?

GT, these are both yes or no questions.
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socketlevel

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #288 on: May 24, 2007, 11:52:03 AM »
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so you do follow him?  did you like kill bill?

GT, these are both yes or no questions.

but yes and no are boring
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cine

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #289 on: May 31, 2007, 02:55:43 AM »
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so ANYWAY... i haven't seen that many new releases in 2007.. but this was by far the best movie experience ive had all year. the action was insane.. and when there was comedy it was hilarious. i know it wasn't written by RR or QT but the "Don't" trailer was hysterical. god, and the "missing reels". i was with a great crowd; people were applauding it and howling. so great.

a lot of the same QT stuff.. the foot massage references, the big kahuna burger references.. the female dominance/revenge.. it was all there. whatta great time. loved it.

tpfkabi

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #290 on: May 31, 2007, 12:47:34 PM »
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i just found out yesterday this is playing still intact (both films) at the $1 theater until today.

here's a question i have wanted to ask - what do they do with film prints - meaning, when you have all these prints and the movie basically disappears in two weeks, what do they do with all the prints? most of the time i'll see movies show up at the $1 theater right around the time the come out on video, so Grind House was unique in that it's not even close to coming out on video and is said to be split up and released seperately.
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Ghostboy

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #291 on: May 31, 2007, 01:10:10 PM »
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The prints get shipped back to the releasing company; some are saved, but the majority are destroyed.

tpfkabi

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #292 on: May 31, 2007, 01:16:03 PM »
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The prints get shipped back to the releasing company; some are saved, but the majority are destroyed.

Really? Aren't the prints very expensive? I would think they would at least try to sell them to private collectors or the public before destroying them and getting no money from it.
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Gold Trumpet

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #293 on: June 06, 2007, 12:38:20 AM »
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so you do follow him?  did you like kill bill?

GT, these are both yes or no questions.

Pretty much.

I think our conversation is at it's end. I forgot to post a reply, but anything I could say to his points is an agreement to disagree. But I definitely did love the conversation.

And Socketlevel, send me that piece on living dead movies. Not only would I like to read it, but I'd also like to post it on Green Screen. I send my apologies for not posting this sooner.

MacGuffin

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #294 on: June 11, 2007, 10:55:16 AM »
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Tarantino's 'Death Proof' Gets September Release
Source: Bloody-Disgusting     

So much for a re-release of Dimension Films' Grindhouse as it appears that Genius Entertainment and The Weinstein Co. will release Death Proof - Quentin Tarantino's segment - on DVD September 18th, according to Davis DVD. No word yet on Robert Rodriguez's Planet Terror, but this seems to confirm the rapid speculation that the theatrical double feature will be split up for the initial home video release. Death Proof is a rip-roaring slasher flick where the killer (Kurt Russell) pursues his victims with a car rather than a knife.
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MacGuffin

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Re: Grind House
« Reply #295 on: July 27, 2007, 12:46:51 AM »
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    SDCC: Grindhouse Gets Cut in Two
    Separate DVD releases for Death Proof and Planet Terror

    The Weinstein Company and Genius Products announced today that the two films that made up the classically under-rated Grindhouse release will hit DVD on two separate, extended and unrated DVDs.

    Quentin Tarantino's serial-killer homage to the old school car chase film, Death Proof will hit shelves with over 30 minutes of additional, never-before-seen footage including the maddening "missing reel" (containing the excised lapdance sequence) as well as a black and white segment in the film's second act. The DVD will hit on September 18, 2007 for a price of $29.95. Features will include:

    *Finding Quentin's Gals

    *The Guys of Death Proof

    *Kurt Russell as Stuntman Mike

    *Introducing Zoe Bell

    *Quentin's Greatest Collaborator: Editor Sally Menke

    *Double Dare trailer

    *International Poster Gallery


    Meanwhile, the Robert Rodriguez zombie entry, Planet Terror, will attack with more footage, deleted scenes, a full commentary and the infamous missing reel. That disc will drop on October 16, 2007 for a price of $29.95 and its features will include:


    *Audio Commentary with Writer/Director Robert Rodriguez

    *International trailer

    *Deleted Scenes

    *Cooking School

    *10-Minute Film School

    *The Stunts

    *The Make-up and Effects

    *The Badass Babes

    *The Renegade Guys

    *The Costumes

    *The Production Design[/list]
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    Kal

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    Re: Grind House
    « Reply #296 on: July 27, 2007, 01:28:54 AM »
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    Great... I can skip Tarantinos bullshit


    tpfkabi

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    Re: Grind House
    « Reply #297 on: August 01, 2007, 11:22:06 AM »
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    i'm wondering if all those faux trailers will show up on the dvd's?

    i didn't get to see them, so i have no idea of the titles (other than Machete).

    i see "double dare" trailer, but have no idea if that is one or a reference to Death Proof and one of it's trailers.
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    Re: Grind House
    « Reply #298 on: August 01, 2007, 11:25:37 AM »
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    Edgar Wright said recently in a Hot Fuzz DVD interview that his trailer will not be on either of the DVD's coming out soon, but rather on whatever superset comes out in the future.  i assume the other trailers will be the same way.
    Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

    grand theft sparrow

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    Re: Grind House
    « Reply #299 on: August 01, 2007, 11:40:29 AM »
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    If you... are thinking... of buying... these... DVDs...


     

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