Introducing Myself and My Movie Idea

Started by matt35mm, February 24, 2004, 12:05:47 AM

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matt35mm

Hello, my name is Matt.  I'm pretty new here, but I have been reading this site a little bit for a while.  Big PTA fan, found this link on the Cigs & Coffee website.

I am a high school student - age 18 - and despite the young age I have known that I want to be a filmmaker since I was 11.  I've saved up $6,000 and am readying to make a movie!  It's not a giant sum of money but I feel like I can inflict a fair amount of damage with it anyway.

So what could I offer that most filmmakers cannot?  A real teenage point of view - screw speculation or memory, this is the direct source, right?  So with that in mind, I came up with this idea for a short movie (the length is flexible, up for grabs, but still probably under 40 mins, so still a short).

I have been around this site long enough to know to trust you guys.  I totally respect your opinions and you guys know your stuff.  I feel at home here!

SO!  Here is the basic idea:

A documentary/fiction hybrid.  This movie is an examination of teen-related violence (school shootings, gang violence, fights, violent thoughts and tendencies, all of that) from the teenage point of view.  I've seen Bowling for Columbine, I know about the movie Elephant, and of the play Bang Bang You're Dead--and I believe this movie has something different to offer.
 
The media.  Video games.  Movies.  Music.  Bad parenting.  Lack of religion OR crazy psycho zealous religion-freak.  These things have been what people (namely, adults) have placed much blame on for many of the past events, such as the Columbine Shooting and the various other shootings and general violent behavior.  But these aren't the things I would place the blame in.
 
For one, looking for an easy answer to these complex (and probably unanswerable) questions is a flawed stance to take.  Secondly, if you asked a teenager--whose point of view simply cannot be discounted, as this is about the teenage mind in the first place--I don't think they would say that the music and movies that they take in fill them with any sense of violence.
 
I want to take the camera around school and get the point of view from various people.  There is a German foreign exchange student who is very eager to be involved in the movie, and I think that a German teen's point of view on this whole matter would be a very interesting addition to the movie.  Yes, I do want articulate and intelligent arguments, but will not discount any point of view or mask anyone's opinions, provided that they can back it up well enough.  I don't lean any particular way and am not interested in providing any solid answer--only to present these different point of views.
 
These will be put in the along with a fiction piece:
 
I don't know about you guys, but I know that I've gotten angry enough to want to grab someone's head and bash it hard against the wall.  I visualize this in my head as I get angry.  I feel the rage take over me.  But of course, I turn and walk away.  Nevertheless, those violent thoughts are there, they exist in my mind.  So I feel that anyone is capable of being very violent--or at least, not necessarily who you would expect.
 
The fictionalized part of the movie would go a little something like this:  A nice, normal guy, good student, all of that is the murderer.  As nice and normal as he may be, he is still prone to rage.  Say something fairly rage-worthy happened to him, and he snapped, and he kills a kid.  So none of this is pre-meditated, and he's not crazy.  He knows killing is wrong, just as we do.  He has no excuses and completely owns up to what he did.  It wasn't even temporary insanity--it was plain and simple rage.
 
He cooperates and goes with the police.  The police have a close friend of his go and talk to him.  A lot of this is him and her talking, discussing what happened, discussing what he was thinking. Or him talking to a psychologist (seeing if he can plead insanity).  Either way, he talks specifically about his thoughts to someone.
 
The point of having the fictionalized part is to present a story that many of us (I think) can identify with.  Any one of us is capable of killing someone--it's pretty easy.  When someone is crazy or stupid, it's easier to distance ourselves from that person, but when that person is closer to what we are like, that becomes more difficult.  In any case, it's probably a more realistic example, also.
 
Of course when two guys dress up in military garb and shoot up a school, we can say, "Oh they were crazy, and here's why!"  And then begin to list the reasons.  But those kids shot themselves, so we can't really get their point of view, and even if we could, it'd probably be some stupid, crazy answer.
 
This guy in our movie would be able to present us with the point of view of the murderer.  Now, I can't really speak for a murderer, but that's not really the point.  By having this here, we remind the audience that we have to at least try and think about that perspective--that side of the story.  Ultimately, the reasoning behind the murder could be very understandable--that just doesn't excuse the crime, though.
 
Anyway, I could go on with the various things we could examine concerning this topic.  As young people, we probably wouldn't go and blame the media that we ourselves watch (and why should we when we know that the media doesn't make us kill people?), so at the very least, this movie will present a different point of view--one worth listening to.
 
Tell me what you think!  Sorry I went on for so long.  I really like this idea.
 
Thanks!
 
Matt

Ghostboy

Hey Matt, weclome to the site.

There are good and bad things about your idea. You have an original take on the concept, and the fictionalized part sounds especially great, since it doesn't follow the mass murder/suicide route that would automatically get you compared to Elephant, while still examining the same ideas.

However, at the same time, there is the fact that Elephant and Bowling For Columbine came out, and also Zero Day, which I didn't see, but which was sort of a fictionalized account of a school killing by way of found footage, a la Blair Witch. It was supposed to be pretty good, but it came and went in theaters pretty quickly.

What I'd do, before you begin, is make sure you see Elephant and maybe Zero Day too (both should be coming to DVD fairly soon), just to make sure you're not going to be treading the same ground.

Also -- $6,000? Way to go! You're all set.

metroshane

I agree with Ghostboy.  

However, why is it that most 18 yr olds try to change the world?  It's pretty common for young men coming into adulthood to feel as if they need to change the world and have very optimistic ideas...they feel as if adults just don't understand teens.  They've got fresh ideas that will enlighten the world.  I mean, come on, every teen that read "catcher in the rye" just knows that no one feels his pain...when in reality we've all been there.  What I'd like to see from a teen is "what kind of movie is it you really want to see".  I'll be damned if the real answer is Confessions of a Teenage drama queen or American Pie 42.    

But good luck with your idea.
We live in an age that reads too much to be intelligent and thinks too much to be beautiful.

kotte

Quote from: metroshaneHowever, why is it that most 18 yr olds try to change the world?

I know exactly what you're talking about. It's so true.

classical gas

Quote from: kotte
Quote from: metroshaneHowever, why is it that most 18 yr olds try to change the world?

I know exactly what you're talking about. It's so true.

Because either they are not yet so disillusioned or they haven't faced up to reality.  

and kotte, your toes are oddly disproportioned; not to be mean, i just never noticed...

matt35mm

Quote from: classical gas
Because either they are not yet so disillusioned or they haven't faced up to reality.  
Hahaha, what am I supposed to say to that?

I'm not trying to change the world, and I don't feel like adults don't understand teenagers.  Nevertheless, I don't feel like I got to hear what teenagers thought--I didn't hear them get to really speak--when teen violence was a hot topic.

I'm really not trying to change the world, here.  My point was, why make a movie if you've got nothing new to offer?  And what did I have to offer?  Ultimately, teens talk differently when interviewed on the news by news reporters than if they were just talking to a buddy--I'm in a position to capture the second thing, and that's what I have to offer.

I'm just an ambitious filmmaker.  Age has nothing to do with my thoughts that I should bring something different to the screen.

Thanks, however, for the feedback so far.  I will check out Elephant and Zero Day, and will do a bunch of research concerning this matter to make sure I'm not doing something that's been done before.

matt35mm

I should also add that this is a new idea--I mean I just thought of it and what I presented were my initial thoughts.  The movie will change as it is developed, naturally.  So your comments and stuff, they will help!

But based on various discussions that I've had since presenting this idea, I'm tempted to say this movie is an examination of human violence in general, and what teens think of that--not specifically school shootings (which differs it from a lot of movies).  Bowling for Columbine examined gun culture in modern America, so that is kinda different from the movie I want to make, plus I don't lean any particular way and won't give statistics trying to prove any points.  We may or may not even delve into what teens think about adult violence, I'm not sure.  A lot of this would be based around the material that I get, anyway, so I guess a lot of it is still up for grabs.

I want to examine the violent nature that I think exists in everyone, and how that surfaces in America today.  Any one of us is capable of being a killer, but most of us aren't, and some of us are--that's interesting to me.  Also, I can't interview everyone from all over, so I guess this would still be specific to the small, suburban town that I live in--although I could travel a little, I suppose, I don't think it'll go anywhere outside California.

Still, what we discuss now on this forum WILL make a difference to the film.  The film is in such an early stage that much of it is changing rapidly.  Right now is just an idea stage.

Thanks again!

Matt

Raikus

The most important thing is not to rush the story and the subject. Make sure you have a well-researched, well thought out plan for the movie before you start the gears. Ambition is great, but planning is the necessity.

I think you may be limiting your subject by taking one approach towards inherent violence (that is, school shootings). It may be beneficial to examine a variety of violent activities that could take place in a small town through the eyes of teenagers. For instance, an interwoven story involving an abused teen, a violent bully, a raging misanthrope and a drug abuser. Obviously you'd want to avoid stereotypes like the previous sentence, but still explore the many different avenues for violence and its cause and raw passion.

Just thinking on the idea, you could go in the opposite direction and make a Breakfast Club meets Heathers type movie where the violent elements are represented by the jock, nerd, criminal, princess and weirdo.  :wink:
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands, with all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves, let me forget about today until tomorrow.

metroshane

I wasn't bashing your idea...just asking a separate question.  Violence is a reaction to something...a symptom of something else.  Try to explore what the something else is.

Michael moore continually asks the question...just never bothers trying to answer it.
We live in an age that reads too much to be intelligent and thinks too much to be beautiful.

matt35mm

Ooh Ooh, yeah.  This whole thing has yet to be fully developed, so there's a lot to change, for sure.

I know this wasn't clear in that first thing I wrote, but I am not limiting it to school-related violence (such as shootings or whatever).  I want to examine violence in general, from a teenage perspective.  I'm not saying that we have more to say or anything like that, but it is a perspective that both adults and teens have agreed with me hasn't been all that well represented in the past.

The point of the fiction piece is to show someone who is very much like us, who you simply don't expect this from.  A "normal" guy.  I really think that every human being has that sense of violence that he or she is born with.  Based on this, what is the line that separates killers and the rest of us?  Could I, myself, be pushed to murder someone?  So the fictional character will be based on what I and others would imagine how things would play out if we were to be in that position.  What would drive us to that?  His act would be something very human, someone that I want people to identify with in some way.

That character, even though he is a teenager, is not representing only teenagers--he represents the violent nature that exists in everyone of all ages.  The fiction piece would be for that, and is, yes, limited to that.

Through the interviews, we can examine other sorts of acts of violence, or just violent thoughts.  And ultimately, I don't know what I'm going to get for this part.  I do have some questions that I want to ask, but these will basically be filmed conversations.  But I do want to explore the whole idea of violence--the thoughts that we all have as well as the crazy violent acts that have happened.

We could even delve into how America is pretty much the Crazy War Country in the world right now.  The way we, as a society, see violence is different from, say, Germany, or to more of an extreme, countries where terrorist activities are celebrated.  Even as a country, we think about violence differently.

Then what of the movies and music that we take in?  That is another thing to explore.

I am trying my very best to do a lot of planning.  There will be several months of pre-production, no doubt, as we mull over what we want to examine and what questions to ask and the shape of the movie and all that.  While I am excited, I'm not going to rush through this.  And I have no deadline, this could very well go on for... well, it could go on as long as I need it to.
QuoteViolence is a reaction to something...a symptom of something else. Try to explore what the something else is.
This is definitely something important.  That is something to look at as well, a question to ask.

Of the teenagers that I've asked, a lot of them are eager to share their thoughts, as they feel like their point of view on this has not been well represented.  And the people that I've asked are smart people who do go and do research and all of that before just blurting out ideas--I guess that's just Advanced Placement training for ya.  So I do trust them to give some solid arguements and provide something interesting to think about.

And another clarification, there is no school shooting involved--that's been done in movies already and all that.  This fictional character is just pissed off enough to grab somebody's head and smash it against the ground or something like that.  He gets really angry and with one swift bash, kills the other person.  So that's something that I think people can believe, and can identify with--I could see that happening to me or my friends or my teachers or parents... on and on.  So don't think about the whole school shooting thing, cuz that's really not an especially big part of this--although would be examined in addition to all the other stuff.

Recce

Ok, you're probly jsut gonna blow me off after reading the next sentence, but I don't think the fictionalized aspect of the piece is such a good idea, nor is it needed. I agree with you when you say that the causes of teenage violence haven't really been portraited very accurately. It's always the opinion of some egg head who's spent the past 5 years reading books, as opposed to interacting with people, that's taken as true. I, personally, don't believe that TV or Film violence leads to violence in people. People might get ideas from watching violence on the screen, but the inherent desire to commit violence is caused by something completely different, I would think.

As far as the fictionalized thing, I guess I just don't see what it would bring to your project. If you are trying to portray the opinion of 'real' teenagers who have to live with violence every day, that sounds great, but adding a fictionalized part to it would feel over-dramatized. Especially since you'll be producing it with no real knowledge or experience as to what causes 'rage', as you put it.

As far as the documentary part of it, I think you may be on to something. Getting teenagers to open up to another teenager might actually work. But you have to be careful. If I remember my high school years correctly, most people are pretty stupid, at least when you stick a camera in their face. This is why you might want to hold the interviews in a more controlled environment and individually, rather then jsut running around campus asking random groups of people what they think causes teenage violence. Either they'll act like idiots and wave at the camera, or spit out some brainwashed answer without really thinking about it. In that sense, its good that your asking more 'intelligent' people who actually have genuine opinions to share what they think. On the other hand, it might make your piece a bit biaised. You'll just be looking at what a certain class of people think, as opposed to what each different class thinks. If you can, it might be cool to interview some people with criminal records, or at least a history of violence. Obviously, it might be hard to get someone like that to share, but if you can, it would go a long way to strenghtening your piece. But you don't even have to go that far. Ask the people you're going to interview what their experience with rage and violence has been. Everyone has gone off at some point or another for whatever reason. Ask them to share with you what the circumstances were and why they think they reacted the way they did.

Also, I'm not sure if you've worked on any projects in the past (I would hope so, seeing as you say you've wanted to be a filmmaker since you were 11), but it's been my experience that diving into a project and saying it will be 40 minutes is a bit over-zealous. With the subject you are trying to document, 40 minutes would just bore you're audience. I sincerely doubt you'll be able to maintain the audiences attention for that long, nor will you be able to get enough worthwhile footage to fill that time. Don't lay down a time frame. It should be as long as it needs to be, not as long as you can stretch it. Shoot some footage for a while and see where it takes you.

Also, I think you need to really focus your subject and the message you're trying to convey. Saying your gonna concentrate on violence in general is way, way too broad. It's a very complex subject, so you'll jsut end up scratching the surface and will accomplish little, I would think. Instead, think of it as an exploration of 'rage'. You want discover, for example, what it takes to make different people succumb to it. Get different people with different temperaments and ask them what has caused them to 'loose it' in the past.

BTW, don't limit yourself by what has already been done. If you feel that the piece needs to go somewhere that has already been covered by, say, Bowling for Columbine, go there anyways. If we let what's been done bother us, we'd all be going 'Oh, I can't do an ECU, they did that in Taxi Driver...damn.'

Sorry this has been so long...I'll be quiet now.
"The idea had been growing in my brain for some time: TRUE force. All the king's men
                        cannot put it back together again." (Travis Bickle, "Taxi Driver")

matt35mm

I'm actually very open to ideas right now, and I thank you so much for your thoughts.  I wouldn't blow off the idea of not doing a fictional part, but I wouldn't easily scrap it, either.  I have a lot of ideas at this point, but so much of it is up for grabs.  But I still want to share the ideas that I have:

For the interviews, I want to do a combination of things.  I want a balance, of course.  I want to do controlled interviews, yes.  I also want to do that running around with a camera thing, too.  I would be foolish to not expect a lot of hand waving and stupid behavior, but if I shoot a lot of stuff, there could be something good in there, and if there isn't, I just don't put it in the movie.  At this point (remember, it's very tentative as a plan), I want to do the interviews in three parts:  One, controlled indoor interviews with both teens and adults--probably separately, but possibly carefully matched pairs of teens and adults together.  I would pick those people and they would be the smart, articulate kids of the school.  Two, I would sit in one place with the camera set up, and let anyone who wants to share their opinions come to me, whoever wants to.  Third, I would actively go up to people and ask.

Violence is a broad subject, and I'm very keen on your idea of focusing in a bit more.  I'm thinking to keep violence in general as still a sort of general background but focus specifically more on rage, I suppose.  I'll have to think more about that.

As for the fictional part, you may be right, it may not work at all.  I'll shoot the interviews first, and just shoot as much as I can and see where things go before I make a final decision concerning that.  But my goal with that idea was to show, in a narritive format, a specific story that shows this violence and rage.  So the movie is part fiction, part non-fiction, but the movie as a whole is still a documentary; it is a document of how, at least, all the people that I interview--and I want to interview all different kinds of people--feel about this subject in 2004.

But there's a lot to develop and I know that the movie overall sounds very simple, still.  But I need to talk to a lot of people about things to help me develop it--we're still pre-production, nowhere near production.  I have a relative who is a psychologist and I want to talk to her, to possible delve into more interesting and psychological aspects of violence.

Thank you again for your thoughts--they really help.  I am honestly thinking about everything that you said.

matt35mm

OH, and about the experience that I've had?  I've done practising with all the tools and stuff, so I know the camera, know the editing stuff, practice and study editing, sound, all those things.  But as for actual experience?

I'm about to get it.  The timing is perfect, because I still have a while before I actually start shooting my movie.  I have been invited to be one of four cameramen for a documentary on a film festival.  The film festival, and the documentary on it, is run and directed by the film professor at... maybe the Univerisity of Arizona or something like that.  I'm not sure, but my brother--an English professor--is good friends with him, and when the film professor mentioned that he was looking for someone with knowledge and passion who was looking for experience, my brother mentioned me.  So we worked it out and I'm on board and am looking to fly out to Arizona next week.

The film festival is focused on Iranian female filmmakers--and apparently the most respected ones are coming to this festival.  There will be interviews with them that I will be shooting, as well as covering the festival overall.

I think this will provide perfect experience and practice for my movie.  We'll see how things go, though.

Pastor Parsley

Sounds like you have some good ideas.  Most are going to be skeptical about an 18 year old trying to tackle such a subject, which by and large they should be.  But don't let it get to you, just be sure that you don't revisit all the same, tired arguements.  With all the publicity surrounding this topic it will have to be pretty original for anyone to listen.  No one can deny it's an important subject, but we are all tired of it.  

I think one of the difficulties concerning this topic is denial.  A murderer is always labeled as insane regardless, because it is easier for us to distance ourselves from them and not have to examine ourselves.  As humans, we are experts at deluding ourselves in the face of obvious proof.  We each do it every day.  The best insights I've seen on this subject was in a book called  The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature
By Steven Pinker.  It's a pretty broad book on human nature, but there are about ten to fifteen pages on violence that are pretty enlightening.  I would think those pages are a must read for you.

matt35mm

Y'know, my dad is a Steven Pinker fan, so I just might do that.  He might even have that book.  Thanks!