Author Topic: Lost (spoilers)  (Read 237156 times)

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Kal

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1875 on: October 02, 2013, 07:31:01 PM »
+1
Problem is not that it was magical, it's that it took itself too seriously to explain why it wasn't magical at first and then they threw logic out the window.

At first they explained the electromagnetism of the island, that made it special, and why Dharma was there, and why the plane crashed, etc. All that was great. Even going as far as the Constant with Desmond was pretty brilliant, out there, but brilliant and awesome.

Then the time travel, which was crazy already, and that donkey wheel, a little ridiciulous, but OK...

But then the origin of the smoke monster? And good vs. evil? And two brothers fighting over their mom? And it turns out all this shit was over some mommy issues? And then reviving Locke just to keep the actor in the show? I mean, too much stupid stuff too soon. It ruined all the stuff that made the early seasons great.

And stuff also contradicts each other. One episode, Ben "summons" the smoke monster somehow to kill soldiers. How did he do that if the smoke monster was just this rogue dude?

I mean, I could go on for hours and we already did this way back when. The difference between this and Dexter was that this was still entertaining and suspenseful somehow even with all the bullshit. Characters stay mostly true to themselves too. But the plot was just ridiculous towards the end.


Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1876 on: October 02, 2013, 08:56:50 PM »
0
Problem is not that it was magical, it's that it took itself too seriously to explain why it wasn't magical at first and then they threw logic out the window.

^ Textbook backlash against the stealth science fiction. I hate to say it but reactions like this make me love Lost even more.

To your point, some very weird stuff was going on in the pilot, including an unseen force making Jurassic Park noises and wreaking havoc on the island. Two episodes later, we learned that Locke had miraculously gained the ability to walk. But the brilliance of Season 1 was that it then began to lull people with the character development, only to crack things open again at the end of the season.

And stuff also contradicts each other. One episode, Ben "summons" the smoke monster somehow to kill soldiers. How did he do that if the smoke monster was just this rogue dude?

A totally legitimate question. It's answered in the show. Ben says this:

"It’s where I was told I could summon the monster. That’s before I realized that it was the one summoning me."

I don't believe for a second that Ben was able to summon him (nor does Ben, apparently). Smoke Monster / Man in Black is the show's trickster and manipulator, starting (I think) in early Season 1 when he appears as Jack's father to lead him to water.
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MOGWAI

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1877 on: October 02, 2013, 09:35:44 PM »
0
Come on ya'll, let's rewatch this show from the beginning again as well! There's only 200 episodes or something. :yabbse-grin:

Brando

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1878 on: October 02, 2013, 09:43:27 PM »
0
Come on ya'll, let's rewatch this show from the beginning again as well! There's only 200 episodes or something. :yabbse-grin:

I've been wanting to rewatch it but there's 121 episodes.
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Neil

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1879 on: October 02, 2013, 10:04:56 PM »
0
It's funny that Lindelof is done talking about it/defending it, and fans aren't.  Or at least, that's what Linelof claims he'll do. Anyways, he's right, despite the ego that's noticeable in that write-up.  JB's giving knock-down answers and most likely, not one person will change their mind about it.  Answers are not what people are looking for, it's all right there in the show.

The show has problems, but I find it beautifully crafted and bold.  The problems, or mis-steps with regards to execution are probably due to network and demographic issues, but over all I find it to be a fantastic viewing experience on multiple levels.  It's all been discussed throughout the thread, like someone mentioned. Sure some things are out there, but I agree with JB, it's pretty damn weird within the first few episodes. John Locke smiling with the orange after the plane crash!!!! COME ON! awesome.

Anyhow, it only continues to get weirder and I love Lost for that reason as well.
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Pubrick

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1880 on: October 02, 2013, 10:43:31 PM »
+3
everyone's scrambling to find be dissatisfied with a new show
endless 'nothing is what it seems'-isms

Mel

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1881 on: October 03, 2013, 06:01:18 AM »
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The problem with Lost finale: till then show quality degraded significantly. There isn't much discussion about which season was the best: more or less you can rank seasons in chronological order. Lost just ended on low note - quite the opposite of Breaking Bad, which managed to sustain quality. I believe as a side effect of this, expectations of audience moved from general arc to finale: the very reason why so many where dissapointed with ending.

Problems with Lost started much earlier than in last season, as such I would call it "cascading failure": one issue created the next one. Lost had huge ensemble cast and was full of mystery, which we all loved at the begining. Then in season 3 whole Lost-universe exploded to the point of self parody: Paulo and Nikki anyone? Damage was done and balloon never really stopped to grow: new characters and mysteries where introduced without resolving in satisfying way the old ones. That is exactly the opposite of most cable shows including Breaking Bad, where seasons have much more encapsulated narrative.

Huge success from day zero, didn't help either: killing characters, because they weren't liked by audience and so on (pleasing mass audience). Breaking Bad managed to stay under the radar till season 5A I guess and that helped a lot.

Watching Lost again? I don't think so... even so I would probably watch it in reverse order and see how it works (saving the best for the last).
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1882 on: October 03, 2013, 08:23:56 AM »
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Giligan said that, with Breaking Bad, they were good keepers of their own history. Lost wasn't.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1883 on: October 03, 2013, 12:32:00 PM »
+1
The problem with Lost finale: till then show quality degraded significantly. There isn't much discussion about which season was the best: more or less you can rank seasons in chronological order.

There's a lot of discussion about which season was the best... even in this very thread, I think. My list would probably go like this:

1. Season 6
2. Season 3
3. Season 4
4. Season 5
5. Season 2
6. Season 1

Seasons 1 and 2 are difficult to rank. Season 2 had some of my favorite content (when the hatch and the Others were at their most mysterious), but the season felt stretched out and there was definitely filler. Season 1 was slow and a bit top-heavy with character development, but I described before how brilliant I think it is.

Breaking Bad, which managed to sustain quality.

Breaking Bad is vastly more consistent than Lost; I don't think there's any argument there. It's just a consequence of one being on network television with a radically different schedule and a ton of episodes to deliver. Lost: 121 episodes over 6 years. Breaking Bad: 62 episodes over 5 years & 8 months. Despite some subpar episodes, I think Lost maintained its arc surprisingly well.

I would probably watch it in reverse order and see how it works (saving the best for the last).

Okay, now you're crazy.
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diggler

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1884 on: October 03, 2013, 01:16:33 PM »
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I remember in the first few seasons the jungle looked way more provocative and scary, in the later seasons the lighting of it flattened out and it lost something. Rewatching the first season I noticed that the show just looked better then.
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Mel

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1885 on: October 03, 2013, 02:19:11 PM »
0
Quote
Breaking Bad is vastly more consistent than Lost; I don't think there's any argument there. It's just a consequence of one being on network television with a radically different schedule and a ton of episodes to deliver. Lost: 121 episodes over 6 years. Breaking Bad: 62 episodes over 5 years & 8 months. Despite some subpar episodes, I think Lost maintained its arc surprisingly well.

Lost is far from typical network television. Just to show that, total running time for 6 seasons of:
- Mad Men: ~60 hours
- Lost: ~85 hours
- 24: ~120 hours

Quote
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1886 on: October 03, 2013, 03:53:07 PM »
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No surprise. But I hated season 6.

I would say, and I don't know which one I prefer between season 4 and season 3:

1) Season 4
2) Season 3
3) Season 1
4) Season 2
5) Season 5
6) Season 6
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Neil

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1887 on: October 03, 2013, 04:15:26 PM »
0
Fun game. Haven't watched them in a year.  My old land lord stole the blu ray series from me during my last move. I know they're all over hulu/netflix. anyhow, from what i remember, it's

1)2
2)6
3)5
4)3
5)4
6)1
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1888 on: October 03, 2013, 04:48:39 PM »
0
Quote
Breaking Bad is vastly more consistent than Lost; I don't think there's any argument there. It's just a consequence of one being on network television with a radically different schedule and a ton of episodes to deliver. Lost: 121 episodes over 6 years. Breaking Bad: 62 episodes over 5 years & 8 months. Despite some subpar episodes, I think Lost maintained its arc surprisingly well.

Lost is far from typical network television. Just to show that, total running time for 6 seasons of:
- Mad Men: ~60 hours
- Lost: ~85 hours
- 24: ~120 hours

Alright so, you were comparing Lost to Breaking Bad, I responded by continuing that comparison, and now you're comparing Lost to 24? Okay. I certainly wasn't saying Lost is the most efficient network show ever... just saying it was less consistent than Breaking Bad because it had to deliver many more episodes in a given period of time. A brutally obvious point, but I felt like making it.

Not that it's relevant at all, but your example of 24 is bogus, since it aired over 9 years. At least that's what Wikipedia tells me. If someone would like to compare the working hours expended on each show, I'm sure that information is available from the relevant unions, but I will leave that research project to someone else. This Lost vs. 24 battle will be solved once and for all.

You responded to an argument I didn't make, and even that was wrong. Debating you is not fun.
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1889 on: October 03, 2013, 05:04:35 PM »
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Battlestar Galactic was more consistent than Lost, though. They didn't know what they were doing while they were doing it, but they invented a logic, a coherence, to the world they were creating. The show doesn't give answers at the end. But it makes sense with the show too.

Lost pretended to know its ending, to know the logic of their world, but nothing is really connected. I remember when the writers were saying: "We know the ending since the beginning!" Once again, I don't say that I expect answers for the mysteries.

It's hard to exploit your mysteries, your world, to create sense. Battlestar Galactica, in my opinion, did it. Because they never thought they knew everything since the first season.

Babylon 5 is the only show that I know where the showrunner had a plan for five seasons. Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 are two methods. But their worlds aren't voids of magical light which give you random mysteries.
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