Author Topic: Lost (spoilers)  (Read 237576 times)

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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1920 on: December 30, 2016, 12:17:52 AM »
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Here's a question that has always nagged at me a bit. Now thanks to this AV Club comment (from 2010), it makes total sense.

When MIB talks to Jack in 613, he reveals that he did appear as his father early on... because he was trying to lead him to water, and always wanted to help him, etc. However...

Quote
The episode they're talking about is White Rabbit. That's when Jack runs off to figure out why he's seeing the Ghost of Christian Shephard. MIB's explanation was "You needed water." But go back and watch White Rabbit. You'll see that whoever it is, he tried to lead Jack off a cliff. Jack nearly died, and Locke ended up saving him before Jack found the fresh water at the caves (not to mention, Christian's empty coffin).

SO. My theory is that MIB-as-Christian was trying to kill Jack so that he could assume JACK'S form early on. Remember, that's when everyone listened to Jack, before the Oceanic survivors started fragmenting, before half stayed at the beach and half went to the caves.
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Kal

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1921 on: December 30, 2016, 03:10:20 AM »
+2
Would love to think the writers had all that figured out in Season 1, but doubt it. I think MIB and even Jacob were not as baked as we would think when JJ Abrams developed Season 1. It's great that it ties everything together, but not realistic.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1922 on: December 30, 2016, 07:43:07 AM »
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I should read some interviews on this, but the confrontation between good and evil was roughly baked in. Remember all the backgammon and white vs black themes in very early Season 1?

Considering what happens in White Rabbit, I do think they had a vision for some kind of trickster/temptation figure. I doubt the details of MIB crystallized until very late, though I agree.

Still tons of impressive forethought. John even says in Season 1, "the island brought us here for a reason." The stuff about electromagnetism started very early. Claire being warned that she must raise her child. (Abandoning him turns her evil/crazy.)

John also claims to have seen the heart of the island (i.e. the glowy cave), "and it was beautiful."
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1923 on: December 30, 2016, 10:05:04 AM »
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The glowy cave is what I call The Magic Vagina. Because I'm deep.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1924 on: January 02, 2017, 12:14:17 AM »
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More on the writers planning ahead. Damon Lindelof, two years before the finale:


"Do we know the absolute end of the show? Yeah. We've had that in mind for quite some time. But can we hand you a script for the last episode of the show right now? No, because there are market fluctuations that we are unaware of at this point. Certain characters that you want to write more for sort of wear out their welcome sooner rather than later. New characters are introduced, and pop in unexpected ways. The essential nature of that last episode is more specifically about what the last three or four scenes are, and us working toward those has always remained pretty constant."

http://www.avclub.com/article/ilostis-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-14231
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1925 on: January 02, 2017, 12:15:19 PM »
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Yes. The last shot was a good idea and you can feel how it was planned. I think that a show like Battlestar Galactica was way better at making it up as they went along. Season 6 of LOST feels way longer than it should be, the scenes on the Island are...well, I don't remember most of them, except when one character just blows up, like that, and all the others characters are like: "Well, okay, whatever. Dynamite is dangerous."

But I never understood why people felt there was a lack of answers, everything essential is there, but the pacing of the last season is wrong. And I think that the flash-forward were a bad idea, it's not exactly the kind of supernatural that existed in the show. But, well, I was also disappointed by Across the Sea...

But seven years later here we are, still talking about LOST!
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1926 on: January 02, 2017, 12:54:18 PM »
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I think that the flash-forward were a bad idea, it's not exactly the kind of supernatural that existed in the show.

Personally, though, what you're talking about is exactly why I love Season 6 so much. It's so fearless and unapologetic.

When the show turns from science fiction to fantasy, that's my sweet spot. All the bonkers mystical stuff that happens in the final season absolutely feels like what the show was building towards the whole time.
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1927 on: January 02, 2017, 05:14:20 PM »
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Oh, you understood but I didn't mean the flash-forwards but the flash-sideways.

Yes, I can admit that, at least, it was a radical choice. But it felt too much out of character for me.
 
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1928 on: January 02, 2017, 06:39:51 PM »
+1
SEASON 6


601/602   LA X    10.0      
A true classic. Fraught with nostalgia, fear, and confusion. The best Lost episodes capture a complex bundle of emotions and toss you in with them. The show at this point really begins to troll us in the most beautiful way, while dropping some very clever hints. This completes the best 5-hour stretch in the entire show's run.

603   What Kate Does   8.7      
Amounts to a good stalling episode. Nothing amazing, but still quite sharp throughout. Contains Saywer's best cry.

604   The Substitute   9.4      
Smart and engaging from beginning to end. Very strong character stuff for both John and Saywer. A couple mindblowing moments, like Not-Locke's "don't tell me what I can't do!"

605   Lighthouse   10.0      
This one is just completely full of Lost goodness. On island, Hurley proves to be a surprisingly ideal mythology delivery system. Jack is at a crossroads in his hero's journey, and it's electrifying, thanks to Matthew Fox's intense performance. Crazy Claire is lots of fun and wonderfully unpredictable. Jack's flash-sideways perfectly illustrates the point of the flash-sideways, especially on rewatch. So many feelings.

606   Sundown   8.1      
A tad cliche-heavy, and Sayid's flashback is decidedly mixed. Still entertaining as an action episode.

607   Dr. Linus   8.4      
Definitely cheesy, and the directing is noticeably off (Mario Van Peebles for God knows what reason). But Ben's redemption arc, in both worlds, has real weight and is completely convincing. Elsewhere, Jack takes a leap of faith. He's basically good to go now meet Jack 3.0.

608   Recon   8.2      
Quite underwhelming overall. There are some standout scenes, though. Sawyer's cold open is great. All of Kate's content is excellent. Yet another great performance from Evangeline Lily so much emotional complexity as she grapples with Claire.

609   Ab Aeterno   10.0      
Mythology peaks again! The Jacob vs. MIB content continues to have a kind of mystique that's nearly impossible to achieve. This episode was significantly better on rewatch, because I was ready to accept Richard as a flawed human. Hurley's power here also feels a lot better the second time around.

610   The Package   9.5      
Another super sharp episode. Not a wasted minute. Perhaps Yunjin Kim's best performance.

611   Happily Ever After   10.0      
Sublime! One of the most profound and exciting episodes of Season 6. Sideways world begins to show its hand.

612   Everybody Loves Hugo   8.1      
This script could use another polish or two... or three. But the story still progresses beautifully.

613   The Last Recruit   8.9      
Things continue to converge in exciting ways. Powerful moments are abundant. A few cringey bits of subtext-as-text; otherwise, very on-point. Jack's ever-present intuition is a surprising highlight on rewatch.

614   The Candidate   9.3      
A good action episode with some standout performances and a few classic moments. Then, a really strong finish the final 5 minutes are flawless and profound.

615   Across the Sea   8.0      
This episode inspires fierce ambivalence. The origin story is a worthy one with many layers of meaning. You do feel like you're discovering "the source" of Jacob's philosophy and the show's principles, with all the countless references and echoes. However, this is essentially a tragic missed opportunity, because the execution is deeply flawed. The mysticism (despite spotty writing) basically works, but the acting simply does not. Allison Janney gives perhaps the worst performance in the history of Lost. So regrettable this actually could have been a classic.

616   What They Died For   10.0      
A firecracker of an episode. The mythology has never been more moving. Every moment spent with Jacob is pure magic. And the writing just clicks. They really pulled off an impossible task. Elsewhere, good plot momentum and lots of emotion. Fantastic performances throughout.

617/618   The End   10.0      
I love every exquisite minute of this finale with the core of my being. I cannot imagine a more perfect or powerful way to finish the series. This is not only the best episode of Lost, it's my favorite episode of television.



In order of favoriteness:


10.0   617   The End
10.0   601   LA X
10.0   611   Happily Ever After
10.0   609   Ab Aeterno
10.0   605   Lighthouse
10.0   616   What They Died For
9.5   610   The Package
9.4   604   The Substitute
9.3   614   The Candidate
8.9   613   The Last Recruit
8.7   603   What Kate Does
8.4   607   Dr. Linus
8.2   608   Recon
8.1   606   Sundown
8.1   612   Everybody Loves Hugo
8.0   615   Across the Sea
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polkablues

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1929 on: January 02, 2017, 09:55:07 PM »
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I hated Across the Sea so much that it casts a pall over my enjoyment of the rest of this season. Just a complete and utter failure, both as an individual episode and (especially) as part of the greater story. Hated hated hated it.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1930 on: January 02, 2017, 11:10:22 PM »
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It is heartbreaking. When you see how they handled very explicit parts of the mythology in "Ab Aeterno" and "What They Died For" (not to mention late Season 5), it's clear that they are capable of executing that stuff very well. The last 15 min of "What They Died For" actually kind of stunned me they wrote Jacob's dialogue with so much delicacy and care, conveying some really bizarre concepts with subtlety and grace. And the performance is so perfect.

By contrast, "Across the Sea" sometimes feels like you're just watching a couple of dumb guys running around.

Maybe the episode was designed to confront us with a meta mystery: How is it possible that Lindelof & Cuse wrote it?

Even more confusing: It was directed by Tucker Gates. What else did he direct? "Confidence Man," one of my favorites from Season 1. "I Do," one of the very best episodes of Lost, notable for its stunning performances, intense authentic emotion, striking visuals, and really sharp production value. He directed "Ab Aeterno," which was great in exactly the ways "Across the Sea" was not.

I can only imagine that they were on some kind of ridiculous time crunch or had a serious production crisis.

This time around, I was willing to look for what was good in the episode. And I didn't hate it. Sure, I hated moments of it (passionately). I hated Allison Janney. And the whole thing still saddens me. But you can see that the structure is there (and in some cases the content, too) for something potentially great. It's probably best watched with a wiki page open, because the exciting parts are all the cross-references. And the donkey wheel is pretty good.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1931 on: January 07, 2017, 10:24:11 PM »
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Currently going through and deciding what my absolute favorite episodes are. Anyone want to share some of theirs?

Related side note. I'm struck by how powerfully the show shines for its really big episodes mostly season finales and premieres. The worst episodes are ones where they clearly didn't have time to even properly polish the script. I think if Lost had been given a premium cable production schedule, people would be talking about it like they talk about Breaking Bad.
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Drenk

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1932 on: January 07, 2017, 11:52:01 PM »
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The Constant is an amazing moment of television and my favorite episode of LOST. I think Season 4 is my favorite, but I haven't re-watched them since a long time...
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1933 on: January 08, 2017, 02:35:00 AM »
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One of my absolute favorites is "I Do" (306), which was Season 3's mid-season finale, and the height of the captive story.

I'll have more to say about it later, but I guess I've already said this:

"I Do," one of the very best episodes of Lost, notable for its stunning performances, intense authentic emotion, striking visuals, and really sharp production value.
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polkablues

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Re: Lost (spoilers)
« Reply #1934 on: January 09, 2017, 12:27:09 AM »
+1
"The Constant," for sure, "Through the Looking Glass," and "Man of Science, Man of Faith." The more I look back on the series, the more I realize that Desmond's story is the one I care about the most.
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