Author Topic: Serial (Podcast)  (Read 4854 times)

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Tictacbk

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Serial (Podcast)
« on: November 05, 2014, 10:24:52 PM »
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Anyone else hooked on Serial?  Wondering if it warrants its own thread.

If you're curious, Serial is from the producers of This American Life, but it's one story told over multiple episodes.  Without getting too much into the story, it's about a murder case involving high school kids in Baltimore.  It's 6 episodes in (but will be 7 by tomorrow), and in my opinion it's quite good.

http://serialpodcast.org/

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2014, 11:19:51 PM »
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Yeah, I've been listening to Serial and Slate's Spoiler Special podcasts on Serial.

It's one of 3 or 4 podcasts I have to listen to immediately when it comes out. Great stuff.

SPOILERS

Any opinions on his guilt or innocence? I currently lean toward guilty. I think Adnan probably did it and that Jay is way more involved than he's admitting. But Adnan can't say that, because he'd be implicating himself, so Jay is free to characterize his involvement as he likes.

I paid close attention to the passages about motive. And it seems likely to me that Adnan is in fact massively downplaying his reaction to the breakup. You can tell he's downplaying it a little too much, as if he just shrugged off the breakup, and the incident at the dance, and basically everything. Right.

I could be completely wrong, but that's where I am so far.
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ębrad

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 11:56:48 AM »
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GAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH episode 7 was awesome. This show is my favorite thing right now.


SPOILERS


- Like Sarah (and most people it seems) I flip flop between guilty or not guilty with each episode. Right now I'm on team Adnan. I fully expect the pendulum to swing back to guilty next week.
- Diedra is a fascinating new addition to the show. I love her vibe and she made some great counter-points. Many assume Adnan not having an alibi or answer for every question means he must be hiding something, but wouldn't a person seem more guilty if they had a clear answer for every little moment on that day?
- Diedra's doubt of Adnan being this sociopathic mastermind was illuminating.
- Jay is the key to this case. He definitely is more complicit in this crime than he lets on. I have no idea what his motive is, but I also believe there is a third guilty party we don't know about yet.
- One question I want Sarah to ask Adnan straight up - "Who do YOU think did it?" If he's not guilty and Jay is, there's no way Adnan doesn't have at least some opinion as to what exactly happened that day.



Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2014, 12:12:24 PM »
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SPOILERS

Yes, great episode, and I am still on the fence. I should resist the urge to put myself in one camp or the other. It's so tempting, though. Reaching for conclusions is the only way to relieve the tension and suspense.

I don't think Adnan is a mastermind, but I do think it's possible that he's sociopathic. Something has always felt off about him. That could mean nothing, of course.

I always thought the lack of sexual assault evidence was a mark against Adnan. After all, were it a random killer, wouldn't the chances of sexual assault be pretty high? But now finding out how lacking that part of the investigation was (they didn't find sperm, but they neglected DNA testing etc.), that seems like a mark in Adnan's favor. Also, when Diedra mentioned the possibility of a killer who murdered Asian women that year, I was like oh right, that happens, and this is Baltimore.

But doesn't Jay's involvement rule out the possibility of a random killer? I totally agree that Jay is the key, and I'm excited that the next episode will focus on him. I think it's possible that Adnan was 20% involved and Jay was 80% involved. Maybe Adnan is Martin Freeman in Fargo.
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ębrad

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 12:26:58 PM »
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You make a good point. It's hard to imagine any scenario where Adnan is not at least tangentially involved.

What makes Adnan seem iffy to me is how dismissive and nonchalant he is in regards to Jay. If Adnan is innocent, that means Jay is lying and setting him up, which means Adnan should be fuming with anger towards Jay, and should have spent the last 15 years trying to figure out how, when, and why Jay did it and who else might be involved? Maybe Sarah just hasn't revealed that portion of her talk with Adnan yet, but Adnan must have some Jay theories he should bring forward.


Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 02:05:56 PM »
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Yes, exactly. I've been thinking the same thing. Instead, Adnan projects this aloof befuddlement about Jay, and it kind of rings false.

I do agree with the Innocence Project people that there was seemingly not enough evidence to convict Adnan. "Mountains of reasonable doubt," as one of them said. Of course that's a different question than "what is the truth?"
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ębrad

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2014, 02:41:31 PM »
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A reddit commenter (yeah I went there) made the following point:

Diedra's team talked about red fibers found in Hae's hair.
Jay says Adnan was wearing red gloves in the phone booth.


Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2014, 05:44:19 PM »
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Interesting. I've read a little bit on Reddit but am resisting going down that rabbit hole. I sort of don't want to spoil myself yet in case SK makes similar revelations.

One thing's clear. The original investigators on the scene were practically useless, and according to Diedra, that's common. Yikes.
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Tictacbk

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 12:51:23 AM »
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I'm also trying to avoid any spoilers that may or may not be on the internet, so this is pretty much the only place I'll be reading about it.  But MAN what an episode.  Everything is so well laid out in this podcast.  If you had asked me yesterday, I would've said "Oh yeah, I definitely think he did it."  But today I'm thinking he didn't.  Such a perfectly timed episode, and I never could've predicted the introduction Dierdra and her team.  Solid storytelling, Serial.  Well done.

It was interesting to hear Dierdra's team confirm or dispel every back and forth thought I've had.  Like "oh yeah, it WOULD be crazy if he was actually a sociopath."  I actually think this episode provided the perfect ending, and the one I've been thinking about for a few episodes now: that it will become clear that Adnan shouldn't be in jail, but there won't be enough evidence to get him out.  Now, when I say "perfect ending" I mean from a storytelling stand point.  What's crazy is that these are real people living in the real world, so that "perfect ending" kinda sucks.  I don't even know what I'm hoping for any more.  A confession?  A The Killing season 1 scenario? Who knows, but I'm in, whatever it is.

I really hope she's been holding back a Jay interview until next week.

ębrad

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 01:15:09 PM »
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Totally agree. Such a solid episode. I don't understand why many are saying it was frustrating. Slate is doing a recap podcast (yes, a podcast about a podcast) and they equated it to a bottle episode. I found Diedra and her team so fascinating. And Sarah's final line about Jay was a holy shit moment of Breaking Bad levels for me. Who knew a podcast could do that.

I seriously doubt Jay would ever interview with Sarah though. No lawyer would ever let him do that. What does he have to get out of it?


Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 02:57:42 PM »
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I'm also starting to wonder what she can say legally. Eventually her speculation must become a little more solid. At what point does it cross the line into slander or defamation?

For example, can she suggest that the detectives were colluding with Jay to make a stronger case against Adnan, helping Jay refine his story etc. instead of interrogating him? Even though that might be the case? (Her reflexive defense of the detectives seems wrong.)

They brought this up in the Slate podcast too, but there are some things Sarah skips past a little too quickly, like the detective issue, and the "kill" note, and a couple other clues. Is she making mistakes or saving revelations for later?
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ębrad

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 11:48:16 PM »
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So here's what this new episode teaches us:

1. Either Jay or Adnan is a brilliant pathological liar.
2. My opinions are so malleable episode to episode and I'm basically the most gullible person ever, which I think is the point of the series.   

Also, this from an attorney on reddit:

Adnan did not testify at his trial???????

That is an absolute game changer for me. And I write this as a criminal defense attorney who is intimately familiar with the 5th Amendment.

I think the 5th Amendment is great. I think the burden of proving a crime should be entirely on the government, and that a defendant should not have to testify, and that a juror can make no adverse inference from a failure to testify.

But.

Jurors are human beings, and they want to hear from the defendant. And if the defendant does not testify, that is an obstacle for the defense. I have successfully defended people who did not testify. This happens mainly when clients tell me they did it, but want to go to trial anyway. I can't put them on the stand where they will lie, so I attack the government's case from the perspective of confusion and procedural mistakes.

But.

If a client was charged with murder, and they were adamant to me that they did not do it, and had no idea who did? I would absolutely put them on the stand. I would insist on it. Let the jury hear the passion and resolution in their voices. A star athlete and student like Adnan with no priors? If I had represented him, he would have testified. The chances of acquittal go up dramatically when the defendant testifies and proclaims his absolute innocence. I have had particular success in getting charges dismissed at the preliminary hearing using this method.

If Adnan told me he did it, then I would have proceeded exactly like his attorney did- go after Jay and the police process of investigation.

Clearly, SK has planned these episodes to arc from belief in Adnan's innocence to thinking he was involved with Jay and the crime to, I assume, proof that Adnan did it- maybe the last episode will be a sullen meeting with the UVA team.

Again, I am utterly flabbergasted that someone like Adnan who is adamant about his complete innocence did not testify at his own trial.


Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 10:28:38 AM »
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Hmm. What if Adnan admitted his guilt to his attorney? SK insisted that she was well-respected and successful.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 12:58:52 PM »
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I'm not so sure about the defense lawyer's competence or skill, actually. She was so screechy. That must have been hard to listen to as a juror. And apparently she had something to do with the mistrial.
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ębrad

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Re: Serial (Podcast)
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 01:52:00 PM »
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She was so grating! No wonder Adnan lost the case.

Where is your head at right now? I feel manipulated to hell and back and I'm loving it. This episode certainly humanized Jay to a degree. I still think he's more involved than he lets on as he's proven himself to be a capable liar based on accounts from his friends. We need more from Adnan now. If Jay is guilty, Adnan has to have an idea what Jay's motive was.

 

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