Author Topic: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!  (Read 30142 times)

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Pozer

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2014, 05:30:55 PM »
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There's a scene at the end of "Inherent Vice" between Doc and Bigfoot that recalls a similar moment at the end of "The Master": two men in opposition coming to an understanding that they must remain opposed. It's emotional but in a way that isn't obvious. What are you trying to say in those sequences?
It was just an effort to make sure that made it in the translation from the book to the movie. That's where it starts. They're trying to apologize to each other for how they treated each other the night before, and Doc and Bigfoot begin to talk at the same time. It struck me so sweetly in the book. It was like Tom and Jerry stopping to apologize to each other about their behavior. What I really like about that scene, and what ended up happening when we got there, is that for as emotional as Doc is throughout the movie, you never see him break down and cry. But in truth, the most emotional he gets is bawling his eyes out while watching Bigfoot have this meltdown in front of him. Doc says that beautiful line, which is from the book: "Are you okay brother?" Bigfoot rejects it: "I'm not your brother." Doc says: "But you sure could use a keeper. Doc has become unglued along with Bigfoot. It's just stuff in the book that I shuffled around and made into one scene.

this is great. and the scene in the movie will definitely go down as one of the all-time classic
PTA standard moments.

His last decade movies, as modge has pointed out, are not capable of calling for an immediate scrutinize. the result will be a pounding out of what disappointed, a la max from fearless (dont get mee wrong my head is swimming around in some of the same gravy after watch number one, dialogue overload in certain scenes included). I gotta see it more. and more. like immediately, not like the same day immediately, more like tomorrow or the day next or in the weeks to come immediately. cant believe you saw this thing three times in a row, moadge

Joaquin was something else, happier to see him inhale life into Doc over Rdj who's shtick we'd have seen coming. The rapport, the spark between him and josh b was dynamite, more and more of their exchanges were needed. I'll shut up for now. wait, Dr.Rudy, a bit short on Short wasnt it, could've used one final 'long way down (one more thing)' type scene with him. shutting up now. wait though, (one more thing), completely disagree on this being Kathrine Waterson's movie, she's so great, she's the light, the comedown, the no reason to get out of bed in the morning, but this is Joaquin's escapade and cant wait to follow him through the haze another time. like immediately today.

second favorite thing said of the film, which happens to also be presented by wilder

This should be on the poster:

he’s on the fucking case; he doesn't know what the case is, but he’s fucking on it
   

Cloudy

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2014, 03:09:07 PM »
+1
among other things walking out of the theater...all that was on my mind: Joaquin is a walking angel on earth as Doc

Wilder, thank you-thankyouthankyou for sharing that, Max, your honesty was great to read (just imagining you sorting things out through the cold streets was relatable to my first Master viewing)

ps......I recommend seeing this with your ex-old lady...what a fucking joy

porgy

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2014, 04:16:55 PM »
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yeah, I think there's one sequence in particular that will make anyone of either gender want to get back together with their ex.  or maybe I'm just mushy hearted and vulnerable.

Drenk

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2014, 12:10:55 PM »
+1
I'm so many people.

modage

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2014, 12:47:25 PM »
+5
This took a long time. Let me know what you guys think and please share!
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Ghostboy

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2014, 08:09:06 PM »
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It makes me want to read the book again! (after seeing the movie last night).

max from fearless

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2014, 07:56:29 AM »
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Modage - great piece, thanks for that. It really makes me want to see the film again and read the book again.

jenkins

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2014, 08:36:10 PM »
+7
it's a bit so simple it can be overwhelming. right. life, right?

right. a story spun into a detective tale seen through the prism of the 60s, a time during which humans were indeed a disparate collection of people on a mission to solve the case, and this is 1970 and post-manson so it's all quite questionable

the case is life, doc is asked to solve it, except what exactly the case means seems like an amorphous threat that consistently swells and becomes reevaluated owing to outside sources, and the figurehead of the crime is a company that might not even exist

i do think it's simple overall, but when looked upon by microscopes and fandom it looks too massive. has not pta grandslammed, by making a movie about larry doc in which every audience member across the board sounds like doc themselves, when they describe the movie? when a discussion begins about how pta has begun to externalize the characters into their narratives, and the discussion is joined by memories of what a detective case tends to be, and it tends to be a case that subterraneously explores the darkness of humans, doesn’t the answer come to itself: this is a movie in which the essential philosophy of a detective story has been externalized

pta's a sonofabitch because i just think it's a bit of a personal problem for a person to say he makes movies wrong. this is a hard movie, innit, isn't that what people say? so fuck pta for the same reason as always, for making the hard look easy. its lyrics sang to me today, here on christmas eve, when i saw it in the dome with about twenty other people. clear today from my memory of the book, my memory of having seen the movie, and in a theater so quiet and unpeopled that i felt like there was nothing between me and the movie at all

i haven't consumed marketing materials nearly as much as others here but, i tell ya, i really think they're trying their best to explain the movie through marketing. i do remember the first screencap there was, and i thought of it tonight while watching the movie:



the proof is in the pudding. doc looking at bigfoot like that, there you go, that's the cosmic energy of the movie. that explains: this is a movie about the forces of personalities colliding against each other, with separate and/or similar motives and all that. i also think pta plucked a great line from the first chapter for the first scene of the movie "Back when, she could go weeks without anything more complicated than a pout. Now she was laying some heavy combination of face ingredients on him that he couldn't read at all."

the emotional tempo was transparent to me today. i regret not saying immediately that joaquin phoenix delivers an impressive performance. i think he's a got a bit of a constant struggle in him, and a bit of a constant fight, and that is of course what doc needed. not more of either and plenty of both. i wouldn't say there's a bad performance anywhere in the movie. plus, the music, since today i was following the emotions, the music is an impressive guide to the emotions of the movie, absolutely

I've got a question for the majorspoiler squad. Is there a scene in this akin to the frogs in Maggie, the ending to twbb, the processing scene in The Master? I don't mean in terms of content but similar in a "holy fuck" woah nowthatssomething" kinda way.

said it before and i'll say it again: the sex scene with shasta. i believe that's the same kinda gift of a scene, because i think it pulls back from the story, and pushes in on the two central characters, and it's a bit like they meet in an empty field and the wind blows on them, kinda thing. the music, the pace of the scene, its intro, its outro. you could pluck out that one scene and have a short with all the necessary and digestible components of a human relationship
"I must whisper it to you—not because Im ashamed but because it is so Dear to me that I must keep it close to me by whispering—"

Korova

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #68 on: December 25, 2014, 04:11:45 AM »
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Thank you for this wonderful review. Now I want to watch it even more. And I can't.
i also think pta plucked a great line from the first chapter for the first scene of the movie "Back when, she could go weeks without anything more complicated than a pout. Now she was laying some heavy combination of face ingredients on him that he couldn't read at all."
About that first scene: They put a clip up of the beginning of that and already that had a very interesting thing in it. When Shasta is telling Doc about making it look like a secret rendezvous, she has this wonderful face expression where you see it's loaded with emotion for her. In the book, Doc has several thoughts about that, but not her. I guess that's Katherine Waterston's work.
After reading that first conversation again, I have to say that first of all Pynchon really has a knack for beginnings, then there's this phrase's: "Come to think of it, there's never been this much sorrow in her voice either."
(also, now I finally got that bit about the "new package")

jenkins

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2014, 02:26:42 PM »
+1
had such a strong emotional memory about the movie iv, while walking across los angeles sidewalks and listening to neil young. listening to journey through the past and remembering how much i cherished that sequence, of doc and shasta running in the rain across the sidewalks, and they collapse together by the store entrance, a flashback in the movie that's told as a funny story best remembered by both of them, how out of all the things possible, they most remember the story ignited by the oujia board that worked itself upon doc's hands

did i exaggerate my memory of that? feeling emotional tbh. in my real life and all that, the feelings i treasure and wanna see on the screen, also tend to involve running in the rain with a girl i care about. the real kind of romantic run in the rain. feels like a movie. i'm imagining neil young in the background and...

there you go. can't even pretend for a moment that i don't like this pta guy, tell ya what
"I must whisper it to you—not because Im ashamed but because it is so Dear to me that I must keep it close to me by whispering—"

Cloudy

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2014, 02:05:01 AM »
+3
the fading in and out of that light on his eye in the foggy freeway caravan, under-water just them two...whispers, these whispers within fog back and forth like jazz riffing into the unknown and then to a question and then to the known and then back again...the sounds of rough, rubbing couches, and wetness while shasta's ass is hazed in view, the camera barely moving, just un-knowingly racking focus- so simple and lightweight, yet so god damn bolted into the ground... her face completely orange and so burning, crying, her foot creeping up docs leg at the complete bottom left of the fucking tall and un-judging frame, feeling your own cock fucking tingle, while the word "invisible" repeats over and over...screaming planes at the moment of a happy ending and humid artificial waterfalls revealing swastikas/rehab clinics with double-triple meanings...moods moving without a true steering wheel but haunting and heading forward and backward toward their natural destination...the blues...the "blues"...what's gonna nag you in the middle of the night?...lonely, lonely nights doomed while the sun sets leading to a call for your FBI lover with a dirty-footed hard-on...the blue-drenched empty lot rain leading to the most burning neon red glowing shelter, while knowing "she's walking out the door"...the way no scene is truly "a set-piece" (other than that one), but one continually moving...thing?...how did this happen? how is this that good? how does Mickey Wolfman make me cry? And joaquin in that low position leave me absolutely mystified? how am I supposed to feel? scenes i laughed my fucking tearing eyes out first viewing I was absolutely still this time... sometimes you don't even know if you're feeling something that was intentional or real or not, or whether your even watching a movie or not, and then you realize doc is also feeling that exact same feeling and then Jade just continues on about spotted dicks while the blues and the camera continue heading in one direction never stopping....ugh, man.

there is so much to talk about, especially about how the book and the movie and The Master jam session together. how can we begin to do this? the ending shot is somewhere to start....

hkzach

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2014, 05:25:28 AM »
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I finally saw it earlier, and I loved it.  After months of absorbing various promotional material, reading other people's reviews, etc., it was great to finally see the film in full form.   Reading the book beforehand probably helped greatly, but overall it was not as "incoherent" or confusing as I expected based on the large amount of negative reviews I have read attacking the incomprehensible nature of the plot, although it was still quite murky in quite a few areas.  Which is what I loved about the film more than anything.  The atmosphere was incredible, the hazy vibe of the 70s, and the paranoia Doc feels at every moment was really well done.  PTA definitely succeeded in making the viewer feel like they were experiencing a far-out trip.

This is one of those films you just have the urge to watch again immediately after exiting the movie theater.  The whole film is just a swirl in my mind right now, so many strings of characters and just a motion of vignettes spiralled together, I want to watch it again and fully connect all the dots.  I loved the shots of Doc's notebook, they were fucking hilarious - "something spanish," "paranoia."  And also the shot of him drawing all the lines between every character on a whiteboard, really symbolizing how intricate the plot is.  Everything is connected, which kinda reminds me of the John Muir quote, "Tug on anything at all and you'll find it connected to everything else in the universe."  Inherent Vice is essentially that quote put into a detective noir form. 

The performances were fantastic, of course.  Doc's mumbling and paranoid performance was great, and I thought the film really encapsulated the endearing quality he possesses, how he truly cares for those he tries to solve cases for.  Bigfoot was fantastic too.  I liked how much of his character was revealed just based off of his haircut.  His flat top, straight as hell, oozing his right-wing mentality, "twinkle in his eye that says civil-rights violations..."  Their interactions were very well done, the scene towards the end when Bigfoot eats his weed and Doc sheds a tear, perfectly represents their relationship.  Got a kick out of it too.

My favorite moments... when Doc looks out of window through his binoculars, and right after Shasta looks out the opposite way.  Looking into the distance for lost love, one of many moments filled to the brim with melancholy.  And when Doc, accompanied by Jade, meets Coy in the mysterious room covered with hazy fog, talking in low whispers, paranoid - "...beware the Golden Fang..."  And the flashback of Doc running in the rain with Shasta, of course, set to Journey in the Past.  Just a magical, cinematic scene.  Nostalgic and sentimental, escaping the realities of the new reality, the new decade of the 70s, old vs new, hippie vs. square.  Every scene with Rudy Blatnoyd in it...still not enough though.  And lastly, when Doc takes Coy back to his family, with Amethyst playing in the background.  Such a beautiful scene that was just emotionally heightened by the music.  What were your favorite scenes? 

Overall, it completely fulfilled my expectations, and I can't wait to watch it again!

Drenk

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2014, 03:16:15 PM »
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Beautifully written review from a Pynchon fan:

http://lettersfromyonder.com/2014/12/28/inherent-vice-an-experience/

He's saying something I haven't read before, he says the movie rhythm is too fast. And I didn't copy-paste because I want you to click.
I'm so many people.

jenkins

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2014, 05:21:06 PM »
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i took the clickbait and here's the referenced passage:

Quote
As I sat in the theater, taking in the visuals and the groove, I was struck with the simple fact that, it’s too fast. The medium of film isn’t one built for memory. The paranoiac intricacies of Pynchon’s plot demand a reader’s time, a word-by-word intake that engraves on the brain. When we approach an aside mention in the novel that may connect to another small event of personage that came before, we perk up and say wait a minute… But in the film it is too fast. We fling willy-nilly from scene to scene without much pause. Not to say that the effect isn’t in the film. It’s done well with the Golden Fang connections, but this is usually due to Doc’s own recognition of the connections. One of the joys of a Pynchon novel is the connections the characters don’t see. These, I think, are hard to pick up on in the film. Instead we feel over-saturated, soaked in plot and names and colors.

Yet, this may not necessarily be a weakness. Pynchon is known for saturation, and perhaps Anderson wanted to reflect that. However, I think it falls flat. Even with a running time of 2 and a half hours, there still isn’t room for the viewer to chill out and tune in, as Doc would have it. Instead we feel, to quote Gravity’s Rainbow once more, like we are “riding across the country in a bus driven by a maniac bent on suicide.”

There is an achievement here though. When my friends and I left the theater feeling as if we’d been knocked over the head, I had one feeling: I need to see it again. And this is exactly like a Pynchon novel.When you turn the last page, you feel you must go back to the front and begin again. There’s something you missed, something which graced the pages that held you, but at the same time you overlooked, some treasured “beach” under the paving stones you failed to recognize. Anderson’s movie leaves you with the same gut-feeling. You want to tell the projectionist to put it up again so you can have another go at it. You think that if you watch it once more there will be something different. Waiting, as the novel’s closing states:

“For the fog to burn away, and for something else this time, somehow, to be there instead.”

If this is not the measure of a good film or a good novel, I don’t know what is. After all, if you finish watching or reading and all you want to do is watch and read again, what more can the creator ask for?
If nothing, it sure sells tickets.

yeah at first he's just saying he has memory problems associated with the movie, then he realizes he's being a baby and he should see it again. it's totally true i think, and i'd like to begin to stand by the statement that the movie is enjoyable on a first pass and people worry about themselves too much. you don't gotta get it, you can feel it. i assure you it's true. i saw the movie in absolute idgaf mode and the payoff was flawless
"I must whisper it to you—not because Im ashamed but because it is so Dear to me that I must keep it close to me by whispering—"

putneyswipe

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Re: Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2014, 07:28:00 PM »
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semi-spoilers

 not sure if this has been posted yet: great article on the locations in IV

http://www.laweekly.com/publicspectacle/2014/12/10/inherent-vices-la-locations-the-ultimate-guide

EDIT:

also no idea how I found this, some random behind-the-scenes b-roll from the ouija shasta flashback scene


 

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