Author Topic: Fargo (TV series)  (Read 17086 times)

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03

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2014, 07:27:03 AM »
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this show is the opposite of a time waster.
when more people than just me have seen the last episode, i'll post more. yall need to be on this insanely genius shit

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 01:01:14 PM »
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SPOILERS

03, I completely agree about the title card. I played that back like three times... it's masterful what they do with the music and sound there. These are the little things that make this stuff for me.

Lester has certainly become a compelling character. The moment that made him for me was actually last week, when he was in his brother's gun safe and stopped when he saw the picture of his brother's family. Of course we're so used to the cliche that we expect it to tug at his heartstrings; instead his reaction was oh, how delightful, I can destroy them too! I'd like to see what the show does in its remaining episodes comparing Lester's evil to Malvo's evil.

The office massacre sequence was virtuosic. Loved it. Curious about agents Key and Peele though. Did Malvo execute some kind of time jump (which is honestly possible at this point), or did the agents actually sit by while they heard the gunfire? Are they incompetent, or covering something up, or maybe just non-confrontational?

I should have mentioned this before, but I think Keith Carradine is nailing the Bemidji accent, and probably a certain Minnesotan archetype too. He knows what he's doing.

Although I never want to see Martin Freeman having sex ever again, that scene was quite powerful.

Theory time. I'd like to see the Rabbi brought back into the fold, because something tells me Malvo represents something from Jewish myth, like some kind of demon or trickster god.
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Mel

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2014, 06:38:24 PM »
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Spoilers

First of all, I had a huge deja vu sensation, when watching Thornton in the first episode. There was something specific about mannerisms of a character that was very familiar. The best connection I got so far is Ben Kingsley in "Sexy Beast". It did wear off later on. Great performance from Bob.

First things I didn't like. Homages to the film version of "Fargo" are a bit tiring. Problem is that the rest is so good, that the scene copying gimmick is unnecessary. I feel that series would be better off doing own thing.

The second thing is a cinematography of some scenes. Night or dark scenes look very average. "Justified" got good at it and I yet have to see something as good as "Shadow Line". Same applies to whiteout scene - the shootout was great in itself, but that snow... I know that it is tricky to do well, but it screamed CGI. I can accept it for two reasons: TV limitations and the realm in which series takes place.

Speaking of which, I don't have problem with cartoonish characters (drug dealer etc). For lack of a better comparison, Minnesota in the series is something like what Gotham City is to New York. Some events have supernatural properties, mysticism was mixed in also. Some other influences are visible like "Twin Peaks", which is complement.

So far "Fargo" the series is far better than I expected. It managed to crawl out of a trap - which would be making a direct remake, while stretching the story. In a way it feels like a good British criminal series, where story doesn't unroll only forward by aiding new characters, but circles around (going back to some arcs) and expands like a bubble. Does that makes sense?

As weird as it sounds my favorite arc is the thing between Molly and Grimly. In series full of antagonists, it is good to have a positive anchor. I'm waiting for clash between Lester and Malvo, since Lorne will figure out sooner than later, who shared the information about his location.

What do you make out of Lester? It is easy to compare it to "Breaking Bad", but morality in show is completely different. In BB actions have consequences, in "Fargo" there are no saints in the animal kingdom (so far). Lester doesn't seem to struggle with his choices, he is corrupted almost by flipping a switch.

I'm not sure if Malvo is an supernatural entity. There is a lot of weirdness going on, but do we need a devil to do the evil? "It is all in human nature" is a bleaker and scarier answer in my opinion. Still I wouldn't be surprised by "Barton Fink" version, since Malvo-Lester relationship is somehow similar.
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Drenk

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2014, 06:58:03 PM »
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I just want to say that I've watched the pilot. It was great. Great is an overused word so let me repeat myself. It was great. Like really great. It had a calm rhythm which never felt cold. I enjoy the movie Fargo, but it's frozen. The variations here give a better story? Maybe?

To talk about Breaking Bad isn't wrong or an hollow analogy. The episode wasn't scared to have long scenes. To create tension with time. The violence can be horrifying or goofy.

Oh, and Rust Cohle is the Yellow King in Fargo, if you understand what I mean.

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03

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2014, 07:08:02 PM »
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i don't understand but i want to. do you mean that lorne malvo is the yellow king?
great reviews both mel and jeremy. glad you guys are getting on board, because i'm pretty obsessed. i'm going to post about episode seven a little later on after my billionth rewatch

Drenk

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2014, 07:17:23 PM »
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SPOILERS

Yes, he has a lot of gravity when he's doing an apocalyptic monologue (the one he give to the cop that he doesn't kill) and he's the fucking devil. He's peacefully watching the world burn.
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Drenk

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2014, 07:58:00 AM »
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SPOILERS EPISODE 2

Why Lester doesn't say to the police that Sam Hess hit him in the face and that he talked about him to someone at the hospital? It could happen. It's nothing. The man decided alone to kill Sam Hess. Maybe he doesn't remember correctly his face. Maybe they never find Lorne. There is a risk but his silence is suspicious.
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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2014, 03:01:48 PM »
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spoilers episode 7:

i hope you guys aren't getting tired of my bullet point reviews, because i'm not as eloquent as yall.

- as jb mentioned, i think i had an orgasm when i saw the opening the first time. chaz saying 'blumpkin' on tv? haha. gordo's face and reaction when the gun drops "..uh...". and then lester in the interrogation room? holy jesus. was that not directly inspired by walter whites confession tape? and then i literally stood up in my chair for boom...boom.... LESTER! LESTERR! and then silence LESTEEEERR and black. gave me fucking butterflies man.

- alison tolman is a brilliant actress. her face, her voice, her mood in the all the hospital scenes, she's flawless and gentle. and we're all glad she's not dead, even though apparently everyone except me assumed that she was alive. i had no idea.

- was malvo's boss, the guy from rundle realty sitting at the chinese joint table with everyone else in fargo in the last episode? hmm

- office massacre was truly masterful. i have the same questions as jb about the agents not hearing the gunfire. but i think this relates to the other point of malvo being borderline supernatural. he kidnaps people on camera, he carries huge guns in public, he doesn't even mind putting his real name down on a hotel registry, and takes the wardens glasses without him even knowing. so i don't think it's a stretch that he's guided by some sort of dark force.

Mel

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2014, 05:45:07 PM »
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Spoilers

i hope you guys aren't getting tired of my bullet point reviews, because i'm not as eloquent as yall.

Not at all.

- was malvo's boss, the guy from rundle realty sitting at the chinese joint table with everyone else in fargo in the last episode? hmm

I don't think so - some bold heads there, but I didn't spot him.

but i think this relates to the other point of malvo being borderline supernatural. he kidnaps people on camera, he carries huge guns in public, he doesn't even mind putting his real name down on a hotel registry, and takes the wardens glasses without him even knowing. so i don't think it's a stretch that he's guided by some sort of dark force.

He seems similar to Anton in "No Country for Old Men". On one hand he can be hurt - a bashed head or a self inflicted knife wound, on the other he seems able to vanish and do other weird stuff. I'm not sure if he is supernatural, but he likes to be perceived as such: playing a god by recreating plagues for Stavros. There is no coin tossing, but the chance plays a big role in series: accidental meeting with Lester, a bag of cash found by Stavros etc. It can be argued that Lester did sign a contract with the devil in that meeting, but that is side note.

By the way, "Fargo" fits basic cable pretty well - lack of swearing enriches a world, not the other way.
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Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2014, 06:21:13 PM »
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SPOILERS

Not that it matters exactly, but I don't think Malvo needs to be literally supernatural. He just seems to be representative of a particular force of evil.

Why Lester doesn't say to the police that Sam Hess hit him in the face and that he talked about him to someone at the hospital? It could happen. It's nothing. The man decided alone to kill Sam Hess.

It's severely unlikely that a motiveless stranger would volunteer to kill someone. Police would never believe it.
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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2014, 06:35:33 PM »
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SPOILERS* by default kind of at this point:

that's exactly what i meant, jeremy. he's a borderline entity similar to anton. he's like a regular guy who learned to take evil and use it to his advantage and became accustomed to it through his years. now he's a seasoned human demon. he's seen everything and he's incredibly intelligent and knowledgable to the point where he seems to know exactly what's going to happen next, but STILL human.  another item to add to his weird luck: i just noticed that in the office massacre you hear 'freeze shitbird! click click aw shit!' how in the fuck did his gun just happen to jam?!!? because malvo.

Jeremy Blackman

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2014, 06:54:12 PM »
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another item to add to his weird luck: i just noticed that in the office massacre you hear 'freeze shitbird! click click aw shit!' how in the fuck did his gun just happen to jam?!!? because malvo.

Good call. I initially rolled my eyes at that, but it might be a tip off.
"Hunger is the purest sin"

Alexandro

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2014, 12:14:11 PM »
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those last two episodes were really something, the tone is getting really dark and depressing, but thankfully funny too.
that initial sequence with the fishes made me laugh out loud, that whole episode was just brilliant, even though I had small problems with the plausibility of everything that happened, the payoffs were strong enough to let it slide.

martin freeman the standout at this point. that awesome moment when he decides he can be even more evil and his satisfaction with all of that is conveyed purely with facial expressions and looks. really smart, effective and precise performance.

Mel

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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2014, 08:09:42 AM »
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Spoilers 1x08

"One year later" - that was huge surprise. We had some flashbacks with Stavros, but I didn't expect a time jump so late in the season.

Lots of matching cuts, some nice transitions. Not sure if it is enough for me to like this episode. Very disjointed episode (arc wise), maybe weakest so far in the series.
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Re: Fargo (TV series)
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2014, 03:02:06 PM »
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MILD SPOILERS
-
i wasn't too disappointed but i can definitely see how others would be.
overall a good episode, but a little too much talking, too much molly and gus and not enough malvo. barely any actually.
the time jump was definitely distracting but it makes me excited. this is a set up for a perfect 'you may think you're done with the past' kind of scenario, lester is so happy thinking that he's out of the woods completely. i don't think show can end with anything other than complete chaos and disaster.
END spoilers
-


but i made this post for a different reason. i have recently been studying the cleverness of the episode titles.
they are all named after classic paradoxical parables. some of you may know all of them, most of you probaly know some of them.

what i would like from you guys is some discussion and dissection of this idea, and how they correlate to the shows content. i've laid them out plainly for ease.

The Crocodiles Dillemma:
The premise states that a crocodile, who has stolen a child, promises the father that his son will be returned if and only if he can correctly predict whether or not the crocodile will return the child. The transaction is logically smooth (but unpredictable) if the father guesses that the child will be returned, but a dilemma arises for the crocodile if he guesses that the child will not be returned. In the case that the crocodile decides to keep the child, he violates his terms: the father's prediction has been validated, and the child should be returned. However, in the case that the crocodile decides to give back the child, he still violates his terms, even if this decision is based on the previous result: the father's prediction has been falsified, and the child should not be returned. The question of what the crocodile should do is therefore paradoxical, and there is no justifiable solution.
--
The Rooster Prince:
In this story, a prince goes insane and believes that he is a rooster (or turkey.) He takes off his clothes, sits naked under the table, and pecks at his food on the floor. The king and queen are horrified that the heir to the throne is acting this way. They call in various sages and healers to try and convince the prince to act human again, but to no avail. Then a new wise man comes to the palace and claims he can cure the prince. He takes off his clothes and sits naked under the table with him, claiming to be a rooster, too. Gradually the prince comes to accept him as a friend. The sage then tells the prince that a rooster can wear clothes, eat at the table, etc. The Rooster Prince accepts this idea and, step-by-step, begins to act normally, until he is completely cured.
--
A Muddy Road:
Tanzan and Ekido were once traveling together down a muddy road. A heavy rain was still falling.
Coming around a bend, they met a lovely girl in a silk kimono and sash, unable to cross the intersection.
"Come on, girl," said Tanzan at once. Lifting her in his arms, he carried her over the mud.
Ekido did not speak again until that night when they reached a lodging temple. Then he no longer could restrain himself. "We monks don't go near females," he told Tanzan, "especially not young and lovely ones. It is dangerous. Why did you do that?"
"I left the girl there," said Tanzan. "Are you still carrying her?"
--
Eating the Blame:
Circumstances arose one day which delayed preparation of the dinner of a Soto Zen master, Fugai, and his followers. In haste the cook went to the garden with his curved knife and cut off the tops of green vegetables, chopped them together, and made soup, unaware that in his haste he had included a part of a snake in the vegetables.
The followers of Fugai thought they had never tasted such great soup. But when the master himself found the snake's head in his bowl, he summoned the cook. "What is this?" he demanded, holding up the head of the snake.
"Oh, thank you, master," replied the cook, taking the morsel and eating it quickly
--
The Six Ungraspables:
A monk once asked Ummon, "What is the Dharma Kaya?" Ummon answered him with "The Six Ungraspables." (The Graspables are the five senses and the mind.)
--
Buridans Ass:
an illustration of a paradox in philosophy in the conception of free will.
It refers to a hypothetical situation wherein an ass that is equally hungry and thirsty is placed precisely midway between a stack of hay and a pail of water. Since the paradox assumes the ass will always go to whichever is closer, it will die of both hunger and thirst since it cannot make any rational decision to choose one over the other.[1] The paradox is named after the 14th century French philosopher Jean Buridan, whose philosophy of moral determinism it satirizes. A common variant of the paradox substitutes two identical piles of hay for the hay and water; the ass, unable to choose between the two, dies of hunger.
--
Who Shaves the Barber:
Suppose there is a town with just one barber, who is male. In this town, every man keeps himself clean-shaven, and he does so by doing exactly one of two things:
    shaving himself; or
    going to the barber.
Another way to state this is that "The barber is a man in town who shaves all those, and only those, men in town who do not shave themselves." From this, asking the question "Who shaves the barber?" results in a paradox because according to the statement above, he can either shave himself, or go to the barber (which happens to be himself). However, neither of these possibilities are valid: they both result in the barber shaving himself, but he cannot do this because he shaves only those men "who do not shave themselves".
--
The Heap:
The sorites paradox sometimes translated as the paradox of the heap because in Ancient Greek: sōritēs means "heap") is a paradox that arises from vague predicates. A typical formulation involves a heap of sand, from which grains are individually removed. Under the assumption that removing a single grain does not turn a heap into a non-heap, the paradox is to consider what happens when the process is repeated enough times: is a single remaining grain still a heap? (Or are even no grains at all a heap?) If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-heap?
--
A Fox, A Rabbit, and A Cabbage:
 A man has a fox, a rabbit and a cabbage, and he wants to get across the river but his boat can only carry two items at a time. The man being one item and a fox, rabbit or cabbage being the second. If left along the fox will kill the rabbit, and the rabbit will eat the cabbage. How can the man get all three items across the river without losing any of them?
The man can only take himself and one other item.
--
Morton's Fork:
An example of Morton's Fork occurs in the Poirot novel Death in the Clouds, in which Poirot sets a trap for the murderer by asking him to dress in disguise as a blackmailer. When the suspect does so with a hapless lack of skill Poirot reasons this was because the murderer was trying to hide the fact that he is actually highly adept at changing his appearance. Yet if the suspect had indeed proved his skill at disguise when asked (rather than dress up with "a false moustache that cries out to heaven, and those ridiculous eyebrows"), it would have alluded equally to his guilt.
--

ok! so the one i'm having the most trouble finding literature on is 'the six ungraspables' so if anyone can help me with that, please do.
the most obvious one is last night's episode in which the agent LITERALLY dictates the concept of 'The Heap'. but before i get into any more speculation on the other episodes, i wanna hear you guys thoughts!

 

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