This could arguably have been the most hyped film of 2002 and for me especially since i am a major fan of Scorsese, but I was very much let down by this film.
The main reason being is that I felt Scorsese was generalizing too much on NYC history and trying to show too much of the history to the point that the original story of leo and day lewis completely faultered. Also, Scorsese's own directing style is not really a right fit for the subject since it is set up as a western but Scorsese does too much filmming like his own style, the style of old classical hollywood where the camera will move in from the top to the bottom to introduce a scene or move really fast toward something when an action has been done. Scorsese's style never really let me be able to fully grasp the old New York and I was wishing for someone like Kurosawa to have tackled the movie. Even though people say Scorsese held back a lot in his own style, he never fully did and never fully accepted what genre of film he was really doing, that being a western film and the basic shooting of the western is the compostion of shots that are not moving in order to build tension and/or show the isolation of the west or feeling of where they are. The love story between dicaprio and diaz was not really needed and even handled in a simple and obvious way that was very reminding of the faults that was of the classical hollywood style in the sense it always needed a love story in its story to attract an adiuence more even if not really needed.
Scorsese is a great director, but this is not a great film. It is a film I would have liked to seen Kurosawa have done during his lifetime instead because Kurosawa has such a patience with his films that he does the very rare act of making normal things astonishing in a film. A director that could have better complemented the times would have been better. Though with Scorsese's next film being The Aviator, you will see him find a story that better fits his style. Though, the screenwriter of Gladiator is writing it, so who knows.
~rougerum
yeah, it sucked...
and what was with those stupid black and white flashback things?? like for example when we see john c reilly as the cop, theres a short shot of him in b&w from the beginning... WE KNOW THEYRE THE SAME GUYS FROM THE BEGINNING! what are we idiots? well... most people are but still
I'm just dreading the wandering accents. It's not quite here yet but an article was of the opinion that everyone's accent was off except Day-Lewis' (could have been a bit of favouritism there). In the trailer Di Caprio's and Diaz's were pretty dodgy. Don't say it's true... what with that and what GT is implying is the heavy-handedness of 'history' (I call it brown), I'm afraid.
I didnt think it was bad as everybody said. Daniel Day Lewis was awesome. Bill the Butcher is the best villian in a long time. I was disgusted by the flashbacks, one to let you know that John C. Rielly was once a dead rabbit, and two that it was done in black and white so we knew it was a flashback. Hope that wasnt Scorsese. About this movie getting held back for so long, what was the alternate ending?
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetThough with Scorsese's next film being The Aviator, you will see him find a story that better fits his style. Though, the screenwriter of Gladiator is writing it, so who knows.
CINESCAPE spoke with Leonardo DiCaprio recently concerning his upcoming role as Howard Hughes in Martin Scorsese's THE AVIATOR, which will focus on the early part of Hughes life – when he was a young, glamorous millionaire who built his fortune on aerospace.
DiCaprio is prepping for the role, he says: "I'm going to watch the rare amount of footage that there is on him. I've already read numerous books and accounts of his life."
So what's distinctive about Hughes, Leo? "He pushed every environment around him to its utter extremes. He was so driven and he was a pioneer in the world of aviation. He was a huge director in Hollywood. He was a womanizer. But more important, as a character study, he was a germaphobe, and he was somebody that was obsessive compulsive."
Leonardo has it made....
But really, is the studio that is funding The Aviator a little skeptical after Gang's performance at the box office? I mean, has there been any talk of it not happening of being scaled back?
Quote from: Duck SauceBut really, is the studio that is funding The Aviator a little skeptical after Gang's performance at the box office? I mean, has there been any talk of it not happening of being scaled back?
Sixth place and $47 million in three weeks (domestic, mind you) is great for a Scorsese film ("Cape Fear", his highest grossing film, topped off at $79.1m), and the box office will only grow as Oscar season approaches. Miramax only funded about half the production costs anyway.
Also:
Leo DiCaprio might have won the battle of the competing Howard Hughes projects, but he may lose the race to get an Alexander the Great project filmed first. Leo's ALEXANDER isn't scheduled to begin filming until fall 2003 after he finishes work on his Howard Hughes biopic THE AVIATOR with Martin Scorsese. But now Warner Bros is closing a deal that would have Oliver Stone's ALEXANDER THE GREAT greenlight for a June start date with Colin Farrell in the starring role. Intermedia (TERMINATOR 3) will finance the majority of the budget, expected to be between $100 and $150 million dollars. Whether Leo ever gets his Baz Luhrmann directed project off the ground remains to be seen. The clear winner in all this is Warner Bros who will release both DiCaprio's AVIATOR, Stone's ALEXANDER, Brad Pitt's TROY and Tom Cruise's THE LAST SAMURAI all likely within a year of each other.
I thought it was really good.
The last hour of that film was worth the price of admission and quite possibly the wait.
As far as the accents... Scorceze said that there was really no accent then... everyone was from a different place, but most had lived in America long enough for the accents to start mixing. So (like Gladiator) the strange accents were intentional.
This may very well be one of the most anticipated movies of all time, atleast among the movie buffs, so it already has that going against it before you even see it.
PROS
- Cinematography, set design, and costume design are all top notch, film really has a theatric feel to it that is never boring. Good Performances, Mr. Day Lewis, god bless the man. The final riot sequence with the shot of New York at the end was amazing.
CONS
Uninvolving father/son revenge story, dull dialogue (why is Steve Zailian the best working screenwriter today?)
- Enjoyed Ms. Diaz's performance, but never understood why she suddenly cares so much for Leo, and it doesn't look like he cares a lot for her, so why have the plotline in there at all?
- One thing I was interested in, or curious about-- Where are the mothers? Is their existence so unimportant to the fate of these young men, a father figure in one's life is what counts? Would like to see what family life was like during that time, but didn't see it.
OVERALL
- Ok, perhaps it's flawed, but what movie isn't? This is still much better than 90% of the crap that is out there. It's definetly worth seeing. Why are people talking about how this is the worst movie of the X-Mas season? I enjoyed it. It sure was great to see a Scorsese movie on the big screen again.
- Side note-- I noticed that visually the film is without the usual Scorsese trademarks (the fast dolly/zoom in, long takes) He did do some interesting cuts in a couple of the battle scenes (I loved the opening scene, w/ the guitar, I thought it was great) Do you think he is trying to move away from his old techniques that are now over-used by many other filmmakers? (PTA?)
Quote from: RegularKarate
As far as the accents... Scorceze said that there was really no accent then... everyone was from a different place, but most had lived in America long enough for the accents to start mixing. So (like Gladiator) the strange accents were intentional.
Thanks RK, you may have allowed me to enjoy it all the more (just read a five star review that calls it a 'flawed masterpiece' too).
Hello, by the way, I'm so glad you haven't jumped ship. :angel:
what i hated was the whole, "America was started in the streets" hype bullshit. looks like gay-fashion was started in the streets would be a more correct thing to say.
Quote from: budgie
Hello, by the way, I'm so glad you haven't jumped ship. :angel:
And hello to you too.
Glad to see you have a lady avitar now, even if it is HB in her Edward Scissorhands look.
One little thing I haven't heard anyone talk about is the cameo by Mr. Scorsese himself. I thought it was pretty hysterical, was the only one in the theater laughing.
Quote from: cbrad4dOne little thing I haven't heard anyone talk about is the cameo by Mr. Scorsese himself. I thought it was pretty hysterical, was the only one in the theater laughing.
Okay, this was something I was wondering... first of all, I don't think I ever SAW him, but he DID do some ADR right? I'm not crazy.
He was the guy at the head table when Diaz was the "maid" at their house. He had some ginormous eyebrows on. Pretty funny.
Quote from: DirkHe was the guy at the head table when Diaz was the "maid" at their house. He had some ginormous eyebrows on. Pretty funny.
scorsese actually does have naturally enormous eyesbrows. unless you already knew that.
Shit, you know, I remember him now, I had just forgotten that part because I kept insisting to my wife that his was the ADRed voice of one of the guys that was explaining citizenship papers to people when they got off the boats.
Quote from: sphinxscorsese actually does have naturally enormous eyesbrows. unless you already knew that.
These seemed a little
too large. Perhaps a second viewing is needed.
I found his eyebrows utterly convincing. But p'raps that was just in the facial hair context of the film.
Really disappointed by the movie, though. Even by DDL in some respect, just because he's been so feted that I was keyed up for a real knockout. His part seemed underwritten, though, and there just wasn't enough of him. I agree with RK that the last hour was more worthwhile... but the only scene that really got me was the knife-throwing one and the follow on, when you really got Bill's theatricality full force.
I blame a bad screenplay and the chop. I would be interested to see the full version, because the whole thing seemed truncated in every sense. Scorsese also seemed reluctant to admit that essentially it was just a good old-fashioned love story in the Gone With The Wind sense, which meant the potential power of that was completely lost. And Leo... fuck he's boring. Bill woulda blown him away (and would certainly have sliced his ears off, that whole build up to how Amsterdam might have been 'disfigured' was ludicrous), and so would Jenny.
My audience was crackling with frustration, though there was the occasional 'ugh!' at the gore. The best thing that happened all night was a bloke yelling 'Orgy!' at the tastefully arranged shot of Bill and his whores. Some hope.
:(
Somebody yelled, "Orgy!" during that scene? It looks like rednecks live on both sides of the Atlantic. Look for "Jackass" to be another huge hit in England.
I can see Brits laughing in frustration mostly from the accents. I thought the "Yanks" did a pretty good job with the Scottish accents, but it probably wouldn't fly in the UK. I'm the same way when I hear an actor/actress fake a Southern accent. Horrible.
I really loved the movie, and it was much better than I thought it would be. I am a history buff, though, and I can see the argument where the story seemed to be in the way of a history class sometimes.
Quote from: PawbloeSomebody yelled, "Orgy!" during that scene? It looks like rednecks live on both sides of the Atlantic. Look for "Jackass" to be another huge hit in England.
I can see Brits laughing in frustration mostly from the accents. I thought the "Yanks" did a pretty good job with the Scottish accents, but it probably wouldn't fly in the UK. I'm the same way when I hear an actor/actress fake a Southern accent. Horrible.
I know what you mean, I hate when actors cant do a accent well. I watched Velvet Goldmine last yesterday, and Ewan McGregors American accent is terrible, I noticed this in Black Hawk Down also, you can totally hear his Scottish accent and it seems like every sentence is him starting to use his native accent and then quickly catching himself and going into the American one.
Although... for some reason, British actresses are really good at American accents...
What was up with the accents in Velvet Goldmine? Was it just me or did the mom from the Sixth Sense keep going between British and American accents?
Quote from: bonanzatazWhat was up with the accents in Velvet Goldmine? Was it just me or did the mom from the Sixth Sense keep going between British and American accents?
Brian Slades wife? Isnt she mentioned as "American _____ turned brittish"? I think its kind of supposed to be like Madonna and adapting that accent.
On second thought of this movie, I realize the movie didnt even have to slow things down. Picking up the pace and making it a high energy film could have worked too if it at least got into the story for the movie but the shame in this film is that it satisfies itself with a mere Hollywood story that shows nothing for the potential of what it could have been when the sets were realized in such a magnificent way. Slowing the film down to a more Kurosawa observance would have been just my choice on how to do the film.
~rougerum
Quote from: Duck SauceQuote from: bonanzatazWhat was up with the accents in Velvet Goldmine? Was it just me or did the mom from the Sixth Sense keep going between British and American accents?
Brian Slades wife? Isnt she mentioned as "American _____ turned brittish"? I think its kind of supposed to be like Madonna and adapting that accent.
Yeah, but she just went in and out. In the same scenes, too. It wasn't like you went through extended periods of time and her accent was different, it was like, the same scene and her accent would go from COMPLETELY british to TOTALLY american. I knew they must have done that on purpose because there's no way any director would just let that slide and whats-her-face is a very talented actress (her name has inexplicably escaped me), so when I was watching it I thought it was interesting, just pretty weird and unexplained.
TONI COLLETTE!
Quote from: PawbloeSomebody yelled, "Orgy!" during that scene? It looks like rednecks live on both sides of the Atlantic. Look for "Jackass" to be another huge hit in England.
I can see Brits laughing in frustration mostly from the accents. I thought the "Yanks" did a pretty good job with the Scottish accents, but it probably wouldn't fly in the UK. I'm the same way when I hear an actor/actress fake a Southern accent. Horrible.
We call them 'lads'. It made me laugh out loud, so I don't know what that makes me... something JB would disapprove of no doubt (adding extra frisson). Laughing at Jackass is an entirely different proposition though.
The audience wasn't laughing, however, it was more a kind of aura of people willing the film to take off. And mutterings. So the orgy yell was to break the tension produced by collective expectation not being met-ness. And even though RK's explanation re the
Irish accents - which I think was right - had prepared me, in the end the wandering didn't bother me. Not like, say, Don Cheadle in Ocean's Eleven. It did all fit with the idea that everything was in transition and no one was really native anything.
i thought the film was pretty good. i would really like to see the original director's cut.
to the history buff,
were any of the characters in the film actual people, or were only the surrounding situations true to history?
i thought the showing of all the whores was a little excessive......it didn't really add anything and none of them were really that hot i don't think
Bill the Butcher was a real life character and very much to the tone of Day Lewis' performance in the movie. The difference being that Bill was actually killed in a gambling house when shot in the heart. The amazing thing is that even that day and time, he survived for 7 days with the bullet literally in his heart and died saying the words, "I'm dying an American."
~rougerum
so let me make sure i get it straight. the butcher was actually born in north america, so he claims he is an american above others who are not born on the continent? during the movie i was thinking this was kind of dumb since his ancestors had to immigrate here just like the others...it would only make sense if he was indian
I finally saw this movie tonight. Better late than never. I was disappointed to see that the film was basically a revenge story. Couldn't the writers have come up with something else? The love story is half-hearted and not entirely convincing. Those are my main complaints about the film. GONY is a good film, but not a great one, and certainly not one of Scorsese's best, which is unfortunate, considering how much time and effort went into it.
I liked Gangs, although it seemed way too drawn out. I'm a big fan of Scorsese, but, I'm beginning to wonder whether he is capable of making a movie that isn't about New York. It's getting old...move on Marty.
Quote from: Pastor ParsleyI'm a big fan of Scorsese, but, I'm beginning to wonder whether he is capable of making a movie that isn't about New York.
Well, gosh, just off the top of my head:
Kundun
Casino
Cape Fear
The Last Temptation of Christ
I'm thinking he's capable....
Damn straight.
And I'm thinking only one of those holds my interest. But I won't say which.
My own personal hierarchy of interest:
Casino
The Last Temptation of Christ
Cape Fear
Kundun
I enjoy all of them.. and I don't feel Scorsese should move onto something else. He has a voice, he knows his history, and he's passionate about the topics.. Would you have told Ingmar Bergman that his spiritual films were getting old? It's the same idea.
I enjoy Cape Fear as entertainment. I like that Marty brought an edge to a commercial film. But I'm of the opinion that if Casino, Kundun, and Christ were lost forever it wouldn't affect humanity in the slightest. They're utterly useless.
Hehehe. I'm 180 degrees...
Cape Fear is the only Marty movie that I don't love with every ounce of my body and soul.
What is it about The Color of Money and Cape Fear that makes them exist on a lower level than movies like Taxi Driver, Raging Bull and Goodfellas?I think they're just as good.
Color Of Money is brilliant.
I just rewatched Cape Fear a month ago, because all you guys seem to like it. All I see is Marty saying "I owe the studio this for helping Last Temptation... I wanna make Age Of Innocence... I need to whore myself so I can get better projects made".
Plus I find the lighting to be so flat and boring.
Basically, all the stuff Marty clearly added (the family disputes, the references to older thrillers, the bits of humor) are great. The cookie-cutter studio commisioned script with its hammy plot points is what I just can't handle.