30 Rock (esteemed winner of the 30 Rock vs. Studio 60 deathmatch)

Started by ono, September 18, 2006, 08:00:42 PM

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Raikus

I like it. Thought the 2nd episode was better than the first. I think Pete is missing that the emphasis on this episode wasn't the characters conflicts with each other, but the conflict with making a successful show. Therefore the personal conflicts were put on the back burner because they all had the first priority of making the show good, not settling their quibbles.

This is a quick switching of gears. Everyone thinks of Sorkin's shows as quick-paced, high-octane, witty remark, quick edits. Mostly because that's what Sports Night was modeled after and what the first few episodes of West Wing was. When Sorkin is at his best it's when the show itself finds its groove and the pacing is nice and smooth. West Wing was like this. The best episodes were once it settled. I think he's realized this and immediatly switch the gear from the pilot (Sports Night pacing) to the 2nd ep.

Basically if you buy the concept of an institution or a show being worthy of higher dedication than a person or people you'll "get" this show. If you're just looking for character conflicts then pass and watch Lost*.

*Not a bash on Lost, just a comparison of shows.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands, with all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves, let me forget about today until tomorrow.

pete

I wasn't the only person who thought it was bad.  I don't really have a character conflict fetish, it just happened to be all I saw--contrived beef.  you're missing that my emphasis was about how everything felt so artificial, with self-grandeur sprinkled all over it.
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

modage

but its not like this really showed a lot of insight into how a show like this gets made.  it was like TUESDAY: blank board.  how are we gonna fill this show?! cut to FRIDAY: show night.  "that was the best dress rehearsal ever!" wow, really?  thanks for shedding so much light on the creative process.  so i would argue that the show is indeed about the characters, and not the show they're producing.  also: at some point the cast of the show within this show is going to need to prove to us they are indeed funny by showing us the actual sketch comedy especially if they expect us to believe the show is turning around.  and as far as LOST goes, believe whatever about the direction the show has taken over 2 seasons, if you are comparing the first 2 hours of drama against each other Studio 60 is a snorefest. 
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

Raikus

It just feels like you guys want too much too fast. The concerns you've mentioned are really picky. This isn't a doc or a "how the show is made." It's an hour long show that probably plans on being on for a few seasons. Having it unfold chronologically with how everything works and all would make a really bad show.

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll have entire episodes devoted to how it works and the smaller players that are involved. I think that's called "material."

And again, Lost was brought up to contrast the character/plot driven show verses the character/idealism driven show. I metioned it just to point our HOW DIFFERENT the two are. But compare whatever you'd like. Personally, I choose to group the "deus ex machina" shows together and separate them from the vocational based ones.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands, with all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves, let me forget about today until tomorrow.

pete

it's not "us guys", it's the show.  but yeah, what you call idealism I call self-importance; an empty macguffin to justify all the "important" camera moves and humorless "witty" banters.  dude's a prick, then he's not, bam, that's some idealism right there.
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

grand theft sparrow

Quote from: modage on September 26, 2006, 10:54:05 AM
and as far as LOST goes, believe whatever about the direction the show has taken over 2 seasons, if you are comparing the first 2 hours of drama against each other Studio 60 is a snorefest.

If you compare the first 2 hours of Lost to LITERALLY ANY hour-long drama that has EVER been on TV, they're all snorefests.  Lost's pilot was better than movies that cost 10 times that what it cost.  You can't compare everything to Lost because everything will fail.  

I'm very satisfied with the show.  Raikus is right.  Dumping everything about what it's like to work on a variety show is simply too much to get into in one episode.  They could do that but then the complaint for the rest of the season would be, "We've seen this already."  They work for a weekly live variety show; week after week, we're going to see more and more of that process.  Plus, to have their first show run smoothly was great.  If it didn't, we'd think they were no-talent hacks and we wouldn't trust in the characters' talent.  Asking Aaron Sorkin to write this show and then write the show on the show is too much to do, so he showed us in a very efficient way that Perry and Whitford aren't idiots.

I understand Pete's point about "Why don't we just read Live From New York instead?" but seeing a network TV fictionalization of something like that is either going to be interesting to you or it's not, no matter who does it.

polkablues

Quote from: luckysparrow on September 26, 2006, 12:29:06 PM
Quote from: modage on September 26, 2006, 10:54:05 AM
and as far as LOST goes, believe whatever about the direction the show has taken over 2 seasons, if you are comparing the first 2 hours of drama against each other Studio 60 is a snorefest.

If you compare the first 2 hours of Lost to LITERALLY ANY hour-long drama that has EVER been on TV, they're all snorefests.  Lost's pilot was better than movies that cost 10 times that what it cost.  You can't compare everything to Lost because everything will fail. 

You are a wise, wise man.

This is a good show.  That's all it is, and that's all it needs to be.  Not every show can be the best show on television. 
My house, my rules, my coffee

modage

as long as we're all in agreement.  :yabbse-grin:
Christopher Nolan's directive was clear to everyone in the cast and crew: Use CGI only as a last resort.

SiliasRuby

There are some moments in the TV show I could do without, but I'm very impressed with the show. The second episode was better than the first and I hope for more of the same great writing.
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There was a FISH in the perkalater!!!

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bonanzataz

SNOOZEFEST!

they should call this show brood-io pissed me off on the sunset i'm going to sleep! aaaaaaahahahahaa.

but seriously. this show is booooooooooring.
The corpses all hang headless and limp bodies with no surprises and the blood drains down like devil's rain we'll bathe tonight I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls Demon I am and face I peel to see your skin turned inside out, 'cause gotta have you on my wall gotta have you on my wall, 'cause I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls collect the heads of little girls and put 'em on my wall hack the heads off little girls and put 'em on my wall I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls

RegularKarate

I neither hate it nor love it... it entertains me enough to watch it though.

I think this show is like that kid in highschool that wears an ascot and seems really pretentious.  He's a nice guy and kind of funny to be around, but when he leaves all anyone can talk about is how smug and full of himself he is... if you really thought about it though, you go to highschool with a bunch of retards, I could see how he could get it in his head that he's better than most of him.  It doesn't bother me that he's all full of himself, he's a relatively nice guy, he's just got that dumb ascot.

polkablues

Quote from: RegularKarate on September 27, 2006, 02:27:56 PM
I think this show is like that kid in highschool that wears an ascot and seems really pretentious.  He's a nice guy and kind of funny to be around, but when he leaves all anyone can talk about is how smug and full of himself he is... if you really thought about it though, you go to highschool with a bunch of retards, I could see how he could get it in his head that he's better than most of him.  It doesn't bother me that he's all full of himself, he's a relatively nice guy, he's just got that dumb ascot.

I have a feeling that you've just described Aaron Sorkin exactly.
My house, my rules, my coffee

MacGuffin

'Studio 60' and Strangely Familiar Writing
Source: EW

Aaron Sorkin is more than your average TV writer. So naturally, he's going to get more than your average amount of scrutiny. Especially if his new show's chosen milieu is the notoriously persnickety world of comedy. In the nerve center of New York's underground theater scene, the boards are abuzz: Studio 60, the rumblings rumble, is tone-deaf when it comes to the actual business of making people laugh. (Though I suppose the same could be said of its ur-text, Saturday Night Live.)

Ah, but there's more: Some of the more gimlet-eyed laughologists have noted certain, um, resonances: For instance, there's this evidence of a suspected repetition of Sorkin's Sorkinese (plucked from a private, unlinkable board):

Sports Night, 4/27/1999
Dana Whitaker (Felicity Huffman): [barges in] You are a sleazy, slimy, adolescent, over-sexed, overpaid blowhole!

Studio 60, ''Cold Open,'' 9/25/2006
Harriet Hayes (Sarah Paulson): [barges in] You are an adolescent, over-sexed, whoremonger with the sensitivity of a head of cabbage.

To be fair: First off, ''head of cabbage'' is clearly a post-9/11 reference, right? Second, if you're going to steal from anyone, steal from yourself, says I. Ah, but that's not the most interesting echo from the past.

You may recall that Sorkin hired Mark McKinney, late of Kids in the Hall and SNL, to oversee the sketch comedy on the show-within-the-show. (He's listed as a story editor on ''Cold Open.'') Well, last episode featured a repurposing of Gilbert and Sullivan's 'The Major-General's Song.' (''I am the very model of a modern Major-General,'' etc.) Now it just so happens that SNL did the very same act on January 21, 1995, during McKinney's stint on the show. The host was David Hyde Pierce. (''I'm hosting Saturday Night Live, I'm nervous, I've got shaky knees/ I love the show, although I haven't watched it since the '70s.'')

Coincidence? Probably not. Nefarious? Hardly. But it'll be awfully fascinating to track which SNL moments Sorkin and McKinney plunder pay homage to next. No pressure, guys, but there are, like, a million hungry comedians watching you. And they have loooooooong memories.
"Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art." - Andy Warhol


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ProgWRX

I wonder when Sorkin is *really* going to put McKinney to use. I really liked this third episode, but still the show within the show (the "live" Studio60) still aint too funny.

-Carlos

RegularKarate

nah.. third episode pretty much sold me on it not being worth my time.
I might watch it when I've got nothing else going on, but while this could have gotten better, it got worse.

Why does the christian girl act like she's some kind of misunderstood opressed minority?